Defining God/s.

[Habitat]

8 hours ago, Essan said:

We're all very special .....  Until we peer into the total perspective vortex.  Which can be, shall we say, rather humbling for some.   One of the purposes of religion is to prevent us from doing so.  It's sometimes safer.

For all we know, there may be nothing else like us in all "creation". I was half-joking saying we are special, but that word doesn't have to mean conceited, as when people talk sarcastically of others ego-inflation.

[Wes83]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Who are you that a supposed infinite being would even care about? 

Indeed, I don’t claim that that being does care about us one way or the other except in our expressions and variety of lives and experiences we provide... our individual outcomes are trivial I imagine.

[Wes83]

3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, that's your opinion that there is a purpose in what we were created for. My opinion is that there is a big chance we were to come to our existence to natural situations. I can see how I come by my outlook. 

Are you trying to use this as evidence of the divine creating our existence? I wouldn't look at this as such, if that was the case. Using the thought that 'maybe' we're here because of something you think, is not a word to show it's proof that we are. Maybe?! You see, to me, it sounds like you're not too sure. 

And if you think we're being mislead, wouldn't the divine make sure we weren't? 

You see, too much contamination in your in the situations to show that there is no way of knowing for sure if we're divinely created or naturally came to be. 

What I see, is you basing the unknowing and the mysteries as proof and using that to say we should believe we were divinely created. How would you know for sure, if you can't show a true possible proof or evidence and instead using mystery and assumptions that they themselves show for sure. Definitely, not in the objective manner, that is. 

I don’t care what you believe honestly, not too sure you have much control over that either.  I am sharing my beliefs knowing I can not prove it to you. I’m as sure as the next guy I’m right though.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Wes83 said:

Indeed, I don’t claim that that being does care about us one way or the other except in our expressions and variety of lives and experiences we provide... our individual outcomes are trivial I imagine.

I don't disagree. I just find it egotistical of people to think a God of all things has any human qualities and cares at all. Unless that God is man-made.

[Wes83]

Just now, XenoFish said:

I don't disagree. I just find it egotistical of people to think a God of all things has any human qualities and cares at all. Unless that God is man-made.

I do wonder how much control we have over our own situations though... you can look at creation however you want, divinely inspired or just a fluke and we are the blokes left scratching our heads. 

Maybe one theory is right and the other isn’t. Maybe both sides are programmed to defend those positions. Maybe some are required to change over. Maybe we are truly free giving the infinite possibilities I speculate must be manifested as set in motion from separation of light and darkness.

nothing matters, yet we can walk around with the weight of the world on our shoulders. Maybe everything matters, but not the way we think it should. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, Wes83 said:

I do wonder how much control we have over our own situations though... you can look at creation however you want, divinely inspired or just a fluke and we are the blokes left scratching our heads. 

Maybe one theory is right and the other isn’t. Maybe both sides are programmed to defend those positions. Maybe some are required to change over. Maybe we are truly free giving the infinite possibilities I speculate must be manifested as set in motion from separation of light and darkness.

nothing matters, yet we can walk around with the weight of the world on our shoulders. Maybe everything matters, but not the way we think it should. 

Maybe we're dealing with potential, probability, possibility, habits, and intentional actions 24/7 while creating our own self-fulfilling prophecies. We literally write the story of our lives and can write our lives in the future tense. Programming wishes and desires into our subconscious that run as background programs, which simply change our focus and mindset. 

From personal experience (not that it matters much) creating a feedback loop of depression, causes the world to appear quite bleak. It is the subjective view and objective actions that matter the most. 

[Wes83]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe we're dealing with potential, probability, possibility, habits, and intentional actions 24/7 while creating our own self-fulfilling prophecies. We literally write the story of our lives and can write our lives in the future tense. Programming wishes and desires into our subconscious that run as background programs, which simply change our focus and mindset. 

From personal experience (not that it matters much) creating a feedback loop of depression, causes the world to appear quite bleak. It is the subjective view and objective actions that matter the most. 

I’m just sharing my personal conclusions, and they matter not at all in the grand scheme of things. These beliefs bring me peace where organized religion has failed me due to my developed lack of faith in anything anyone has to say.

i went deep in some rabbit holes searching and finally started searching myself.

i take a lot from Buddhism, but I can’t claim that path. 

Hell, sometimes I wonder if time isn’t linear but all of our realities are intertwined in infinite combinations of ever changing ever presenting dimensions. Last left turn I made, what if I had turned right, is that whole option being played out with someone else’s universe that just happened to bump into me when I turned a different way? And for a brief moment do we share a dimension before quickly scurrying off into different worlds? What if I ask that person to join me for coffee and ended up marrying that incidental bump in another reality? All the whole I’m still in this reality where I took the right turn and none of this happened. Maybe every time I wondered why that car crash didn’t kill me in this reality, it did in another for everyone I know?

maybe all options and possibility are already present and we try to navigate them blindly not knowing which way will bring us the life we desire. That’s my deranged musings lately.

what I know is that I am responsible for my own thought and general well being. I delegate my mood to a large degree. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. That phrase has grown on me over the years. I hear it in my mind when someone tells me something completely preposterous and can laugh now.

Creator, for me probably. Does it care about the details of our life? Doubtful? If that creator is the stuff we are made of and we are surrounded by others of its creation fulfilling its desire to manifest all possibilities. But what of our suffering? would it care if it were experiencing all possibilities at once and your suffering completed its requirements?

[Habitat]

35 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Asking for evidence is no different than asking a question. If you respond that "It's a personal belief" I don't think anyone cares. But you make claims of objective proof, well, we want to see it.

Who made claims of "objective proof" ? Not me. But if you want "proof" of God, it seems you have to qualify first, people who want admission to the "holy of holies" by a free pass, seem not to gain entry. I guess if you have to pay to enter most things these days, it should not surprise even if "paying" in this sense, is paying due regard.

[XenoFish]

14 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Who made claims of "objective proof" ? Not me. But if you want "proof" of God, it seems you have to qualify first, people who want admission to the "holy of holies" by a free pass, seem not to gain entry. I guess if you have to pay to enter most things these days, it should not surprise even if "paying" in this sense, is paying due regard.

Don't throw your back out dig yourself into a hole. You apparently haven't been following the conversation, don't care, or you want to take the special ed high ground. 

[Will Due]

6 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

burning coals

 

Propane is better.

 

 

[Wes83]

5 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, that's your opinion that there is a purpose in what we were created for. My opinion is that there is a big chance we were to come to our existence to natural situations. I can see how I come by my outlook. 

Are you trying to use this as evidence of the divine creating our existence? I wouldn't look at this as such, if that was the case. Using the thought that 'maybe' we're here because of something you think, is not a word to show it's proof that we are. Maybe?! You see, to me, it sounds like you're not too sure. 

And if you think we're being mislead, wouldn't the divine make sure we weren't? 

You see, too much contamination in your in the situations to show that there is no way of knowing for sure if we're divinely created or naturally came to be. 

What I see, is you basing the unknowing and the mysteries as proof and using that to say we should believe we were divinely created. How would you know for sure, if you can't show a true possible proof or evidence and instead using mystery and assumptions that they themselves show for sure. Definitely, not in the objective manner, that is. 

I see, I see. You expect that I should provide you the proofs for a god that I would have you believe in? Or even for you to consider a god that I might  believe in you need my proofs up front?

thats respectable, all I can say is I don’t care what you believe in or don’t believe in. If one can contemplate all of creation and all of known history and come to the conclusion we we have not been created but pooped out by a universe that has also not been created, that is your path.

i hope you walk it with all the joy it brings!

So what do you believe, I don’t want to miss an opportunity to grow. Big Bang?  Explain that to me? I overlooked the entire theory as I considered it absurd from the top. How does that work out?

[Wes83]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Who made claims of "objective proof" ? Not me. But if you want "proof" of God, it seems you have to qualify first, people who want admission to the "holy of holies" by a free pass, seem not to gain entry. I guess if you have to pay to enter most things these days, it should not surprise even if "paying" in this sense, is paying due regard.

Must they qualify or is there path predetermined? Do they have a choice in the matter? It’s easy for me to believe I did, but I still wonder. 

 

[Habitat]

Just now, Wes83 said:

Must they qualify or is there path predetermined? Do they have a choice in the matter? It’s easy for me to believe I did, but I still wonder. 

 

In all such mysteries, it seems best to make a minimum of assumptions, but I see a strong ego involvement in demands that the "absolute" reveal itself for inspection, this is wilfulness of an extreme kind.

[Dejarma]

yeah, i'll have a go at defining it:

lies & BS to keep the easily led under control 

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

yeah, i'll have a go at defining it:

lies & BS to keep the easily led under control 

You weren't fooled by these people jarmy, you canny old devil, but you may well have fooled yourself by thinking there is nothing but emptiness in what you were told.

[Habitat]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

From personal experience (not that it matters much) creating a feedback loop of depression, causes the world to appear quite bleak. It is the subjective view and objective actions that matter the most. 

Whilst you are usually at pains to emphasise the primacy of reliance on demonstrable, external truth, you are now admitting that it is the inner processes that determine outlook, not whatever actually may be the case, externally ? How can you reconcile all that ?

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You weren't fooled by these people jarmy, you canny old devil, but you may well have fooled yourself by thinking there is nothing but emptiness in what you were told.

yep, I may well have been- you're not wrong...

Therefore I must ask (via god's logic) the cliché bleeding obvious question:

why did god make me an atheist?

Please don't reply with: 'well god works in mysteries ways' because rationally that would be a disrespectful reply.

Having said that; I've used a cliché so I guess (just out of respect) I should allow one back== oh joy, what fun- next?

[Habitat]

4 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

yep, I may well have been- you're not wrong...

Therefore I must ask (via god's logic) the cliché bleeding obvious question:

why did god make me an atheist?

Please don't reply with: 'well god works in mysteries ways' because rationally that would be a disrespectful reply.

Having said that; I've used a cliché so I guess (just out of respect) I should allow one back== oh joy, what fun- next?

I don't know about God making you an atheist, that would be an abandonment of your having the freedom to exercise choice and volition, for all I know we may be in a school for trainee Gods, and we show our aptitude for the job by our thought and action, but possibly more the former. We may even graduate to a partnership in the "firm", a bit like Megan Markle becoming a Royal. Or perhaps not so much.

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

for all I know

which is of course nothing with regards to facts...

I'll put forward a scenario if I may:

you're an artist/ painter omnipotent god.

You want everyone to fall at their knees praising your work= who wouldn't?

You have the power to do this but you don't-- why? Just out of interest...

[Habitat]

5 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

which is of course nothing with regards to facts...

I'll put forward a scenario if I may:

you're an artist/ painter omnipotent god.

You want everyone to fall at their knees praising your work= who wouldn't?

You have the power to do this but you don't-- why? Just out of interest...

That sounds like a projection of human egotism.

[onlookerofmayhem]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

you're an artist/ painter omnipotent god.

You want everyone to fall at their knees praising your work= who wouldn't?

And isn't that exactly what most religions teach? 

That god is to be worshipped and praised and exalted?

If any god wants me to know it exists, I would.

It would be obvious. It would be overt.

There is a funny meme where bigfoot is pronounced as the "Hide and Go Seek Champion."

Personally my vote goes to god.

[Dejarma]

Just now, Habitat said:

That sounds like a projection of human egotism.

no, i'm projection this so called god's egotism you have faith in!!  answer the question

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

no, i'm projection this so called god's egotism you have faith in!!  answer the question

I don't talk about faith in god, and I certainly do not attribute egotism to whatever God may be. That is your doing.

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

And isn't that exactly what most religions teach? 

That god is to be worshipped and praised and exalted?

If any god wants me to know it exists, I would.

It would be obvious. It would be overt.

There is a funny meme where bigfoot is pronounced as the "Hide and Go Seek Champion."

Personally my vote goes to god.

nope you've lost me there all due respect.... what vote?

[Dejarma]

Just now, Habitat said:

I don't talk about faith in god, and I certainly do not attribute egotism to whatever God may be. That is your doing.

answer the question.. here it is again:

you're an artist/ painter omnipotent god.

You want everyone to fall at their knees praising your work= who wouldn't?

You have the power to do this but you don't-- why?