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Still Waters

City offers prize for proof it doesn’t exist

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Still Waters

A German city which has been the subject of a long-running and light-hearted conspiracy theory claiming it does not really exist is offering big bucks to anyone who can prove it.

Officials in Bielefeld said they will give one million euros (£915,000) to the person who delivers solid proof of its non-existence.

They said there are “no limits to creativity” for entrants, but only undeniable evidence will qualify for the prize.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-08-21/german-city-offers-a-million-euros-for-proof-that-it-doesnt-exist/

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acute

I've never heard of the place, so proving it doesn't exist shouldn't be difficult.

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)

How can you prove that a place doesn't exist ? 

Still, you've got to admire the sense of humour of the Mayor :) 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Essan

You cannot prove a negative.   Thus, it's like being asked to prove that Fallallalla B'Ing Toppit is not the capital city of T'songasongaland.

But, by analogy, since there is no evidence Fallallalla B'Ing Toppit or T'songasongaland  exist, one can reasonably conclude that, likewise, Bielefeld - since it apparently exists only in the sense of a place we are asked to disprove the existence of - must also be wholly imaginary.  

This does, however, also mean that the inhabitants of Bielefeld do not exist either.   And whilst one may well imagine one million euros, a figment of the imagination cannot be spent.  

In other worlds, if Bielefeld does not exist, neither does the reward for proving it does not exist.   Damn ..... :(

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third_eye
26 minutes ago, Essan said:

In other worlds, if Bielefeld does not exist, neither does the reward for proving it does not exist.   Damn ..... :(

Quote of the month :tu:

~

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Habitat

German humour is different. Quite different. You have to be a German to understand it, I have some German genes, but clearly not enough for this purpose.

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freetoroam
Quote

The idea that Bielefeld does not exist was first floated by computer expert Achim Held, who posted the satirical claim on the internet in 1994 in an effort to poke fun at online conspiracy theories.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-08-21/german-city-offers-a-million-euros-for-proof-that-it-doesnt-exist/

Let them have their fun this time round, cos they will not be getting any prizes.

 

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It's Just An Opinion

 If a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound, yes. but if there is no'one to perceive it happening. That sound is only imaginary. only through multiple other events exchanging hands while being perceived cant that tree falling become a reality when it reaches your awareness. without the exchange of actions that let to you hear that news, without those actions being perceived by a sentient entity. it's all just a figment of the imagination. reality is a concept. A concept based on personal perception. 

Take every sentient creature out of it, and its existence is merely imaginary without a consciousness to perceive it.

without a sentient entity to perceive a photo from space, without a sentient bird to retrieve twigs from that town. without a sentient onlooker to perceive its existence it seizes to be from "reality" and becomes merely imaginary. 

Before you try to argue that reality is real because its (real)lity. I've already disproved that, the five senses and that the fact that multiple people perceive it similarly is not proof of reality: 

I call it [The Concept of Reality] 

The fact that multiple people experiencing reality the same is not proof of reality, because everyone dreams the same way aswell. If one man is standing on the feet of another man in space one may claim that above them is ‘’up’’ and the astronaut standing facing the opposite direction may claim the same. Despite it may appear to be ‘’down’’ to each other. Neither are right because reality is like direction it’s a concept created by man based on perception.

Reality was made so people within their box minded world can point at one thing and claim it to be ‘’real’’ with the contrast of something they can say is false. Even if 20 astronauts were claiming the same direction was up and only one was saying the opposite was up, majority simply doesn’t make wrong-right, direction like reality is based on personal perception.

Now I’ve explained how the number of people perceiving reality a certain way has nothing to do with whether or not it’s real. (if a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound? yes but if no’one is there to witness it fall nor hear it then isn’t that sound imaginary?)

Now allow me to explain why the 5 senses are NOT proof of reality either. The human brain can be manipulated to make you deluded to think you are experiencing these five senses. The brain can trick the mind in perceiving as if you are Hearing, Tasting, Seeing, Smelling or Touching. Dreams are an example of this.

However there is one thing that you can be positive that is real (the present thought in your mind) The human mind is extremely powerful, [Mind over matter] powerful.

It’s called manifestation. A classic scientific example of this is the Placebo effect on sugar pills. Even though a patient is given a pill that has nothing to benefit them, their belief that it does heals what they thought it was so-post to treat, because the mind manipulated the outcome into reality. Even if something isn’t real if you believe in it your mind has the power to alter it into becoming.

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If you had the technology to make an AI intelligent enough to be sentient. The moment it accepted itself as an existence it would deny you from being real.
And from its perspective, it wouldn’t be wrong.
but this isn’t a literal theory, more like a figurative allegory, because technology itself could never reach that point.

Speaking of technology: A ruler can’t measure something larger than itself, but it takes sentience to be stupid enough to deny the existence beyond your capabilities total length of measurement.

We will never know everything, or create some sort of search engine that has the answer to every question. Nor will we ever create some tool that is able to measure everything and determine if its real or fake.

Yet knowing that as common sense, we still stubbornly think that if we cant prove something with our knowledge and our instruments, if we cant replicate it, that it must not be real.

Stupidity, ignorance, denial, fear. You don’t want to believe. when you have external evidence but claim it all as a coincidence because your instruments are insufficient of proving things you don’t want to accept to begin with.

Don’t get me wrong i’m not on the religious side of the coin nor on the scientific side. That’s why I coined ‘‘The Coin of Denial’’ which is explained bellow.

[The Religious see some miracle, but the moment they begin to get a scientific explanation they leave the topic and tell themselves that even if there is a scientific explanation that too was made by their god. They just don’t know how their god did it yet.]

[The Scientific see something that defies their every explanation. Instead of even considering the supernatural. They simply label it as a coincidence throw it over their heads with blind faith that there is a scientific explanation but they just haven’t proved it yet.]

If you are inside a closed box, your perspective is limited. What you call ‘‘reality’’ is merely what you can perceive from within this box. Your denial of the existence outside the box isn’t due to an inability to stand up, but refusing to do so.

but being stupid isn’t a reason to be sad, when we are at the very bottom of sentience we can only move up.

Anyways shoving our heads in our ass and working to save money won’t magically solve the worlds problems some day. No matter how much we justify that we need it to keep supporting the excessive procreation: since everyone has unspokenly accepted our inevitable extinction. So most just do as they always have, some will do crazy things with disregard to the environment, and most will plain not see it coming either from ignorance or denial.

People will say that ^^^ is just an excuse to be lazy, but i don’t need an excuse to do that. I didn’t agree to be born in order to be enslaved into a life of labor to be able to purchase the necessities of life. I’m here to have fun.

I feel like i lost my point- (there are too many) -so I scrolled and picked one at the top to see what i was talking about then. I guess my point is that even though your opinions are real, your reality is still just a concept. In other words opinions are absolute there is no false opinion, but reality is and will always be a concept based on subjective perspective; That’s a fact, Irrelevant of your opinion. but i guess nobody wants to hear that, just like nobody would like to be told they aren’t real.

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Plants aren’t self aware that they exist.
Between a consciousness itself without a body, or an organism like a plant with just physical form, which could thrive anywhere?
That’s a rhetorical question, a consciousness.

Common sense: If you need proof that physical life could exist elsewhere in space, you are the proof. If you need proof that your consciousness exists, your self awareness is that proof. Irrelevant of how short your instruments fail from proving it.
Common sense alone should be able to deduce that a consciousness can exist without a body when a body can exist without a consciousness. The physical minds perception has no dictation over it’s supernatural form; that which is its consciousness.

Perhaps there is a lot of intelligent life but if you keep looking for physical forms of it you’ll overlook the metaphysical forms.

Then again, science believes that the consciousness isn’t ‘‘real’’
Yet you are self aware irrelevant of whether or not you have physical proof.

What is ‘‘reality’’? but subjective perception. The brain and mind need outside stimuli to conjure up a thought, but the consciousness does not, it creates its thought.

This just reminded me of the ‘‘21 grams experiment’’ So now I think the consciousness and the soul are the same thing.

Maybe there are different types of plains of existence, one for physical matter, and one where only a consciousness can go, and we’ll keep reincarnating in this physical plain until we find a way to go to that one which only a consciousness can thrive. Life is merely a temporary perception through the mind of a biological organism.

The physical is likely the lowest form of existence, the flesh is like an egg to cultivate the soul. You get infinite amount of tries until your consciousness is nurtured the minimum amount necessary to move to a higher plain.

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Why did so many ancient civilizations believe in gods? and why did many of those gods share similarities despite they were vast distances apart with no way to make contact with each other and spread that info?

You could say it’s because that’s the only way they could interpret natural phenomenons due to their lack of knowledge. Fair enough, but then again. How did all of them build all that they did, and how did they have knowledge of celestial bodies that would require telescopes to see?

1.) Dreamt it?

2.) Perhaps used to live there?

3.) Or maybe that knowledge was given to them?
‘‘it’s that easy!!!’’

Either way those three above would never publicly be given a second thought by the ‘‘realistic’’ scientist. To them it’s much more probable and easy to believe that it was all lucky guesses.
Or even better, here’s a scientifically realistic answer: ¯_(ツ)_/¯ ‘‘It’s just a coincidence’’

Proceed to shove your heads in your ass in denial and continue to earn those paychecks for being a ‘‘proper’’ scientist who follows the conformative standards of what you are allowed to think.

Irrelevant of your short comings of replicating the evidence. It’s reasonable not to believe in something because you lack proof, but it’s denial to claim everything as a coincidence because you think it’s irrational to believe in what the evidence proves.

It’s not even like you don’t know how to explain what they did, that part is common sense.
(You get the term: ‘‘draw me a picture’’) It’s self explanatory. You don’t need rocket science or philosophy or even eyesight !!!They engraved it in stone.

You all know exactly how they got the knowledge to do what they did. You just refuse to accept it, because it scares the **** out of you.

but it’s completely okay to be afraid, but don’t let your fear turn into denial, that won’t do you any good.

Intelligent ‘‘lifeforms’’ whether they be a higher dimensional entity, or a physical one, a lot of them simply had enough of your **** and left.

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‘‘Gods’’ ‘‘Demons’’ those are just names they are simply higher dimensional entities. They are neither totally good nor totally evil just like people they have an entire spectrum of emotions, no ours are more limited their emotions are way broader than ours are like a mere hazy reflection where theirs are like a light.

The only reason they get labeled as a god or a demon has to do with the concept of morality created by man. All morality created was immorality things always were what they are morality simply gave the illusion separating right from wrong. ‘‘gods’’ or ‘‘demons’’ don’t do ‘‘right’’ or ‘‘wrong’’ they just do what they do, if any opinion had to be placed on their actions it would be to claim everything they do is correct we simply lack the perception to see why what they did was correct. Those in a higher dimension can alter the lower ones without those in the lower dimension seeing them we just see what their actions cause.

‘‘Ghosts’’ ‘‘Souls’’ are just ways to interpret a consciousness without a body. [why is it not a higher dimensional entity?] because it’s still within this dimension.
A soul/consciousness/ghost whatever you wanna call it is capable of ascending dimensions because it can survive light speed. Of course this wouldn’t be easy and they would need outside help.

As for all other intelligent ‘‘lifeforms’’ that are physical whether they are terrestrial or not. If they are sentient, they can manipulate the physical matter around them. via manifestation that’s like a manipulation of outcomes you could say it manipulates fate itself.

It’s like a game of tetris that your perception has unique pieces. Some things you can only notice based on how other things were noticed, its hard to explain.

I have experienced ‘‘gods’’ I have seen ‘‘ghosts’’ and I believe in ‘‘aliens’’ I’ve experienced too much beyond the point of throwing it over my head and neglecting it and i’d rather acknowledge it knowing it’s the right than conform knowing it’s wrong. Irrelevant of how crazy it sounds.

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Irrelevant of what people choose to believe is the cause of our existence. One fact remains consistent, we existed. We cannot prove what lead to our existence and we possibly never will irrelevant of how much speculation. (Some things are currently beyond our understanding: That is something we don’t like to accept.)

Irrelevant of what we choose to believe one fact remains, we will perish. But from the unknown we sprang and to the unknown we return. So that in itself should be comfort or reasonable acceptance for anyone to believe that irrelevant of what happens something else somewhere somehow will continue. Not in a sense of what we leave behind but in a sense of the self. Our sentience. Our consciousness that we cant prove exists, yet nobody questions its reality. Because we are hypocrites and choose to throw our concepts such as ‘’proof of existence’’ and ‘’reality’’ only on what we can comprehend the circumference of. Even if we have to fabricate our own limits to those things in order to believe we have some sense of understanding or control over it.

There are so many things that can only be discovered elsewhere, and There are so many things we haven’t discovered here. Wisdom is being able to accept there will always be more things you don’t know, than things you do. Knowledge is knowing that you will never be able to explain nor prove everything. Intelligence is knowing that just because you can’t perceive nor prove something doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

There is so much more to discover than what we know, and the limitations of things if there are any are far beyond our understanding. The only ones we see are those we set upon ourselves and. The only limitations are those we set upon ourselves. We can never comprehend our consciousness the way we are now with our minds limited functionality. A brain working at 100% likely wouldn’t be able to either. Our minds are like a USB and our consciousness is like a supercomputer. so the limit of what the consciousness is capable of is beyond us, that is if there even is one. (the limit, not the self)

There are always more things to discovery. The unknown will always outnumber how much we understand. Existence, non existence, real unreal, Possible not possible. Those things are just concepts created by man so it has some sense of control. So our small minds can comprehend things. But what we know is a fraction of a fraction of what there is to be known. That is common sense the unknown will always outweigh the known. We need our creativity our sense of wonder to be able to discover new frontiers. You cant accomplish something without attempting it, and you cant attempt at it if you’ve never dreamt about it. without the wonder and drive of creativity nothing will be discovered.

Even if people stopped dying, even if all of the resources of this planet replenishes themselves completely, even if the sun doesn’t burn out. Even if we don’t crash into another star or get hurled into a black hole when this galaxy collides with another. Something else will happen that will lead to our end. The point is that our unspoken goal for immortality is futile. Just from how little we know we see that. Which leads me to believe that if we learned how to overcome the inevitable doom we see it would only open our eyes to another catastrophe. That is because every end has a beginning and every beginning has an end…

We shouldn’t fear the inevitable. After all there was a time that we were not and now we are. And that alone is reason to be leave that we’ll be again. even when our lives end. The fact that we were able to experience all of it makes up for everything in the end. The known and the unknown. The explainable and the unexplained.

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Reality is a construct based on opinion. opinion is based on subjective perception. You created the concept of ‘‘reality’’ so you can point at one thing and claim it to be real to have the contrast to point at another thing and claim it to be false; The difference between real and ‘‘in your head’’ is like the line between blue and red. It exists if you choose to perceive it.

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They say ‘‘every action must have an equal and/or opposite reaction’’ That is true But for this universe to have started then something must have happened to trigger it. If nothing happened then it could never have began. either-way this process would escalate so that even if something did happen it would require something to trigger even That before that to trigger that thing aswell.

So i think like an eye it doesn’t show you what you are seeing, it takes an image processes it flips it, and shows it to you the way your vision perceives it. So if this universe exists it can only be the byproduct of the end of another one. thous ‘‘energy cant be created nor destroyed only rearranged’’

But even the other one would require some explanation to how that too began.

However the mind is just energy impulses going from here to there, and the brain filters it and shows us what to think based on how it manipulates our perception, the same way the eye does our vision. That made me think that the mind can still exists without a brain.

The mind doesn’t fallow Newton’s third law because it can generate thought without influence of any of the five senses.

Is it truly reasonable for us as a species to believe we can prove all there is to existence much less perceive everything with our perception, and if we can’t prove something despite recurring evidence; isn’t it denial to claim it to be false simply because you think it irrational to believe in what the evidence.

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It's Just An Opinion

but I don't need money, we'll not yet at least. when I do I'll make it all at casinos and be set for life. 

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pallidin

Drugs... 

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Seti42

To prove that town doesn't exist, you'd probably also have to prove nothing exists. And if you do it right, we all wink out of existence.

It's not worth it. Don't do it. Clearly this town wants to end the universe as we know it.

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Timothy
On 8/22/2019 at 10:41 PM, Habitat said:

German humour is different. Quite different. You have to be a German to understand it, I have some German genes, but clearly not enough for this purpose.

That’s what Germans think. :lol:

I have some German genes too. And I get it. Lol!

But I’m an idiot and I will entertain myself with stupid things, so maybe that helps. 

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Timothy
5 hours ago, It's Just An Opinion said:

but I don't need money, we'll not yet at least. when I do I'll make it all at casinos and be set for life. 

You have a failed understanding.

If a tree falls and no one is around to hear it: The atoms which generate the sounds still exist and their affect on surrounding atoms still occurs as normal. 

If there was no sound, then no tree fell.

What’s your trick for casinos? You seem kinda confident. But I fear it may be misplaced confidence. 

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Gwynbleidd

Suffice to say, it's unlikely that the prize money will be going anywhere.

I feel like this would be the same as any of us saying .....Lets run a competition in here on UM where the prizemoney is 1 million dollars and all the winner has to do is prove the sky isn't blue. :wacko:

 

 

 

 

I just know someone is going to come back and say, but it isn't blue and my example will be ruined. :P  

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Ratbiter

This is quiet easy to prove but the explanation is very long winded, So I'll not bother as there will be no reward at the end of it, Because you can not claim a prize from a place that doesn't exist.

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toast

Well yes, I`m a German and I`ve tried a few times to visit Bielefeld. Even it its in the maps, there is nothing when you are there where it is claimed to be. The Google Earth view is photoshopped and the newspapers are faked as well, see example here. The competition and the prize itself are jokes because as Bielefeld does not exists, it cannot have any officials who could check the proofs. Thats logical, right?

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toast
10 hours ago, It's Just An Opinion said:

*snip*

Congratulation. I`m sure your post was the longest comment ever which had nothing to do with the topic.

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godnodog

heres another weird one, Lisbon is not the capital of Portugal, yet everyone here (me included) and around the world says it is, and I dare anyone to prove it is the capital, a simple law stating it is Lisbon will sufice.

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Scholar4Truth

Maybe the people that issued this challenge either and its all part of the conspiracy ;)

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Impedancer

We're in the matrix so give me the cash.

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third_eye
21 minutes ago, Impedancer said:

We're in the matrix so give me the cash.

There's a door on your right, go up the stairs, find the blue phone in the room with a 'do not enter' sign, stay by the phone and wait for further instructions. 

Unless of course if you took the red pill...

~

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