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GLCsector3295

Where to start in investigating

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Desertrat56
4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

i consider that a trait of a cold reader no special "telepathic" powers.

I think it depends on how many questions one asks.  Every one is telepathic to an extent, some more than others.  I am sure that goes against your beliefs so don't worry I will not try to convince you of anything.  Just don't get emotional about me having a different understanding than you do.

P.S. bats, it is not personal, just my knee jerk about arguing for no reason, so I put that disclaimer for others because you don't seem to be someone who likes to argue like some do. 

Edited by Desertrat56
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the13bats
34 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I think it depends on how many questions one asks.  Every one is telepathic to an extent, some more than others.  I am sure that goes against your beliefs so don't worry I will not try to convince you of anything.  Just don't get emotional about me having a different understanding than you do.

P.S. bats, it is not personal, just my knee jerk about arguing for no reason, so I put that disclaimer for others because you don't seem to be someone who likes to argue like some do. 

we all have our opinions whether we call them opinions, beliefs, understanding whatever,

Emotinal/personal isnt something i get on forums, why would i? im not trying to sell anything, my ego isnt involved, the most emotional i see anyone get is when a blind true believer is asked for the proof they do not have.

cold reading is an art, ive met people i watched get a reading and after the fact only recall the hits, many would tell you they were read with zero questions asked which wasnt the case.

as you have likely seen me post countless times here for over 40 years of my inquries for psychics etc who make claims of special powers the prove it  i have yet to find anyone who made me believe they had any and i have taken my studies as far as the phychic hotspot cassadega,

if "telepathic" means mind reading, no, ive never seen proof of that, if it mean intuitive, sure everyone is,

and yes, if i believed in phychic type powers i would except everyone to have them, some better than others but for example if i ask 1000 people to draw me a cat they all can.

so in the end i understand believers, they do need the proof i need and i respect that, no arguements from me on it.

Edited by the13bats
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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

we all have our opinions whether we call them opinions, beliefs, understanding whatever,

Emotinal/personal isnt something i get on forums, why would i? im not trying to sell anything, my ego isnt involved, the most emotional i see anyone get is when a blind true believer is asked for the proof they do not have.

cold reading is an art, ive met people i watched get a reading and after the fact only recall the hits, many would tell you they were read with zero questions asked which wasnt the case.

as you have likely seen me post countless times here for over 40 years of my inquries for psychics etc who make claims of special powers the prove it  i have yet to see anyone who made me believe they had any and i have taken my studies as far as the phychic hotspot cassadega,

if "telepathic" means mind reading, no, ive never seen proof of that, if it mean intuitive, sure everyone is,

and yes, if i believed in phychic type powers i would except everyone to have them, some better than others but for example if i ask 1000 people to draw me a cat they all can.

so in the end i understand believers, they do need the proof i need and i respect that, no arguements from me on it.

No, telepathic does not mean "mind reading".  It is much more subtle, and has nothing to do with language. 

I have similar observations and have found that most people who proclaim themselves to be "psychic" are not, and that word has connotations that annoy me.  Now days the big thing seems to be "psychic medium" because everyone wants to hear from their dead relatives.  It is a huge business.

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Desertrat56

P.S.  I also have found that it is easy to get certain types of people to pay for readings because they will not accept that they have access to all the information they need in order to make a decision, or they just want someone to make them feel better whether it is true or not.

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the13bats

rat, i want to address your last two posts as they engage my mind but i also want to veer back to GLCs original question,

I worked at a botanica where people paid for readings and spells, if the spell worked it was great and the owner was the powerful magic man, if the spell failed then it was the persons fault they didnt believe correctly or didnt do this or that right, but i did see the readings and spells help people, not because of otherwordly magic but it simply gave the person the confidence they lacked on their own.

So i have mixed feelings about it.

 

as far as real research into unproven areas like "paranormal" i guess one has to start with being more specific, haunts, ghosts for example, if they existed and were in our world some device should be able to detect them, afterall we have all kinds of devices to detect living humans the sercurity industry is big.

research into such things is hard, look at the warrens, i feel from the evidence they were charlatans, frauds out for a buck,  a big collection of alleged haunted junk, zero proof.

I guess after all these years things like bigfoot, aliens and ghosts havent been proven unless you are a believer, grainy video isnt gonna wash, people want a body, so im not sure where to start, if one cant produce a bigfoot, alien or a ghost on demand then its not going to be accepted either by science or the majority so perhaps the start is spend the night at a few haunted locations, see what you learn, likely more about your own preceptions and mind than any spookies haunting around.

 

 

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Desertrat56

@the13bats  I totally agree with your conclusion about confidence being the determining factor in whether things work or don't.  Sometimes I have seen people who could walk out with a different attitude from any situation, whether it was the "psychic" telling them something uplifting or a relative telling them they are lovable, choose not to change their mind/attitude/feelings and of course nothing in their life changes.  Any time someone else says something that gives you hope or confidence when life doesn't seem to be working you can change your attitude, thinking and your life changes. 

I have seen people repeat affirmations over and over and over for months then one day say "Why is my life still ****?"  Because the affirmations only work if you KNOW they are true, believing doesn't help and repeating them over and over indicates you don't know them to be true.  Jedi mind tricks.

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Rlyeh
On 8/28/2019 at 12:09 PM, GLCsector3295 said:

Because it isn't a scientific based field.  It is a field based in faith. you either believe in it or you don't.

So the investigation is how far gullibility can be pushed.

 

On 8/28/2019 at 12:09 PM, GLCsector3295 said:

Same for a miracle, miracles are miracles because science can not explain with all its might how the miracle happened.

No, it's because people like you don't want them to be explained.  Miracles are born from a safe space called faith.

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GLCsector3295
On 9/3/2019 at 1:09 PM, Rlyeh said:

So the investigation is how far gullibility can be pushed.

 

No, it's because people like you don't want them to be explained.  Miracles are born from a safe space called faith.

Thanks for trolling this thread and proving my point in general in what i speaking towards.

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Rlyeh
4 hours ago, GLCsector3295 said:

Thanks for trolling this thread and proving my point in general in what i speaking towards.

So you weren't talking about an investigation, you were talking about confirmation bias?

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Alchopwn
On 9/4/2019 at 4:09 AM, Rlyeh said:

No, it's because people like you don't want them to be explained.  Miracles are born from a safe space called faith.

Where do you stand on "miracles" that can be explained but are ridiculously unlikely and wildly fortuitous?  This sort of "act of providence" could be seen as the god of an ordered universe intervening in a timely and appropriate fashion.  I'm playing devil's advocate here, but this was historically the more protestant approach to miracles, especially in Calvinist churches.

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Rlyeh
19 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Where do you stand on "miracles" that can be explained but are ridiculously unlikely and wildly fortuitous?

Such as?

If you're talking about instances were someone miraculously escapes danger/survives a deadly illness/etc, compare it to the amount who do not and it becomes probability.

 

Quote

This sort of "act of providence" could be seen as the god of an ordered universe intervening in a timely and appropriate fashion.  I'm playing devil's advocate here, but this was historically the more protestant approach to miracles, especially in Calvinist churches.

Sounds awfully like an argument from ignorance.

Edited by Rlyeh

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Timothy
On 8/23/2019 at 12:32 AM, GLCsector3295 said:

The paranormal investigating field seems fun, could be dangerous, ....  With out being able to join in on an investigation with out paying through the nose, the next option is to just start ones own investigation. An there in is the title, where to actually start.

I have an okay tripod and DSLR with a video recording option, but as for EVP recording,  what kind of quality does one really need to capture any kind of EVP ?  Are there brands of recording devices to look for, or does it not matter at all ?  The other gadget I am curious about are, I think, white noise boxes, that cycle through channels, and supposedly spirits can speak through the device through the channels,  are those worth buying online or is it just the same to make ones own.   Or perhaps another question is what to avoid buying and what is worth buying .

It’s like that flat-earther recently who accidentally proved that the Earth is not flat.

So: Buy any piece of equipment, test it thoroughly and document everything, and your results will prove that EVP is not a real thing. 

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GLCsector3295
On 9/3/2019 at 1:09 PM, Rlyeh said:

So the investigation is how far gullibility can be pushed.

 

No, it's because people like you don't want them to be explained.  Miracles are born from a safe space called faith.

awesome thanks for trolling and not contributing to the topic at hand. and for proving my point about the forum.

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GLCsector3295
9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

So you weren't talking about an investigation, you were talking about confirmation bias?

a poor attempt at trolling or just too stupid to comprehend the topic at hand, i cant help you sorry. but ty for proving my point about this forum.

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GLCsector3295
7 hours ago, Timothy said:

It’s like that flat-earther recently who accidentally proved that the Earth is not flat.

So: Buy any piece of equipment, test it thoroughly and document everything, and your results will prove that EVP is not a real thing. 

ah okay interesting so, you are pretending to be on topic but again it is just trolling you provided absolutely no helpful information, just again proving that this forum is just too packed with moronic trolls that are just sadly too stupid to really try an have any kind of dialogue with . ty for proving my point about this forum though.

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GLCsector3295

alrighty for the trolls, feel free to spin this thread off, i am done with it, my mistake again for thinking that U.M was a forum for like minded people in the paranormal field at any level, rather sad how many trolls live here.

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Scholar4Truth
3 hours ago, GLCsector3295 said:

alrighty for the trolls, feel free to spin this thread off, i am done with it, my mistake again for thinking that U.M was a forum for like minded people in the paranormal field at any level, rather sad how many trolls live here.

There will always be those who hold to Radical Skepticism on this forum, but don't let that derail you from having discussions.

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Alchopwn
23 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Such as?  If you're talking about instances were someone miraculously escapes danger/survives a deadly illness/etc, compare it to the amount who do not and it becomes probability.

I have a personal example.  When I was 10 years old I had a dream where I met a talking cat and it told me it knew everything and would show me how I would die. In the dream I was transported to me driving a car years in the future, where I ran out of gas just as I tried to cross a railway line.  Visibility was poor due to fog, and as I was pushing my car off the lines I was t-boned by a freight train, in the dream.  Then I woke up.  Flash forwards to me at age 26 in 1994.  There is a gas station about a mile from my parents house where I was staying, and they give good prices so I go there.  On the day in question, it was foggy, and when I showed up, the gas was all sold out.  This may have happened at other times, but I have never encountered it before or since.  So I decided to head to the next closest gas station over the nearby rail lines, paying the matter no mind.  The crossing had lights but no gates at the time.  Then exactly when I was dead center on the railway lines, I ran out of gas, and I had that awful deja vu as I remembered the dream, but I had only recently bought the car, (a souped up 1981 white and red Chevy Monte Carlo), for my college commute and didn't want to lose it, so I got out, slipped it into neutral and started to push it, despite knowing this was likely to kill me.  In retrospect this was actually very stupid, but it was like I was mentally locked in to what I was doing despite knowing that I would be killed. Within moments of the stall, a guy from AAA pulled up in the fog out of nowhere, and we got my car off the tracks in ample time, and yes, the freight train came barrelling along about 90 seconds later. He gave me fuel for free, but had no card, and didn't have time to give me his details as he had another job to get to, and I never saw him again, but I know that he didn't work locally, because I went looking around local AAA mechanics to thank him properly and no-one knew the guy.

Now please understand, I am not making this up to big note myself, but it really happened to me.  I certainly don't ascribe any supernatural significance to cats, but the one in question was a bit like the Cheshire cat from Disney's Alice in Wonderland, who I never liked as he seemed way too smug.  Now obviously I didn't die, so the precognitive dream was wrong about that, but it was right about the other details, save that I have no idea what I was wearing in the dream.  The car, the setting, and the circumstances were the same.  Other people have said that the AAA guy was "an angel", but in truth I probably could have pushed the car off the tracks myself in time, and I am pretty sure everybody knows I am an atheist.

So I put it to you, taking my word that this is true admittedly, what are the odds of having your car run out of gas exactly on railway tracks?  Some motorists will never run out of gas in their entire lives.  Most people will run out of gas about once in their life.  This was the only time I have ever run out of gas in my entire life, and I have logged some long hours behind the wheel.  What do you think I should make of this series of events?

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Rlyeh
6 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

I have a personal example.  When I was 10 years old I had a dream where I met a talking cat and it told me it knew everything and would show me how I would die. In the dream I was transported to me driving a car years in the future, where I ran out of gas just as I tried to cross a railway line.  Visibility was poor due to fog, and as I was pushing my car off the lines I was t-boned by a freight train, in the dream.  Then I woke up.  Flash forwards to me at age 26 in 1994.  There is a gas station about a mile from my parents house where I was staying, and they give good prices so I go there.  On the day in question, it was foggy, and when I showed up, the gas was all sold out.  This may have happened at other times, but I have never encountered it before or since.  So I decided to head to the next closest gas station over the nearby rail lines, paying the matter no mind.  The crossing had lights but no gates at the time.  Then exactly when I was dead center on the railway lines, I ran out of gas, and I had that awful deja vu as I remembered the dream, but I had only recently bought the car, (a souped up 1981 white and red Chevy Monte Carlo), for my college commute and didn't want to lose it, so I got out, slipped it into neutral and started to push it, despite knowing this was likely to kill me.  In retrospect this was actually very stupid, but it was like I was mentally locked in to what I was doing despite knowing that I would be killed. Within moments of the stall, a guy from AAA pulled up in the fog out of nowhere, and we got my car off the tracks in ample time, and yes, the freight train came barrelling along about 90 seconds later. He gave me fuel for free, but had no card, and didn't have time to give me his details as he had another job to get to, and I never saw him again, but I know that he didn't work locally, because I went looking around local AAA mechanics to thank him properly and no-one knew the guy.

Now please understand, I am not making this up to big note myself, but it really happened to me.  I certainly don't ascribe any supernatural significance to cats, but the one in question was a bit like the Cheshire cat from Disney's Alice in Wonderland, who I never liked as he seemed way too smug.  Now obviously I didn't die, so the precognitive dream was wrong about that, but it was right about the other details, save that I have no idea what I was wearing in the dream.  The car, the setting, and the circumstances were the same.  Other people have said that the AAA guy was "an angel", but in truth I probably could have pushed the car off the tracks myself in time, and I am pretty sure everybody knows I am an atheist.

So I put it to you, taking my word that this is true admittedly, what are the odds of having your car run out of gas exactly on railway tracks?  Some motorists will never run out of gas in their entire lives.  Most people will run out of gas about once in their life.  This was the only time I have ever run out of gas in my entire life, and I have logged some long hours behind the wheel.  What do you think I should make of this series of events?

Was everything the same though, or did you fill them in with your experience over ten years later?

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joc
34 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

So I put it to you, taking my word that this is true admittedly, what are the odds of having your car run out of gas exactly on railway tracks?  Some motorists will never run out of gas in their entire lives.  Most people will run out of gas about once in their life.  This was the only time I have ever run out of gas in my entire life, and I have logged some long hours behind the wheel.  What do you think I should make of this series of events?

The odds are not great...in fact...very small.  That being said...you were almost out of gas anyway...so, where you ran out of gas is irrelevant.  I have run out of gas twice...as I approached the pump at the gas station and coasted right up to the pump....twice.  What are the odds of that?

Now, if you had been killed by the train as you ran out of gas...that would have been very interesting.  Very sad indeed...but interesting.

I went deer hunting once...once.   My friend shot two deer the first day.  It was getting dark as he put his rifle away.  The way he did it was to eject all the shells, then lay it down in the bed of his truck and pull the trigger.  I was standing in the door on the passenger side and noticed the barrel pointed directly at my knee caps.  I instinctively moved over about a foot.  He pulled the trigger and a live round went off that hadn't kicked out earlier.  What are the odds of a casing getting lodged in the rifle?  What are the odds of the casing getting lodged and me standing in front of the rifle?  What are the odds of me moving away not even knowing that he was about to pull the trigger and blow my leg off?  

Strange things happen.  I think the best way to go about investigating them is to get down to the firm reality of ground first.  The fact is coincidences do happen...frequently.

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Alchopwn
22 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Was everything the same though, or did you fill them in with your experience over ten years later?

In fairness I think IRL I had my briefcase on my passenger seat, whereas in the dream it was a knapsack, but I have used both for my books and papers.  I cannot remember the license plate of the vehicle in my dream either, but the make, model, and color scheme of the Monte Carlo was the same.  I think in the dream the St Christoper medal was still glued to the dashboard, but IRL I removed it.  As for the setting, that railway crossing now has boomgates, but they weren't put in until a couple of years later.  At the time it hadn't changed in a very long time.  The fog was something of a factor in reducing the detail to be fair.  As to my memory, it is pretty good.  I was taught to memory palace as a kid, and while I am not eidetic, I am well above average in quality of recall, as I volunteered for a psych study that put me in the 4th SD for memory.  While not quite able to regress myself at will, memory wise, I am pretty reliable, tho I have begun to slip a little as I have aged, and my recall isn't as good as it was when I was 35.

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esoteric_toad

Ghost hunting as it is portrayed is so flawed on so many levels because there is zero desire to actually try and investigate anything. Simply put it is way more fun (and profitable for many) to believe in instruments that have been used to find "ghosts" without any proof they do anything of the sort.

For example, EVP. I have not seen an example of sincere attempts to prove that they are anything except picking something out of white noise, interference or straight up hoaxes. A simple way to test would be to use multiple recorders with a mix of analog and digital. Going a step further would be to throw in a faraday cage. Also do not tell people what you claim to hear, let them decide. I would venture to say that if these simple steps were followed EVP's would quickly lose any significance. Of course those that want to believe would likely come up with a million reasons their EVPs disappeared or no one can understand them and that is because it wouldn't back their faith anymore.

Another issue that I have brought up is with locations that are historically 'haunted' there never seems to be an ongoing attempt at researching anything. People go in with their 'instruments', record some video and audio, make claims and then b***** off. To me it proves that there is nothing to these haunting because no one seems to really care about the claims of repeating mysteries. The excuse used to be that it would be too expensive to have the equipment on site 24/7 but that is no longer true. At least here in the US (and MANY other places) you can setup cameras, recording equipment and have a 24/7 internet stream for very little. It would seem that with all of these locations that have reoccurring activities that at least some consistent data would be around. Instead it remains the same, stories and claims and nothing more. Believers will believe and skeptics will always be left wanting real proof.

I have a friend that owns a 'haunted house' in Indiana (it has been on some of the investigation shows I believe). The claims made at that one location should be really easy to prove if they were true. Truly though no one wants to prove it one way or the other. It is fun to be scared or it gives some hope of an afterlife. That and there is very real money to be made.

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Mr Walker
On 8/24/2019 at 12:00 PM, Emma_Acid said:

OK, so - for something to fit within a scientific framework it needs to:

  • be falsifiable
  • be used to make predictions
  • be evidenced from multiple sources
  • be able to be replicated in any suitable environment
  • it is consistent with pre-existing experimental data

Those are the basics. There are other criteria. But this isn't some mystery held by a select few - this is how science works. "Ghost hunting" doesn't pass a single one of these criteria - so why ask about "ghost hunting methods" when it doesn't really exist?

The  scientific method is not quite that prescriptive

What is the Scientific Method?

The scientific method is a process for experimentation that is used to explore observations and answer questions. Does this mean all scientists follow exactly this process? No. Some areas of science can be more easily tested than others. For example, scientists studying how stars change as they age or how dinosaurs digested their food cannot fast-forward a star's life by a million years or run medical exams on feeding dinosaurs to test their hypotheses. When direct experimentation is not possible, scientists modify the scientific method. In fact, there are probably as many versions of the scientific method as there are scientists! But even when modified, the goal remains the same: to discover cause and effect relationships by asking questions, carefully gathering and examining the evidence, and seeing if all the available information can be combined in to a logical answer.

Even though we show the scientific method as a series of steps, keep in mind that new information or thinking might cause a scientist to back up and repeat steps at any point during the process. A process like the scientific method that involves such backing up and repeating is called an iterative process.

Whether you are doing a science fair project, a classroom science activity, independent research, or any other hands-on science inquiry understanding the steps of the scientific method will help you focus your scientific question and work through your observations and data to answer the question as well as possible.

 
 
Steps of the Scientific Method

 https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/science-fair/steps-of-the-scientific-method

Thus not all the things you mention are essential for a scientific method of study, although they may be required, to have your results accepted  by non participating scientists 

Edited by Mr Walker
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brian100
On 8/22/2019 at 7:32 AM, GLCsector3295 said:

The paranormal investigating field seems fun, could be dangerous, ....  With out being able to join in on an investigation with out paying through the nose, the next option is to just start ones own investigation. An there in is the title, where to actually start.

I have an okay tripod and DSLR with a video recording option, but as for EVP recording,  what kind of quality does one really need to capture any kind of EVP ?  Are there brands of recording devices to look for, or does it not matter at all ?  The other gadget I am curious about are, I think, white noise boxes, that cycle through channels, and supposedly spirits can speak through the device through the channels,  are those worth buying online or is it just the same to make ones own.   Or perhaps another question is what to avoid buying and what is worth buying .

 

Your best luck is to visit the places where more than 20 people say its haunted, but be prepared to high tail it. You ain't seen fear until you've spooked yourself.

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TrumanB

@Alchopwn

Just an another example of precognitive dreaming. :) Had them so many in my life...I'm glad that things ended well with you. Cat was just a tool of the subconscious, maybe you liked cats as a kid or read Alice in wonderland...

Regarding the ghost stuff I don't know what to think really...maybe there are entities on different frequencies that occasionally cross our dimension.

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