Vaping is not good for vascular function

[Eldorado]

"Days after dozens of people were hospitalized for mysterious and severe respiratory problems after using e-cigarettes, a new study reveals that a single session of vaping, even without nicotine, has immediate and significant negative effects on blood flow.

"The finding is not tied to the recent hospitalizations. But this study, along with other research uncovering cancer-causing chemicals and harmful substances in the vapor inhaled from e-cigarettes, suggests that vaping is not as safe as many believe it to be."

Full article at the Medium dot com: https://elemental.medium.com/the-emerging-dangers-of-vaping-c66676f5253a

"Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function Detected at Quantitative MRI

Paper at RSNA: https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2019190562

 

"What's Behind A Cluster Of Vaping-Related Hospitalizations?"

Full report at NPR dot org: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/08/16/751823475/whats-behind-a-cluster-of-vaping-related-hospitalizations?t=1566485404307

[papageorge1]

I realize vaping is unhealthy but I am noticing a rash of these kind of articles. What I am not feeling from these articles is a sense of overall perspective on 'how' bad it actually is. I mean I see articles on how bad a soda is on the body but come on 'it's not that bad either'.

My point is that I still don't feel I have a good perspective on just how bad vaping is. Is it significantly linked to cancer for example?

Edited August 22, 2019 by papageorge1

[+and-then]

My guess is there is some chemical in the vapor that causes vasoconstriction so less blood flows, less oxygen makes it to the brain and tissues and if you do that chronically you're going to have cardiovascular problems.

[Still Waters]

I'm not saying the study isn't right, but I think health studies in general need to make their minds up. They tell us something is bad for us, next thing we're told the opposite, and sometimes they even revert back to what they said to begin with. It gets to the point where you don't take any notice of these studies and do/eat what you want anyway.

On the topic of e-cigs I'm a non-smoker and don't see the appeal. However I do know someone who gave up cigarettes years ago and has been hooked on ecigs ever since. At the time they were supposed to be a healthier alternative but now according to the latest study apparently they're not. In my view all smoking is harmful in some way, but each to their own.

[WolfsHead]

Smoking and vaping are both harmful. Can you still buy them? ......... Of course you can. Its about money, not health. 

[moonman]

Vaping is still at least 90% safer than smoking. Obviously the safest thing to do is not not breath in anything except air, but for quitting smoking there's nothing better. Depending on how much you smoked, the damage is likely already done. We do need a reputable large scale study of different aspects of vaping. Too many instances of one company making a cheap vape juice that makes people sick or has a bad ingredient and suddenly all vaping is demonized - that's not how it should be treated. Like in this article, groups of people in certain locations being hospitalized at the exact same time and vaping is their only link? There has to be something else going on, they all got a hold of the same bad juice or were infected with a virus that vapers are prone to or something like that. Maybe vaping had nothing to do with it. Getting sick from a vice doesn't follow a schedule in certain locations, this was an outbreak of some sort.

For people who have never smoked - I don't understand why you would start vaping in the first place. It's not for you.

Edited August 22, 2019 by moonman

[Dark_Grey]

Are cigarette sales dropping? What is the motive behind funding all these e-smoke "studies" that are suddenly coming out of the woodwork? Yeah, inhaling anything but clean air isn't healthy - common sense tells us that. Breathing in brake dust and car exhaust while waiting at a red light is worse than just about anything as brake dust is a known carcinogen yet I don't see a huge rush to recall brake pads for safer versions. These e-cig studies reek of industry bias, IMO.

[spartan max2]

6 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Are cigarette sales dropping? What is the motive behind funding all these e-smoke "studies" that are suddenly coming out of the woodwork? Yeah, inhaling anything but clean air isn't healthy - common sense tells us that. Breathing in brake dust and car exhaust while waiting at a red light is worse than just about anything as brake dust is a known carcinogen yet I don't see a huge rush to recall brake pads for safer versions. These e-cig studies reek of industry bias, IMO.

Vaping has urgent funding for studies behind it because of its increased popularity, mostly among younger people, partly caused by the claim that is a much healthier alternative to cigs.

So studies are needed to determine if that is even true.

 

[spartan max2]

4 hours ago, WolfsHead said:

Smoking and vaping are both harmful. Can you still buy them? ......... Of course you can. Its about money, not health. 

We tried prohibition of alcohol and it solved nonething, only caused problems.

That's why it's legal.

[Dark_Grey]

8 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Vaping has urgent funding for studies behind it because of its increased popularity, mostly among younger people, partly caused by the claim that is a much healthier alternative to cigs.

How is that even debatable? One needs only look at the list of ingredients for both to see how much worse cigs are. Of course e-cigs are a healthier alternative but so is breathing camp fire smoke. There isn't much worse out there for your body than cigarettes.

[Dark_Grey]

10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

We tried prohibition of alcohol and it solved nonething, only caused problems.

That's why it's legal.

Alcohol prohibition was a conspiracy by big oil to shift the public away from ethanol. They didn't want people to be able to create their own fuel at home. It was all based on a a big lie, created by big business, just like Marijuana prohibition. I know that's not part of the e-cig topic here but it's knowledge worth spreading 

[spartan max2]

8 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

How is that even debatable? One needs only look at the list of ingredients for both to see how much worse cigs are. Of course e-cigs are a healthier alternative but so is breathing camp fire smoke. There isn't much worse out there for your body than cigarettes.

I guess I meant more that a lot of young people are getting interested in smoking under the idea that e-ciggs are "not that bad". So the effects need to be researched more.

It's of course a better alternative but we do not want people thinking its basically safe which could cause them to start or even discourage them from continueing  to stop smoking all together 

[Eldorado]

Related news....

'First vape death in the US' recorded in Illinois

"A patient has died after developing a severe respiratory disease due to vaping in the first such death in the US, say health officials.

"The US state of Illinois' health agency said the unnamed patient was between 17 and 38 years old.

"It comes amid an outbreak of lung disease across the US that officials have linked to use of e-cigarettes."

Full report at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49452256

 

"According to a news release from the Illinois Department of Health, 22 people, ranging in age from 17-38 years, experienced respiratory illness after using e-cigarettes or vaping in the past week."

Full report at Fox News: https://www.foxnews.com/health/illinois-patients-death-first-us-vaping

The Illinois Department of Public Health: http://www.dph.illinois.gov/news/illinois-resident-experiencing-respiratory-illness-after-vaping-dies

Edited August 24, 2019 by Eldorado
Add link

[moonman]

It also says most of the people who got sick were vaping THC - could have everything to do with it.

Edited August 27, 2019 by moonman

[Farmer77]

2 hours ago, moonman said:

It also says most of the people who got sick were vaping THC - could have everything to do with it.

It would be the first recorded death in 20k years of THC consumption if it did.

 

[+Hammerclaw]

There's no oversight into the manufacture of vaping fluid. You could bottle stump water and sell it. There's no telling what you are inhaling into your lungs. That needs to change.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[moonman]

12 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

It would be the first recorded death in 20k years of THC consumption if it did.

 

I'm saying maybe they got a hold of some poisoned THC juice, not that the THC itself caused it.

People have been vaping for over a decade with little to no problem, and suddenly there's a rash of vaping related illness in certain areas? Something else is going on. If it was truly only the vaping making them sick, it wouldn't be acting like an outbreak of a disease.

Edited August 27, 2019 by moonman

[moonman]

12 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

There's no oversight into the manufacture of vaping fluid. You could bottle stump water and sell it. There's no telling what you are inhaling into your lungs. That needs to change.

I agree, and that's why I make my own, with three ingredients - lab grade PG, VG, and nicotine. No flavorings, no preservatives or coloring or anything else. If people were smart they would make their own as well, especially considering it costs 1/8th the price of store bought juice. If the people researching this "outbreak" were smart they would look beyond just the vaping aspect and look at what exactly is being vaped.

These days I get sick FAR less than I do when I was smoking cigs, my lung function has increased dramatically, and I just feel bettter all around. I can't help but laugh when claims say vaping is "as bad or worse than cigs", that's complete and absolute BS, I don't need a study to prove that. It's common sense.

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by moonman

[spartan max2]

9 minutes ago, moonman said:

I agree, and that's why I make my own, with three ingredients - lab grade PG, VG, and nicotine. No flavorings, no preservatives or coloring or anything else. If people were smart they would make their own as well, especially considering it costs 1/8th the price of store bought juice.

These days I get sick FAR less than I do when I was smoking cigs, my lung function has increased dramatically, and I just feel bettter all around. I can't help but laugh when claims say vaping is "as bad or worse than cigs", that's complete and absolute BS, I don't need a study to prove that. It's common sense.

 

OP study isn't making that claim. It's just showing research showing that e-cigs are still harmful, even if less. 

[moonman]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

OP study isn't making that claim. It's just showing research showing that e-cigs are still harmful, even if less. 

I've never seen anyone claim they are 100% safe nor do I think they are.

But this rash of hospitalizations keeps being brought up and it makes no sense. Something besides normal vaping is causing it.

Edited August 27, 2019 by moonman

[spartan max2]

1 minute ago, moonman said:

I've never seen anyone claim they are 100% safe nor do I think they are.

Why are you reacting hostile towards the research being done then ? 

[moonman]

9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Why are you reacting hostile towards the research being done then ? 

Like I said in the second part of my post that you didn't quote, these hospitalizations and one death keep being tied to it and I don't buy that "normal" vaping is the cause. THAT is what I'm calling BS on. Over a decade of vaping with very few issues and then suddenly people sent to the hospital in droves from nothing but vaping? BS, all the way. SOMETHING ELSE is at play.

If this thread was just about a study that said "vaping isn't 100% safe and can cause issues" I would agree - but that's not what this thread is actually pushing.

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by moonman

[toast]

15 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

There's no oversight into the manufacture of vaping fluid. You could bottle stump water and sell it. There's no telling what you are inhaling into your lungs. That needs to change.

I thought the same and checked FDA HP. There is a lot of information and regulation on e-cigs and related products. But I dont think that 100% of all imports of such stuff get controlled, giving the option that garage manufactured (fake) products may enter the/any country.

[aztek]

you never know what is in that e juice, and who made it,   some maybe be less harmful than others

the thing about vapes, it may help some adults quit, but it is more and more popular with kids who never smoked cigs.   and they vape like there is no tomorrow,  vape mods 100-200watts, cloud of smoke that is so thick it is almost solid, i tried it once, those 200w mods, one puff and it felt like my throat and lungs were on fire, 

there is a very simple test, get a pulse oximeter , check, your oxygen saturation before and after vaping, or smoking, you'll see right away how it affects your blood o2 level

Edited August 28, 2019 by aztek

[aztek]

On 8/26/2019 at 9:11 PM, moonman said:

It also says most of the people who got sick were vaping THC - could have everything to do with it.

yes, most likely, those cartridges that are sold on black market are mostly of unknown manufacturer,  with anything you can imagine inside, i have no doubt some are outright poisonous, how do i know?  my nephew is in high school, kids are selling weed and those cartridges in schools.  

also ,even if it is a legit cartridge, they are much more potent than weed,  kids may have simply OD on them

Edited August 28, 2019 by aztek