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XenoFish

What is the point of Spirituality?

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Will Due

 

The point of spirituality is to grow. To the person who has dedicated themselves to react positively to the natural urge of perfection hunger...

"what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.

100:2.8

After such spiritual attainment, whether secured by gradual growth or specific crisis, there occurs a new orientation of personality as well as the development of a new standard of values. Such spirit-born individuals are so remotivated in life that they can calmly stand by while their fondest ambitions perish and their keenest hopes crash; they positively know that such catastrophes are but the redirecting cataclysms which wreck one’s temporal creations preliminary to the rearing of the more noble and enduring realities of a new and more sublime level of universe attainment.

 

Spiritual Growth

 

 

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joc
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I don't know. From the video it appeared that spirituality is more about 'one-ness' whatever that really means, God appeared to be an afterthought.

Maybe I should actually watch the video...I'll make a point of doing that.

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SmartAZ

Science is anything that can be measured. Spirit is anything that can not be measured. Science is powered by logic and evidence. Spirit is powered by believing and wisdom. No connection. Stop trying to prove or disprove spiritual things with science. Spiritual matters are not proven by logic. Science is proven by logic. No connection. The reason you can't "prove" God is that if you don't believe, then all proof is nonsense by definition. 

Beyond those definitions, spirituality might be different for each person. For Archimedes it was realizing that a body displaces its volume in water, and that allowed him to determine whether the king's bling was pure gold or not. For Moses it was a voice from a burning bush. 

Speaking of Moses, when God revealed the name YHVH, the emperor of China at the time changed his name to Yahoo because he heard a voice in the sky speak that word. Nobody else seems to have known how to pronounce it. So there is a spiritual experience for you to ponder.

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joc
2 hours ago, lightly said:

i'm starting to wonder if beginnings and endings are nothing more than concepts.  Misconceptions actually.

 Does the Universe need concepts?

Beginnings and endings are all part of Spirituality.  The Bible tells us the universe was created in 7 days by God.  The question then becomes ...where did God come from?  It's a street that goes nowhere...but...such were the minds of the ancients.

Somewhere along the way humanoids began questioning their own existence.  Those questions were answered by Spirituality and Religion.  So, I think that is the point of Spirituality...to give humans a since of purpose.  Of course...the only purpose life really has is to keep living.

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XenoFish

Spirituality belongs in the realm of psychology. 

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and then
12 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

To me being spiritual is going against religion that controls the world. I search for different answers then what was told to me when I was born here.

That's kind of the way I think of the term as well.  I was first exposed to the concept of spirituality through AA meetings.  The founders of that movement obtained success with extreme, low-bottom, hard-core alcoholics by helping them to focus on something greater than themselves.  It taught them that they could stay sober as long as they spent time helping others like themselves.  Both Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob were Christian but they intentionally kept the fellowship from being associated with the dogmas of any church.  

Spirituality to me is believing in and taking strength and comfort from a "power greater than yourself" 

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danydandan
3 hours ago, SmartAZ said:

Speaking of Moses, when God revealed the name YHVH, the emperor of China at the time changed his name to Yahoo because he heard a voice in the sky speak that word. Nobody else seems to have known how to pronounce it. So there is a spiritual experience for you to ponder.

????????? Huh.

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and then
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Spirituality belongs in the realm of psychology. 

Why?  

It is an academic discipline of immense scope and diverse interests that, when taken together, seek an understanding of the emergent properties of brains, and all the variety of epiphenomena they manifest

It is certainly valid for Psychologists to study spirituality's effects on man but since the impact of spirituality far outweighs the science of psychology I don't see it as preeminent at all.  Not all of life can be forced into a scientific, black and white paradigm.  Trying that just leads to erroneous assumptions and frustration.

 

 

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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, and then said:

Why?  

It is an academic discipline of immense scope and diverse interests that, when taken together, seek an understanding of the emergent properties of brains, and all the variety of epiphenomena they manifest

It is certainly valid for Psychologists to study spirituality's effects on man but since the impact of spirituality far outweighs the science of psychology I don't see it as preeminent at all.  Not all of life can be forced into a scientific, black and white paradigm.  Trying that just leads to erroneous assumptions and frustration.

 

 

Psychology at least branches of it deals with beliefs and how they affect us. Spirituality is a belief system. So....yeah, psychology.

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lightly
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Spirituality belongs in the realm of psychology. 

    Ya, but belief systems can also have positive, (or negative) affects over Physiology as well.  I can lower my blood pressure by simply relaxing a bit, calming my mind and breathing in a particular way.  I feel connected. I guess that's about all there is to my spirituality ..  ?

 Some people get beneficial physiological benefits from meditation  or prayer.  It comforts them and makes them feel better. 

       Even the ,proven and quite common, placebo affect.  I know you well understand that belief is a powerful thing.  

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XenoFish
15 minutes ago, lightly said:

 I know you well understand that belief is a powerful thing.

I do and beliefs can be used for good or ill. In the case of some people's spirituality, it generates a very egotistical superiority complex. For others it's a peaceful of mind state of being. Without all the superficial nonsense. It is mostly a matter of perspective. Which is why I see the Science vs Religion to be really Science vs Psychology. 

Psychology being the study of belief and how they affect us (for the most part). 

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and then
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Which is why I see the Science vs Religion to be really Science vs Psychology. 

Pigeonholing a belief system by saying it must be validated by man's understanding of it may be a comfortable way of dealing with the unknown but it hardly dismisses the reality that most humans believe in something greater than themselves.  To dismiss that overarching human trait is to close the mind to possibilities.  I've always thought it reduces everything to a depressing existence with no access to hope beyond one's own abilities and life span.  What would cause a person to desire that?

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XenoFish
19 minutes ago, and then said:

Pigeonholing a belief system by saying it must be validated by man's understanding of it may be a comfortable way of dealing with the unknown but it hardly dismisses the reality that most humans believe in something greater than themselves.  To dismiss that overarching human trait is to close the mind to possibilities.  I've always thought it reduces everything to a depressing existence with no access to hope beyond one's own abilities and life span.  What would cause a person to desire that?

Perhaps I'm not willing to lie myself and exaggerate my self importance in the universe. 

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Perhaps I'm not willing to lie myself and exaggerate my self importance in the universe. 

How do you know you aren't lying to yourself ?

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XenoFish
22 minutes ago, Habitat said:

How do you know you aren't lying to yourself ?

Because I know how unimportant and insignificant I am. 

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Habitat
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Because I know how unimportant and insignificant I am. 

That too, could be a lie you are telling yourself. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we think highly of one person, and less well of another, and including ourselves, in either way, and  think of it as absolute truth, these are just value judgements made by our ego, and only make sense in the context of a purpose. Best not to think of others like that, especially in emotionally loaded ways, but realise they are practical reactions, not reflections of absolute truth. If I don't elevate or lower anyone else, I then cannot impose that kind of judgement on myself. It is only by exalting others, that I can think poorly of myself, because otherwise, there is no contrast, and no contrast means no discrimination one way or the other. If someone says to you, that X is a great person, but you are a failure, then the response should be, lucky for X ! People who make those kinds of judgements, do so for a purpose, and the purpose is one of their advantage, not necessarily the expression of a wider truth.

Edited by Habitat

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Golden Duck
19 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That too, could be a lie you are telling yourself. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we think highly of one person, and less well of another, and including ourselves, in either way, and  think of it as absolute truth, these are just value judgements made by our ego, and only make sense in the context of a purpose. Best not to think of others like that, especially in emotionally loaded ways, but realise they are practical reactions, not reflections of absolute truth. If I don't elevate or lower anyone else, I then cannot impose that kind of judgement on myself. It is only by exalting others, that I can think poorly of myself, because otherwise, there is no contrast, and no contrast means no discrimination one way or the other. If someone says to you, that X is a great person, but you are a failure, then the response should be, lucky for X ! People who make those kinds of judgements, do so for a purpose, and the purpose is one of their advantage, not necessarily the expression of a wider truth.

Maybe to coin a word "disimportance" is what @XenoFish was referring to.

The same way there's a difference between disinterested and uninterested.

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Maybe to coin a word "disimportance" is what @XenoFish was referring to.

The same way there's a difference between disinterested and uninterested.

If he deems himself "disimportant", it becomes a matter of what is important, if anything. If the answer is nothing, I am not believing it, because it was important enough to go to the trouble of posting ! I would say "true" spirituality is a complete migration away from all value judgements, about anything, which surely creates a stillness and clarity that is the clean space that the "altogether other" can then fill in you. The ego, however, has other ideas.

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psyche101

Modern spirituality largely appears to be the dregs left over when the unsupportable nonsense in the Bible becomes too much to try and support. Those dregs are then moulded into some personal view that appeals to the author. Just another religious rehash in most cases. 

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Golden Duck
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

If he deems himself "disimportant", it becomes a matter of what is important, if anything. If the answer is nothing, I am not believing it, because it was important enough to go to the trouble of posting ! I would say "true" spirituality is a complete migration away from all value judgements, about anything, which surely creates a stillness and clarity that is the clean space that the "altogether other" can then fill in you. The ego, however, has other ideas.

His post is still insignificant; ie, not important. The question, concerning the post, is whom does it affect?

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

His post is still insignificant; ie, not important. The question, concerning the post, is whom does it affect?

Of some importance to him, presumably, or at least in the context of an abundance of similar posts by him.

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Golden Duck
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Of some importance to him, presumably, or at least in the context of an abundance of similar posts by him.

So it's obviously an "eye of the beholder" thing.

But here we are discussing his post.

Why he posts seems to be important to you. 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

So it's obviously an "eye of the beholder" thing.

But here we are discussing his post.

Why he posts seems to be important to you. 

No, but it certainly signals he does not believe what he says, which is essentially nihilism. He has not given up the chase.

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Golden Duck
5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

No, but it certainly signals he does not believe what he says, which is essentially nihilism. He has not given up the chase.

I seem to recall that some philosophers have written that there is still room to 'live in the moment' or 'give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar' and still have an outlook founded in nihilism.

 

 

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Habitat
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I seem to recall that some philosophers have written that there is still room to 'live in the moment' or 'give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar' and still have an outlook founded in nihilism.

 

 

Naturally he functions in the world, but would a true nihilist ? Hardly, they would be completely careless of their continued existence, because if nothing matters, neither does their existence. It is more a cry for help. It could be construed as, nothing matters, in and of itself, that is external to me, so really a statement that all that matters is my need for meaning, a rather different proposition.

Edited by Habitat

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