cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #26 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: How much do you think legends and myths invoke insight? Percentage wise I wouldn't hazard a guess but legends would require more insight than myths, unless one is looking for insight into WHY someone believes said myths. cormac 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 28, 2019 Author #27 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said: Percentage wise I wouldn't hazard a guess but legends would require more insight than myths, unless one is looking for insight into WHY someone believes said myths. cormac Well, maybe that's what a pilgrimage is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #28 Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Will Due said: Well, maybe that's what a pilgrimage is for. Doubtful as pilgrimages are pretty much performed by those WHO ALREADY believe. Nobody is looking to analyze the "why". cormac 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 28, 2019 Author #29 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: Doubtful as pilgrimages are pretty much performed by those WHO ALREADY believe. Nobody is looking to analyze the "why". cormac Why someone believes? Well if you're interested, for me it started with the gumption of 'why not'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted August 28, 2019 #30 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Legends and myths are external representations of that for which a template already exists, in the mind. There is no tabula rasa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 28, 2019 #31 Share Posted August 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, Will Due said: How much do you think legends and myths invoke insight? It depends on what your doing. Thinking the sun is a god or your going to get punished for a harmless action is not a good insight. Looking for a place where your ancestors lived or why they did something is a good one. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #32 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: Why someone believes? Well if you're interested, for me it started with the gumption of 'why not'. Which is fine until someone runs into verifiable evidence that shows "why" something isn't true, but refuses to accept it because their belief somehow trumps reality. It doesn't. cormac 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted August 28, 2019 #33 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said: Which is fine until someone runs into verifiable evidence that shows "why" something isn't true, but refuses to accept it because their belief somehow trumps reality. It doesn't. cormac There is another side to that coin. Those who insist something cannot be, because there is no evidence available to them. That isn't realism, that is "belief". And those same people decry mere "belief". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #34 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Habitat said: There is another side to that coin. Those who insist something cannot be, because there is no evidence available to them. That isn't realism, that is "belief". And those same people decry mere "belief". And yet you've never seen me claim that "a god" cannot exist, but that the Judeo-Christian God doesn't exist, as it is just a merging of two very distinct and 'human" deities with all the commensurate flaws therein entailed. The one thing that I, and science, have said consistently is that a god IS NOT REQUIRED for Creation to have occurred. Which means for me your argument falls on deaf ears. cormac 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 28, 2019 #35 Share Posted August 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Habitat said: There is another side to that coin. Those who insist something cannot be, because there is no evidence available to them. That isn't realism, that is "belief". And those same people decry mere "belief". What of those who insist something cannot be because of the evidence available to them? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #36 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, joc said: What of those who insist something cannot be because of the evidence available to them? He's fighting for the "all opinions are equal" argument. They aren't and never were. cormac 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted August 28, 2019 #37 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said: one thing that I, and science, have said consistently is that a god IS NOT REQUIRED for Creation to have occurred. Not sure why you imagined that comment was focussed on you, but the idea that "science" is involved in making the judgement implied above, is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted August 28, 2019 #38 Share Posted August 28, 2019 There can be no insight without evidence. Without evidence "insight" is simply being led by base emotions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted August 28, 2019 #39 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Will Due said: Insight or Evidence Like with so many other things, there exists a contradiction in terms between Insight and Evidence. Evidence often hinders a person's inclination towards spiritual exploration; while Insight excersises a person's nature towards spiritual discovery and growth. Which of the two is preferable? Both are preferable. Balance is everything up in this shindig. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #40 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Habitat said: Not sure why you imagined that comment was focussed on you, but the idea that "science" is involved in making the judgement implied above, is nonsense. Not sure why you'd p*** and moan about it if it wasn't. cormac 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #41 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: There can be no insight without evidence. Without evidence "insight" is simply being led by base emotions. Which is a recipe for bad conclusions IMO. cormac 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted August 28, 2019 #42 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said: Not sure why you'd p*** and moan about it if it wasn't. cormac Team Tetchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted August 28, 2019 #43 Share Posted August 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, joc said: What of those who insist something cannot be because of the evidence available to them? Give me an example joc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #44 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, Habitat said: Team Tetchy SSDD, yeah I get it. Moving on. cormac 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 28, 2019 Author #45 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, cormac mac airt said: Which is a recipe for bad conclusions IMO. cormac But not if the emotion incites insight into what's real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 28, 2019 #46 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: But not if the emotion incites insight into what's real. Then it can be verified, FOR EVERYONE. Otherwise it's personal interpretation/confirmation bias at best. cormac 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 28, 2019 #47 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: Give me an example joc. It's a rhetorical question. Not taking your bait. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 28, 2019 #48 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Will Due said: Like with so many other things, there exists a contradiction in terms between Insight and Evidence. Why are special considerations and factors only applied to spiritual matters? Suppose an investigator has evidence that a certain person committed a crime, and also has insight as to WHY they committed the crime. Does one condition (insight) negate the other condition (evidence)? It always amazes me how theists can create special cases for beliefs, that do not apply to any other situation or condition. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 28, 2019 #49 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Will Due said: But not if the emotion incites insight into what's real. One can have insight into what is real. But insight doesn't make it real. It either is or it isn't. Evidence then is the validation or invalidation of that insight. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted August 28, 2019 #50 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, joc said: It's a rhetorical question. Not taking your bait. Not bait joc, I'm just trying to understand what kind of thing you had in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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