Government to ask Queen to suspend Parliament

[TigerBright19]

3 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

There are two problems with a 2nd referendum:

1. The remain MPs are trying to remove the No-Deal option which prevents a large chunk of the UK population voting for what they want. Thats a stitch-up. In fact, I suspect it would result in rioting or worse. A fair referendum has to include all 3 options or it wont be seen as legitimate by at least 17 million people.

2. Bearing in mind MPs have decided not to respect the result of the Brexit referendum they will likely discard the result of the 2nd referendum too if it doesnt produce the remain result they want.

I dont want to see my country torn apart, I dont want to see the death of Democracy, and therefore the only possible way forward is a General Election. Either that or the Queen says 52% of people voted to leave the EU (without a customs union explicitly stated), they are the majority, this is a Democracy, therefore that is the end of the matter. Any MP that fights it can spend 12 months in the slammer reflecting over their subversion of Democracy.

Another problem with a 2nd referendum is that many people would feel cheated if they were asked to vote again.  My family voted to Leave, and they said they have no intention of voting again because they already made their point the first time.  If a large percentage of the nation feel the same then there could be a significant drop in the Leave result next time, because of the growing resentment the public have in our government to actually deliver Brexit.  Then again, I voted remain the first time, and I would vote Leave in a 2nd referendum, so there could be a boost in the Leave vote if enough people decide to switch their vote to Leave next time.

 

[hetrodoxly]

46 minutes ago, Setton said:

If they're both just as good, why not a referendum? What are you so scared of? 

The general election is on offer now.

[Setton]

41 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

So, Boris puts an election before parliament, including date. Parliament can then vote on it.

As previously stated i prefer a peoples vote, a GE where the people can so their gratitude, I mean you'll end up with a NEW Parliament of 100% remain MP's Wont you as people show their gratitude. a Referendum wont show you this. im sure you'll agree, a GE election is best place to show this.

I do not agree. As I've been quite clear. 

I don't see much point discussing further. You're beaten and you know it. 

[Torchwood]

12 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Then let me explain. People like you have been persuaded by the likes of the Guardian & BBC that everyone that voted brexit do so to stop 'brown people' as you put it, coming into the country, if that's the case then can you tell me from which country in europe these 'brown people' come from?

Now thats a stupid assumption you just made.  And that is a stupid attempt at a leading question...

I havn't been "persuaded" anything by the BBC/Guardian . I have been informed by actual Leave Voters who told me, in person, why they voted to leave. These are people I work with, members of my family, and people I drink with in the pub. These are not "people" I've head about 2nd hand, but people so real that in 2 cases I married their daughter. 

Of them just one did not know why she voted to leave ;  "it seemed like a good idea at the time" was her answer to my question. And she thinks Boris is a **** of biblical proportions. 

The rest,a score or so of people, all laid the reasons for Leaving on "brown people";  Pakistanis, Syrians, Muslims. They should all be "sent back" . Not one of them could explain to me how they thought this would work in real life. The closest I ever got to an answer was "they won't have a choice". I have no idea why they thought that Britain leaving the EU would compel British Citizens with, say, Pakistani heritage to leave the country.  I offer no explanation for this, I merely relay what the Leavers that I have met in real life  tell me.  I suspect they don't think that Pakistan/Syria is in the EU, but they seem to be under the impression that any migrants being in the UK is somehow because of the EU.

In some cases this was their only reason for leaving. In others it was merely the main one, along side some nonsense about Vacuum cleaners, one mentioned Polish food (another reason that lacking any sort of explanation) , and some slightly more sensible stuff about liking the idea of a Norway+++ deal.

 If anybody else I've talked to on the subject in real life voted leave they failed to admit this fact. Mostly I get told "I didn't understand it so I didn't vote". 

I do not know if all Leavers voted for the aforementioned reasons , and wouldn't make that claim. I just know that the overwhelming majority of Leavers that I know actually exist voted for those reasons. People on the internet tell me they voted for other reasons, but I am unable to comment on their reliability or even their existence. 

[TigerBright19]

 

43 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Now thats a stupid assumption you just made.  And that is a stupid attempt at a leading question...

I havn't been "persuaded" anything by the BBC/Guardian . I have been informed by actual Leave Voters who told me, in person, why they voted to leave. These are people I work with, members of my family, and people I drink with in the pub. These are not "people" I've head about 2nd hand, but people so real that in 2 cases I married their daughter. 

Of them just one did not know why she voted to leave ;  "it seemed like a good idea at the time" was her answer to my question. And she thinks Boris is a **** of biblical proportions. 

The rest,a score or so of people, all laid the reasons for Leaving on "brown people";  Pakistanis, Syrians, Muslims. They should all be "sent back" . Not one of them could explain to me how they thought this would work in real life. The closest I ever got to an answer was "they won't have a choice". I have no idea why they thought that Britain leaving the EU would compel British Citizens with, say, Pakistani heritage to leave the country.  I offer no explanation for this, I merely relay what the Leavers that I have met in real life  tell me.  I suspect they don't think that Pakistan/Syria is in the EU, but they seem to be under the impression that any migrants being in the UK is somehow because of the EU.

In some cases this was their only reason for leaving. In others it was merely the main one, along side some nonsense about Vacuum cleaners, one mentioned Polish food (another reason that lacking any sort of explanation) , and some slightly more sensible stuff about liking the idea of a Norway+++ deal.

 If anybody else I've talked to on the subject in real life voted leave they failed to admit this fact. Mostly I get told "I didn't understand it so I didn't vote". 

I do not know if all Leavers voted for the aforementioned reasons , and wouldn't make that claim. I just know that the overwhelming majority of Leavers that I know actually exist voted for those reasons. People on the internet tell me they voted for other reasons, but I am unable to comment on their reliability or even their existence. 

There was great concern in 2016 that Turkey would join the EU and all of the refugees would flock to Turkey in order to get into Britain (similar to the millions we saw going to Germany).  There was immense worry that a massive influx of people (regardless of skin colour) entering Britain would cripple the NHS and housing resources, and most importantly 'at that time' increase the risk of terrorism.

Having Turkey join the EU had nothing to do with discrimination.  It was simply a question of inadequate security and limited resources.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Aaron2016

[+OverSword]

40 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

The rest,a score or so of people, all laid the reasons for Leaving on "brown people";  Pakistanis, Syrians, Muslims. They should all be "sent back"

What a load of bull.  Everyone except the one person who seemed unsure of why she voted leave, a score or more (so more than 20) all said "brown people" .  Nobody said because they are afraid of England losing sovereignty, not because of strangling regulations placed on Britain by an unelected body of bureaucrats, not because the euro was dragging the pound down with it, not because the EU's immigration policy is irrational.  No, no.  Brown people.  That is not even close to being believable.  Yes, I don't believe you.  Not for one second.

Edited September 5, 2019 by OverSword

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

So, here you agree taking a stance of No-deal is a bad or no negotiation strategy at all from the UK. so illogical and no position at all. So the question follows who goes into negotiations with such a stance. 

There really isn’t anything to negotiate. The UK has weak position. 

[Unusual Tournament]

33 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

 

There was great concern in 2016 that Turkey would join the EU and all of the refugees would flock to Turkey in order to get into Britain (similar to the millions we saw going to Germany).  There was immense worry that a massive influx of people (regardless of skin colour) entering Britain would cripple the NHS and housing resources, and most importantly 'at that time' increase the risk of terrorism.

Having Turkey join the EU had nothing to do with discrimination.  It was simply a question of inadequate security and limited resources.

Didn’t stop Boris and Co. exploiting it thou. 

[TigerBright19]

"I now declare this country free"

The Queen, 2019

 

[stevewinn]

3 hours ago, Setton said:

I do not agree. As I've been quite clear. 

I don't see much point discussing further. You're beaten and you know it. 

Are you sure? you dont sound to confident to me. **** out of a GE. You cant run from the people forever tick tock.

[stevewinn]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

There really isn’t anything to negotiate. The UK has weak position. 

Absurd. Just like your original notion.

[Unusual Tournament]

5 hours ago, OverSword said:

What a load of bull.  Everyone except the one person who seemed unsure of why she voted leave, a score or more (so more than 20) all said "brown people" .  Nobody said because they are afraid of England losing sovereignty, not because of strangling regulations placed on Britain by an unelected body of bureaucrats, not because the euro was dragging the pound down with it, not because the EU's immigration policy is irrational.  No, no.  Brown people.  That is not even close to being believable.  Yes, I don't believe you.  Not for one second.

Immigration and a false representation of where UK funds were going and what the UK got in return we’re the driving factors of Brexit, IMO. Which is laughable since most “brown” immigrants entered and settled in the UK before joining the EU and did so from past commonwealth countries like India, Pakistan, Africa and the Caribbean. And we all know what rubbish the successful NHS funding bus campaign was. 

But to fully understand the conservative mindset on Brexit you must go back to the Thatcher era. Margaret Thatcher was anti EU in order to politically appeal to those that reminisced over the empire. Of course Thatcher was not dumb and knew on what side the UK buttered it’s bread. Thatcher is gone but the anti EU ideal is well and alive and appropriated by morons of low mental facilities. Much like Ronald Reagan is to American republicans. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Captain Risky

[Unusual Tournament]

6 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Let all the leavers gather around and chant for a comet strike!

All so Boris can declare a national emergency and force through Brexit! Lets go further and pray it hits Corbyn on the head, that red traitor!

And maybe one or two fragments nip Setton, Captain Risky, and Annoying Helen. Sorry folks, you are irritating lol.

 Not as irritating as ending all your posts in lol. Lol

[hetrodoxly]

If parliament have forced a no deal to be taken off the table, vote against a general election again and we have to beg the EU for 'another' extension when there is an election Labour and conservative are dead in the water, a new proper right-wing government will be in No10 forced by those who killed democracy.  

[Helen of Annoy]

12 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

 

There was great concern in 2016 that Turkey would join the EU and all of the refugees would flock to Turkey in order to get into Britain (similar to the millions we saw going to Germany).  There was immense worry that a massive influx of people (regardless of skin colour) entering Britain would cripple the NHS and housing resources, and most importantly 'at that time' increase the risk of terrorism.

Having Turkey join the EU had nothing to do with discrimination.  It was simply a question of inadequate security and limited resources.

 

 

There was absolutely no mention of Turkey joining the EU ever since they took retrograde political course, which was even before 2016, in the sane part of the world and media. And even before that, the main obstacle to Turkey in the EU is the obvious fact that geographically it's predominantly not an European country. 

So was that Turkey suddenly applying for the EU another outright lie from the Brexit campaign? Or it's an outright lie fabricated only now? 

 

Turkey just threatened with releasing more refugees towards Europe, that is the fact, and it coincides nicely with death throes of great wannabe imploders of the EU.  

It will be another humanitarian catastrophe, the same imbeciles will panic again about armed Arabs coming to rape them and blow their apparently easily conquered countries away, but the EU won't fall apart. It will create further division between the wannabe sultan Erdogan and the EU, but that's his problem. Similar to the Brexiters, he too overestimated himself and the leverage he has against the EU.    

 

Now back on topic. It's pure poetry to watch you squirm at the EU door. 

[itsnotoutthere]

https://order-order.com/2019/09/06/labours-galactic-one-day-u-turn/

[Space Commander Travis]

"I'd rather be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit": The Leader. So I think we've all gathered he's utterly fanatical. But then what? What does he imagine will happen then? Does he have any policies for anything at all other than insisting that Brexit will happen when he says it will? Here's a challenge for all his avid admirers: what are his policies on, well, anything at all other than insisting that Brecit will happen? Does he simply believe that Brexit will be a magic spell that will descend over the land and make everything happy and everything work well? The only policy that anyone seems able to discern is to say that "well, splutter, splutter, we'll give all the money we give the EU to the NHS!" Will giving it lots and lots and lots of lovely money suddenly make it magically efficient, customer-focussed and people will no longer have to book appointments to see their GP with a four week lead time (so you have to anticipate in advance what complaints you're likely to have by then)? Suddenly giving, if that was possible and this millions upon millions actually did exist at all, millions upon millions to gigantic bureaucracies just makes gigantic bureaucracies even more gigantic bureaucracies; it doesn't improve their efficiency. Come on, all you fanatical flag-wavers that Boris will deliver us from foreigners; tell us what vision he has for how to lead the nation forward. Go on. 

[TigerBright19]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

There was absolutely no mention of Turkey joining the EU ever since they took retrograde political course, which was even before 2016, in the sane part of the world and media. And even before that, the main obstacle to Turkey in the EU is the obvious fact that geographically it's predominantly not an European country. 

So was that Turkey suddenly applying for the EU another outright lie from the Brexit campaign? Or it's an outright lie fabricated only now? 

 

Turkey just threatened with releasing more refugees towards Europe, that is the fact, and it coincides nicely with death throes of great wannabe imploders of the EU.  

It will be another humanitarian catastrophe, the same imbeciles will panic again about armed Arabs coming to rape them and blow their apparently easily conquered countries away, but the EU won't fall apart. It will create further division between the wannabe sultan Erdogan and the EU, but that's his problem. Similar to the Brexiters, he too overestimated himself and the leverage he has against the EU.    

 

Now back on topic. It's pure poetry to watch you squirm at the EU door. 

There were Leave posters and adverts everywhere back in 2016.  Boris denied he was involved, despite the fact it was a major deciding factor for many at the time.

 

2016 - Vote Leave

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boris denies responsibility for those claims.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Aaron2016

[Helen of Annoy]

@Aaron2016 Well, you've been lied to. Shamelessly. Ridiculously. 

Turkey is not joining the EU, not in 2016, not today, not in foreseeable future. Most likely, never. With their current sultan more than certainly not. And the more they manipulate with refugees, the farther from friendly relations with the EU they are. 

Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia and Albania (and where's Kosovo? where's Bosnia and Herzegovina? why were they left out in this fantasy?) are in fact considering EU membership one day. But they are not 'paid' to join, they are expected to complete very thorough, demanding and lasting processes before they are anywhere near the membership. 

After all, Brexit campaign lied about this in 2016. Who has joined the EU since then? 

Where's that Turkey in the EU? It's 2019. I see only certain Johnson sticking out. No Turks in sight. 

 

Turkey does see the refugees as a leverage and though they don't get the result they hoped for, they threaten with these poor people again and again, because that's all they've got. 

Refugees didn't eat or conquer any of the countries that are on their route, or any of the countries in which they're accepted at the moment, so I'm very certain the possible next wave won't be any different. It will be another mass tragedy, a humanitarian catastrophe, it will be used for another wave of propaganda with intention to spread panic and help neo-Nazis get more votes. Because, apparently, an average white Christian is so clumsy and stupid they can't possibly defend themselves from Arab invasion that consists of hungry, thirsty, tired, scared and begging for help refugees. Jesus. Anyway...  

 

Turkey in the EU... and you believed that piece of fiction?

What else? The Pope is getting married and the EU is paying for the wedding?  

[TigerBright19]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

@Aaron2016 

Turkey in the EU... and you believed that piece of fiction?

What else? The Pope is getting married and the EU is paying for the wedding?  

 

The public can only speculate what they are being told is true or not.  Remember in 2003 we were told that Saddam could fire his WMD in 45 minutes.

 

 

 

 

Politicians may tell a few lies (scaremonger) in order to get their way, but it has been that way for a long time.  Politics and deception sometimes go hand in hand, unfortunately.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Aaron2016

[Duke Wellington]

10 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

 

The public can only speculate what they are being told is true or not.  Remember in 2003 we were told that Saddam could fire his WMD in 45 minutes.

 

 

 

 

Politicians may tell a few lies in order to get their way, but making a case to Leave the European Union is small potatoes when compared to making a case to invade Iraq.

 

 

I think you will find we knew Saddam Hussein had WMDs because we sold them to him. We shipped them across to use against Iranians.

[RAyMO]

9 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

The public can only speculate what they are being told is true or not.  Remember in 2003 we were told that Saddam could fire his WMD in 45 minutes.

speculate is too timid a word. The public can accept what they are told by those who deem themselves important enough to tell others how to think, or the public can do a bit of research and come to reasoned conclusions.

It was pointed out at the time of the referendum that turkey's membership was not likely. Furthermore it was the UK, not others in Europe, who were actively pushing for Turkey to become a member.

[RAyMO]

12 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I think you will find we knew Saddam Hussein had WMDs because we sold them to him. We shipped them across to use against Iranians.

Did we find said WMDs then?

This is an interesting take on WMDs and what happened. https://www.historytoday.com/what-did-happen-saddam’s-wmd

Edited September 6, 2019 by RAyMO

[Duke Wellington]

18 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Did we find said WMDs then?

This is an interesting take on WMDs and what happened. https://www.historytoday.com/what-did-happen-saddam’s-wmd

We sold them to him and he used them.

The claim is that when we went into Iraq he actually no longer had them. I suspect they were buried or stored for the future.

[Setton]

7 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

If parliament have forced a no deal to be taken off the table, vote against a general election again and we have to beg the EU for 'another' extension when there is an election Labour and conservative are dead in the water, a new proper right-wing government will be in No10 forced by those who killed democracy.  

Well you're right that if such a government comes to pass, democracy is dead.