Government to ask Queen to suspend Parliament

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

and don't forget Kinnock amendment which was passed by accident it seems allows for the May Agreement to be brought back to the house, though even that is doubtful about that particular amendment.

May's deal or surrender as it should be known can come back as many times as the speaker allows. 

34 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

I cant see Boris going for it, but there seems to be some movement back to Mays deal from the likes of Rory Stewart. Apparently there's some thought that if they can't stop Boris pushing for No deal then they might be able to scare enough of the commons into getting Mays Deal across the line. 

Hilarious in its way if true, and if they manage it, imagine if Boris's legacy as PM is that he lost 100% of all votes in the Commons and the only bills passed on his watch were by the Opposition and the Previous PM! For me, It'd almost make Brexit worth it...

If parliament passed the WA then we'd be finished as a country. So much so I'd expect it to be signed in a train carriage in the forest of Compiègne. 

[Setton]

15 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

May's deal or surrender as it should be known can come back as many times as the speaker allows. 

If parliament passed the WA then we'd be finished as a country. So much so I'd expect it to be signed in a train carriage in the forest of Compiègne. 

Well, you voted for it in 2016.

[stevewinn]

38 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

For those who missed it, this week the UK Parliament voted to stop a General Election and voted to extend Article 50. The majority of our MPs are not with the people and are blocking all possible routes to Brexit.

Today Boris has said he will not ask for that extension so when Parliament reconvenes there will be some fireworks. Will the UK PM go down in world history as the only ever leader of a Democracy to be imprisoned for Contempt of Parliament for actually representing the Democratic Will of the people? I bet Cromwell never thought such a day would come. Disgraceful!

Why do I suspect we are a month out from mass rioting?

You raise a good point. the quietly glossed over fact that both John major and Gina Miller last week both looked like fools when they lost their court cases. The legal challenges have all been booted out of court so far I cannot see that changing.

And what the remoaners are asking for is for Boris not to do whats been done before by previous Prime Ministers And which was all legal by the way. Boris can simply follow suit, ignore, or veto. Test it in the courts we'd be out by then anyway a let's face it Blair never went to jail for Iraq and nor is Boris for delivering democracy. (worth remembering May didn't have to ask for an extension) 

One gets the feeling the remoaners bums are starting to twitch. 

Tick Tock. 

[stevewinn]

8 minutes ago, Setton said:

Well, you voted for it in 2016.

Yes because in your world Leaving the EU is the same as remaining. 

[stevewinn]

Here's one little Bum that's twitching. I wonder why. Rumour has it remainers have not only been out foxed but shot their fox it as. 

 

[stevewinn]

I'll give you a clue if any of the above is true. Then expect the opposition to call a vote of no confidence next week. Because it seems the remoaners aren't so clever after all. Seemed to have a made a monumental c*** up in turning down the GE:

[L.A.T.1961]

45 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

 

Today Boris has said he will not ask for that extension so when Parliament reconvenes there will be some fireworks. Will the UK PM go down in world history as the only ever leader of a Democracy to be imprisoned for Contempt of Parliament for actually representing the Democratic Will of the people?

Given the animated state of Dominic Grieve on TV news earlier the idea of Boris not complying with their new shiny law is giving remainers nightmares.

Boris need not be serious about ignoring the new law but remainers will believe their own view of Boris, that he is Satan's spawn, and ignoring the law is a forgone conclusion.

Which must be the plan.

To guarantee an approach to Brussels, for an extension, there now needs to be a pro EU party in control, forcing a U turn on remainers and an election called on Monday.

So Boris gets his way and if no election is agreed then Brussels will have to take Boris serious when he implies he will not ask for an extension and so no deal is still on the table.

This puts his negotiating hand with Brussels back where it was before the surrender bill was passed and time has now mostly run out for remainers do anything else before Parliament closes next week. 

 

[stevewinn]

For those who don't believe. 

https://www.gov.uk/brexit

 

[Setton]

19 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Here's one little Bum that's twitching. I wonder why. Rumour has it remainers have not only been out foxed but shot their fox it as. 

 

If Johnson doesn't request the extension, he is breaking the law and will be replaced by a PM that understands no one is above the law. He will also be destroying his party, probably forever. 

[Torchwood]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

When you say a stones throw away from the airport. If you threw that stone would it land by a water tower? 

No. 

[hetrodoxly]

Listening to LBC radio today and a couple of interesting points were made, the government could propose a vote of no confidence in it's self, the other parties would have to have a vote of confidence in Boris to stop an election, another point is no length of time was added to the bill in asking for an extension, Boris could ask for a day or a week. 

[Duke Wellington]

17 minutes ago, Setton said:

If Johnson doesn't request the extension, he is breaking the law and will be replaced by a PM that understands no one is above the law. He will also be destroying his party, probably forever. 

I expect Boris to be held in Contempt of Parliament (once it reconvenes) for not asking the EU for an extension to Article 50.

The normal process would be to give him a chance to rectify his inaction. He should tell Parliament he will act, but essentially lie and do nothing. He should use his passport to go on holiday overseas until the 1st of November 2019 instead of flying to Brussels. In fact he should be cheeky, and go on holiday to Belgium just to wind the remainers up.

He should stay on his hols until the 1st of November 2019 or until Parliament passes a vote of no confidence in him. If that gets passed then Boris can legally force the General Election he is after. There is no other mechanism to remove an absent PM. If the UK Government try to extradite him for being in Contempt of Parliament he should challenge it in the Belgian Courts to stall the process.

[stevewinn]

26 minutes ago, Setton said:

If Johnson doesn't request the extension, he is breaking the law and will be replaced by a PM that understands no one is above the law. He will also be destroying his party, probably forever. 

But the Bill has into Law yet, and who says it will.

As it stands the action taken by Boris as been backed by the courts.

tick tock.

prorogue of Parliament is fast approaching.

tick tock.

October 31st.

[RAyMO]

32 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I expect Boris to be held in Contempt of Parliament (once it reconvenes) for not asking the EU for an extension to Article 50.

The normal process would be to give him a chance to rectify his inaction. He should tell Parliament he will act, but essentially lie and do nothing. He should use his passport to go on holiday overseas until the 1st of November 2019 instead of flying to Brussels. In fact he should be cheeky, and go on holiday to Belgium just to wind the remainers up.

He should stay on his hols until the 1st of November 2019 or until Parliament passes a vote of no confidence in him. If that gets passed then Boris can legally force the General Election he is after. There is no other mechanism to remove an absent PM. If the UK Government try to extradite him for being in Contempt of Parliament he should challenge it in the Belgian Courts to stall the process.

if he did that the timing would allow a vote of no confidence to be passed and an interim govt established with a pm who would go to Brussels. That interim govt could also call an election after the 31 October.

The only hope, some have is that the bill doesn't receive Royal Assent in the normal way,  but that is really highly unlikely as legal action would force through Royal Assent given that it has passed both houses. The prorogue of parliament has no effect on this as parliament returns before the dates in question. if at that stage the govt still play silly burgers then a vote of confidence can be applied as above. 

The short story is that Dominic has advised the PM how to play the cards and together they have  made a complete hash of it.

Oh you have one other hope - France, they may be ready to veto any extension - this would seem to be the PM's best hope.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by RAyMO

[Duke Wellington]

8 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

if he did that the timing would allow a vote of no confidence to be passed and an interim govt established with a pm who would go to Brussels. That interim govt could also call an election after the 31 October.

The only hope, some have is that the bill doesn't receive Royal Assent in the normal way,  but that is really highly unlikely as legal action would force through Royal Assent given that it has passed both houses. The prorogue of parliament has no effect on this as parliament returns before the dates in question.

The short story is that Dominic has advised the PM how to play the cards and together they have  made a complete hash of it.

Oh you have one other hope - France, they may be ready to veto any extension - this would seem to be the PM's best hope.

 

A passed vote of no confidence is not the same as an internal party leadership contest.

With the vote of no confidence the Prime Minster gets 2 weeks to either call a General Election or to resign and let someone else lead his party. If the decision isn't made at the end of the 2 weeks its an automatic General Election.

[RAyMO]

15 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

With the vote of no confidence the Prime Minster gets 2 weeks to either call a General Election or to resign and let someone else lead his party.

wrong on all counts.

the prime minister cannot call a general election during the 14 day period. The period allows for other parties to form an alliance if necessary and present themselves as an alternative government, or for the existing government to show it has regained the confidence of the house. If neither of those things happen an election is mandated.

In other words effectively the government has lost control during the 14 days and only gaining majority support among mps will let it continue irrespective of who it chooses as a leader.

think about why table a motion under the FTA which requires 2/3 majority, if he could get his election, far more easily,  with a simple majority via a motion of no confidence in himself.

Edited September 7, 2019 by RAyMO

[stevewinn]

just been pointed out on the TV by a MP, rather good point. On Boris ignoring to ask for extension.

What's being passed It is not a criminal law creating a new crime. There are no proposed penalties, fines or prison sentences in it should the PM not obey it. It is not  a general law applying equally to all of us, nor even a law always applying to government.  It is a Parliamentary instruction or political opinion on one issue at one time passed as a law. and any case brought to court would be threw out. 

[Setton]

58 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

But the Bill has into Law yet, and who says it will.

Literally everyone. All it needs is Royal Assent which it will receive. 

Unless, in your fantasy, the Queen is going to throw our democratic system out of the window? 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

I expect Boris to be held in Contempt of Parliament (once it reconvenes) for not asking the EU for an extension to Article 50.

If he doesn't follow the law, he will be taken to court like anyone else. The minute that Bill gets Royal Assent, this is a legal matter, not political. If he refuses, he is breaking the law. 

[RAyMO]

11 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

just been pointed out on the TV by a MP, rather good point. On Boris ignoring to ask for extension.

What's being passed It is not a criminal law creating a new crime. There are no proposed penalties, fines or prison sentences in it should the PM not obey it. It is not  a general law applying equally to all of us, nor even a law always applying to government.  It is a Parliamentary instruction or political opinion on one issue at one time passed as a law. and any case brought to court would be threw out. 

But if taken to court and ordered to comply with the law, and he refuses he can be jailed for contempt. Other legal minds believe this would be the likely outcome of non compliance.

Edited September 7, 2019 by RAyMO

[spud the mackem]

Are Remainers running out of dirty tricks ,there can't be many left ,they only have 54 days left to think up more, unless they are plotting to ban Boris from T.V.  or worse . The B.B.C would cheerfully ban him if they had the cojones .

[stevewinn]

9 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

But if taken to court and ordered to comply with the law, and he refuses he can be jailed for contempt. Other legal minds believe this would be the likely outcome of non compliance.

I'd like to see that tested.

[stevewinn]

16 minutes ago, Setton said:

Literally everyone. All it needs is Royal Assent which it will receive. 

Unless, in your fantasy, the Queen is going to throw our democratic system out of the window? 

literally hey, maybe it will be passed maybe it wont, maybe it will apply maybe it wont.

[RoofGardener]

12 minutes ago, Setton said:

If he doesn't follow the law, he will be taken to court like anyone else. The minute that Bill gets Royal Assent, this is a legal matter, not political. If he refuses, he is breaking the law. 

Hmm.. Royal Assent. 

What happens if the Queen declines to give it assent ? Is there any precedent for this ? 

[stevewinn]

4 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

Are Remainers running out of dirty tricks ,there can't be many left ,they only have 54 days left to think up more, unless they are plotting to ban Boris from T.V.  or worse . The B.B.C would cheerfully ban him if they had the cojones .

well it seems the remainer parliament is making up laws as it goes along, There is already UK case law that states that governments cannot modify laws to make previous illegal actions legal. A Judge will roll back to the original law that UK was to leave on March 29th. Parliament is bound by the law and cannot make it up as it goes along as they are attempting.