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Government to ask Queen to suspend Parliament

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OverSword
7 hours ago, Setton said:

The PM and his supporters are the traitors working to undermine our democracy.

I’m no expert on what’s been going on in your government but it seems to me that there has been years to work this out but pm’s opposed to leaving the EU according to the will of the voters have been dragging their feet probably in order to delay leaving. There is no deal because of them. If Johnson is high jacking the government they should take him to court. Will they? Why not!

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stevewinn
8 hours ago, OverSword said:

I’m no expert on what’s been going on in your government but it seems to me that there has been years to work this out but pm’s opposed to leaving the EU according to the will of the voters have been dragging their feet probably in order to delay leaving. There is no deal because of them. If Johnson is high jacking the government they should take him to court. Will they? Why not!

Exactly right, The remoanier MP's have done everything they possibly can over the last 3 years. they've done everything to block and cancel Brexit at every turn, even though they are not the Govt they've had behind closed door meetings with the EU commission. god knows what they were saying, as no minutes where taken, but you can bet its was to brief against the British Govt.

We have to look at the facts these MP's are the first generation of MP's who want to overturn a Democratic vote. they want to be the first ones to ignore the mandate from the ballot box. when your citizens vote 17.4million, - the single biggest vote in your countries history for leaving the EU and a number of MP's want to overturn that then what do you call them? traitors in every sense of the word. democracy deniers. 

Its a good job Boris Johnson as used Parliamentary rules to check these rogue MP's. don't forget these are the same MP;s who voted to wrestle power away from the Govt and take over the running from the democratically elected Govt. 

lets recap.

Parliament (MP's) vote 544 to 53 to hold a referendum.

The Result is in The people by a majority have voted to Leave the EU. 17.4million vote to leave.

Parliament (MP's) vote 498 to 114 to trigger article 50. (giving official notification of the UK's Leaving of the EU)

During the 2 year negotiation period between the UK & EU, a number of MP's supported by people like @Setton on here have been unable to concede defeat. they've then done all they can to stall our leaving of the EU and ultimately want to stop it entirely working against their own country.

to put this into perspective. if the referendum result in 2016 was a General election.

The Leave party would have won by a landslide with 67.6% of the vote. Resulting in the Leave party winning 270 seats and the Remain party winning just 129 seats. 75% of Tory constituencies voted Leave. 61% of Labour constituencies voted leave.

Now If people like @Setton believe Boris Johnson is a traitor for delivering the Referendum result. then my god what are the MP's who are trying to stop the Referendum result being fulfilled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by stevewinn
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Sir Smoke aLot

Who knows, maybe kings and queens are what we need. Politicians should only decide about things on local level because everything they are good for is making problems and fighting.

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itsnotoutthere
17 hours ago, Setton said:

No, they haven't. They handed the in or out decision to us. Not the how it should be fulfilled. That is the role of Parliament. If they are unable, it is the role of the people. It is not, and never has been, the role of the PM. 

You do realise that the Queen is constitutionally unable to refuse a request to prorogue Parliament? 

Again, because she is unable to refuse. 

The PM and his supporters are the traitors working to undermine our democracy. 

Irony.........obviously

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Cookie Monster
5 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Who knows, maybe kings and queens are what we need. Politicians should only decide about things on local level because everything they are good for is making problems and fighting.

The problem is that while the majority of the UK population voted to leave the EU the majority of MPs want to remain.

Mrs May tried to reach the middle ground but couldn't get an exit clause. The real reason being that the EU do not want us to leave so will not give us the deal that we want. Therefore her deal failed to get a majority in Parliament and she lost her job.

Parliament continues to frustrate the Democratic Will of the British Public because the majority of MPs do not want a clean break from the EU. They dont want Boris to prorogue Parliament because that is their EU dream over. So they will try any means possible to stop him.

The Queen needs to intervene. She needs to say the majority of the UK population voted to leave, we are hereby leaving, and due to the failure of our Democracy all MPs are hereby sacked and we are going for a General Election as well.

I would also like to see a list of whether MPs wanted to leave or remain. My area voted over 60% to leave so if my MP has been frustrating Parliament I want to know so that I can avoid voting for him again. Thats Democracy! Something these morons dont respect.

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Space Commander Travis
35 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

The Queen needs to intervene.

To stop the mad dictator before he abolishes Parliament permanently? At least Hitler had the grace to actually be elected before he abolished parliament. :mellow: 

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Cookie Monster
9 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

To stop the mad dictator before he abolishes Parliament permanently? At least Hitler had the grace to actually be elected before he abolished parliament. :mellow: 

You actually want a response to that?

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Space Commander Travis
6 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Who knows, maybe kings and queens are what we need. Politicians should only decide about things on local level because everything they are good for is making problems and fighting.

There's a lot to be said for that actually. Politicians can only think a few years ahead at any one time, just as far as the next election* , perhaps it takes a hereditary monarch to be able to think in the long term 

* although Boris may be putting a stop to that 

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Space Commander Travis
2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

You actually want a response to that?

that's the kind of thing you usually say, usually followed by lol. 

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

The problem is that while the majority of the UK population voted to leave the EU the majority of MPs want to remain.

Mrs May tried to reach the middle ground but couldn't get an exit clause. The real reason being that the EU do not want us to leave so will not give us the deal that we want. Therefore her deal failed to get a majority in Parliament and she lost her job.

Parliament continues to frustrate the Democratic Will of the British Public because the majority of MPs do not want a clean break from the EU. They dont want Boris to prorogue Parliament because that is their EU dream over. So they will try any means possible to stop him.

The Queen needs to intervene. She needs to say the majority of the UK population voted to leave, we are hereby leaving, and due to the failure of our Democracy all MPs are hereby sacked and we are going for a General Election as well.

I would also like to see a list of whether MPs wanted to leave or remain. My area voted over 60% to leave so if my MP has been frustrating Parliament I want to know so that I can avoid voting for him again. Thats Democracy! Something these morons dont respect.

Whole mess made over decision made by majority. I always believed it's bad decision but it should have been delivered, because people voted it.

That's why i say how we might need kings. They would deliver without allowing any representative or foreign elements to interfere. Actually, every nation might benefit from such figures.

34 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

There's a lot to be said for that actually. Politicians can only think a few years ahead at any one time, just as far as the next election* , perhaps it takes a hereditary monarch to be able to think in the long term 

* although Boris may be putting a stop to that 

I predict that Europe will return to monarchies in next 20 years :D

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Helen of Annoy
1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Whole mess made over decision made by majority. I always believed it's bad decision but it should have been delivered, because people voted it.

That's why i say how we might need kings. They would deliver without allowing any representative or foreign elements to interfere. Actually, every nation might benefit from such figures.

Don't be naive. One king is much easier to manipulate than a bunch of constantly fighting politicians from as many parties as possible. 

Look at the US. Their parties reduced to two - not identical but still obviously - twins, both dedicated to the corporate interests only. They've got no king, only presidents with archaically lot of power. In a civilized country, the president (or royals) is there to pin the medals and lay wreaths. In the US, one illiterate and/or compromised president can apparently wreck the country. 

In short, it's just too dangerous to give a lot of power to one person, even if that person seems sane. Not to mention how dangerous is hereditary power. Any drooling moron could end up a king, as it would happen through history, with devastating consequences for the country. And no legal means to remove the imbecile. Of course, that's what poison is for, but a country that has to urgently poison a king opens itself to inner fights for power, which never ends well.  

 

1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I predict that Europe will return to monarchies in next 20 years :D

Of course not.

Not only because the monarchies are cute, dusty remnant from the times long gone, but also because Europe will be a super-state by then. There's no chance anyone could, not even hypothetically, claim that throne.

(But I will humorously suggest Hapsburgs, just to rattle the cage of the chronic Brexiters who are reading this. Slowly.) 

 

 

 

The funniest detail about this apparent collapse of English democracy is that Brexiters were scaring people with some imaginary evil EU that does not elect heads of EU bodies in direct elections. Imagine the horror, they're appointed, the same way ministers are appointed to any national government. 

And now they've got a guy who somehow elbowed his way into PM seat, by the will of handful of members of a party that somehow, hardly, squeezed itself into power, by minimal majority achieved through coalition with... oh-my-god-they-can't-be-legal type of political blight.

And there's more. That guy is suspending the Parliament now, so it doesn't get in the way of Brexit, for which the slight majority voted 3 years ago, in non-binding referendum, after highly misleading and outright lying Brexiter campaign. 

The worst part is that these people do not feel any shame. They're in fact proud that they manipulated and cheated their way to their goal. And the goal is as selfish as possible, yielding profit for the narrow circle of manipulators, while the common people will pay the full price. Most likely, it will speed up the natural process of dissolution of an outdated monarchy too.  

What a role-model, what a reason to believe these people can lecture the EU about democracy or transparency. 

 

It's like watching a cautionary tale in real life. 

Oh, well. Looking at the bright side, the Brexit is going so well it already cured other possible -exiters of any desire to follow their exceptionalist example.  

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stevewinn
3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

The problem is that while the majority of the UK population voted to leave the EU the majority of MPs want to remain.

Mrs May tried to reach the middle ground but couldn't get an exit clause. The real reason being that the EU do not want us to leave so will not give us the deal that we want. Therefore her deal failed to get a majority in Parliament and she lost her job.

Parliament continues to frustrate the Democratic Will of the British Public because the majority of MPs do not want a clean break from the EU. They dont want Boris to prorogue Parliament because that is their EU dream over. So they will try any means possible to stop him.

The Queen needs to intervene. She needs to say the majority of the UK population voted to leave, we are hereby leaving, and due to the failure of our Democracy all MPs are hereby sacked and we are going for a General Election as well.

I would also like to see a list of whether MPs wanted to leave or remain. My area voted over 60% to leave so if my MP has been frustrating Parliament I want to know so that I can avoid voting for him again. Thats Democracy! Something these morons dont respect.

http://www.TheyWorkForYou.com

 

 

 

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Cookie Monster
2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Mine voted against gay rights, against the smoking ban, against laws to promote equality and human rights, voted for the Brexit referendum, against the right of EU nationals here to get British citizenship, and voted for Brexit!!

He also voted to reduce housing benefit, against raising welfare benefits even to match price increases, against increases to disability allowance, consistently voted to reduce spending on welfare benefits, and voted against spending tax payers money to create jobs for young people. I live in one of the most deprived areas of the UK so I found that lot funny.

Reading on this guy is so right-wing he is bonkers. I like him, I will vote for him again! lol.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Space Commander Travis
28 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Mine voted against gay rights, against the smoking ban, against laws to promote equality and human rights, voted for the Brexit referendum, against the right of EU nationals here to get British citizenship, and voted for Brexit!!

He also voted to reduce housing benefit, against raising welfare benefits even to match price increases, against increases to disability allowance, consistently voted to reduce spending on welfare benefits, and voted against spending tax payers money to create jobs for young people. I live in one of the most deprived areas of the UK so I found that lot funny.

Reading on this guy is so right-wing he is bonkers. I like him, I will vote for him again! lol.

well, proof once again that if people will insist on going out and voting they get whatever publicity-hungry idiot puts themselves forward. They really do deserve it by pandering to the egos of these idiots.  I mean this twit, whoever he is, obviously set out to be the caricature of the ultra-right wing Tory, and he clearly found enough people gullible enough to take him seriously.

I bet he's actually a Sacha Baron Cohen character, he invented him as a caricature of the tory buffoon and, just to make the joke even better, decided to stand for election. Imagine his amazement and bemusement when he was actually elected! :rofl:  It would make a great comedy film. 

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome
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Space Commander Travis

Does he believe that women should be allowed to vote, or was that a step too far in his book?

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Sir Smoke aLot
15 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Don't be naive. One king is much easier to manipulate than a bunch of constantly fighting politicians from as many parties as possible. 

It's true but i would rather risk with one king than with 1000's of those who want to be kings.

15 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Look at the US. Their parties reduced to two - not identical but still obviously - twins, both dedicated to the corporate interests only. They've got no king, only presidents with archaically lot of power. In a civilized country, the president (or royals) is there to pin the medals and lay wreaths. In the US, one illiterate and/or compromised president can apparently wreck the country. 

Exactly the reason why we might be better of with despots :D

15 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

In short, it's just too dangerous to give a lot of power to one person, even if that person seems sane. Not to mention how dangerous is hereditary power. Any drooling moron could end up a king, as it would happen through history, with devastating consequences for the country. And no legal means to remove the imbecile. Of course, that's what poison is for, but a country that has to urgently poison a king opens itself to inner fights for power, which never ends well.  

Tell me what is the difference between power being on one man's hands or in powerful lobby and interest group where few people share the power from shadow?  Like what that Iraqi weights lifting champ said (man who destroyed Saddam's statue) : '' we had one Saddam, now we have hundreds ''. And not only there, such stories can be heard across the world with usually corporate interests being blamed.

I would place my bet that corporate mafia had it's fingers in Amazon fires too, to make land for more cattle and agriculture as it makes money, forest does not.

That's why i joke about ''monarchies in next 20 years'' because it seems that situation if quite wrong and needs to be changed. Was this progress? To get to the point where we are pretty much in never ending political struggle where individual or party interests (and popularity) are put ahead of national priorities and decisions.

That is dangerous too, possibly as much as to have power in one man's hands. There are people with integrity, honorable people to place bets on them and give them power.

''System'' tried to replace dictators but in the process the system has became worse than that which it had to replace. It really is something to feel bad about but what is the solution? I've cited one author and his ''radically wrong world will need radical changes'' line. I hope it won't come to that.

As for Britain, well i do not know it's internal politics but as someone form the outside i can only say why not, maybe they grow faster and stronger without the EU but will it be worth it if other leading nations also undermine EU in near future?

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Helen of Annoy

@Sir Smoke aLot Since your awareness of the situation is more than satisfactory, I believe you'll soon stop entertaining the bizarre idea of a benevolent dictator. Such animal does not exist. 

Also, in a world much more complex than it was 500 years ago, no single man can keep up with every detail crucial for decision-making on state level, and every detail is crucial on that level. 

Again, look at the US, where presidents hold too much power in their single pair of hands. Theoretical risk of a mad king screwing up the whole kingdom, putting every ally in danger, is suddenly the reality. And it may evaporate us all. (It won't, but it may, just enough for anyone sane to conclude they must do something about that particular archaic problem of theirs.)

 

As for Britain, their own arrogance was their end. 

They kept being absorbed with their inner power fights, completely ignoring how it reflects on their international position. Because, hey, they're British, exceptional by birth. Of course the EU will beg them to stay... so they can keep ****ting on everything everyone else wants accomplished, because it benefits everyone. 

Yeah, exceptional they are... 

Not that the natural geopolitical processes can be stopped, but they managed to speed up those they were trying to avoid. 

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RoofGardener

Hmm.. there appears to be a recurring theme... that a US president (and President Trump in particular) are power-mad despots, almost equivalent to the Kings of Old, complete with a divine right to rule. 

If that is the case in the USA, then can somebody explain to me how the "overwhelming power" of the President keeps getting blocked by the courts ? 

It seems that almost every initiative or executive order by President Trump is picked up by some pressure group or another (or just the "stop everything Trump  tries to do" brigade), and taken to a cherry-picked judge to declare it illegal. 

This is hardly the signs of an authoritarian system with an 'out-of-control' executive ! 

Bringing us back on-topic; the same is true of Boris Johnson. He has followed Parliamentary procedure, precedent, and rules. Nothing he has done with this prorogation malarkey is contrary to the rules, or of precedent. It's just that the remainers hate the fact that he is about to succeed, and fulfil the promise of the referendum. So suddenly he is a "tin pot dictator", for following rules that have existed for a very long time, and with which they had no problem before. 

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Helen of Annoy
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. there appears to be a recurring theme... that a US president (and President Trump in particular) are power-mad despots, almost equivalent to the Kings of Old, complete with a divine right to rule. 

If that is the case in the USA, then can somebody explain to me how the "overwhelming power" of the President keeps getting blocked by the courts ? 

It seems that almost every initiative or executive order by President Trump is picked up by some pressure group or another (or just the "stop everything Trump  tries to do" brigade), and taken to a cherry-picked judge to declare it illegal. 

This is hardly the signs of an authoritarian system with an 'out-of-control' executive ! 

It would be much less ridiculous if the American judges didn't have to defend their Constitution from a guy who was supposed to mean it when he swore to protect it and such. 

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Bringing us back on-topic; the same is true of Boris Johnson. He has followed Parliamentary procedure, precedent, and rules. Nothing he has done with this prorogation malarkey is contrary to the rules, or of precedent. It's just that the remainers hate the fact that he is about to succeed, and fulfil the promise of the referendum. So suddenly he is a "tin pot dictator", for following rules that have existed for a very long time, and with which they had no problem before. 

Speaking of which, a PM having an option to silence the Parliament at will is an aberration from democracy. 

You too have some serious updating to do. As soon as you've got no one else to disturb your sovereignty. 

 

Not to mention that just because an act may be excused as not illegal, does not guarantee it's not damaging and shameful. 

Boris will get what he wants, Aron will get what he wants, Vladimir too... and you'll get only that, what you deserve. 

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RoofGardener
4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It would be much less ridiculous if the American judges didn't have to defend their Constitution from a guy who was supposed to mean it when he swore to protect it and such. 

Except they're not defending the constitution. Each time one of these  'blocking' orders reaches the Supreme Court (who ARE the arbiters of the constitution), it is thrown out. 

5 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Speaking of which, a PM having an option to silence the Parliament at will is an aberration from democracy. 

I'd absolutely agree. Fortunately, that is not the situation in the UK. 

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Helen of Annoy
29 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Except they're not defending the constitution. Each time one of these  'blocking' orders reaches the Supreme Court (who ARE the arbiters of the constitution), it is thrown out. 

I'd absolutely agree. Fortunately, that is not the situation in the UK. 

So, the American not-at-all-wannabe-dictator is supported with loyal to the party supreme court judges, nothing's against their interpretations of the law, only against the interests of the country, decency and common sense. How admirable. 

Almost as admirable as your Johnson using exotic option that no real democracy has, of throwing Parliament out of his way of carrying out his will. Which is supposed to represent the will of the slightest majority of people, expressed 3 years ago, which can never be questioned again, despite the lies of the Brexiter campaign are now obvious. 

The reason why 'conservative' options can impose their narrow interests through such highly disgusting abuses of system is that apparently only the conservatives today are so utterly shameless. And short-sighted enough to believe their profit today is more important than the survival of the state which guarantees their nice parasitic existence.  

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RoofGardener
2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

So, the American not-at-all-wannabe-dictator is supported with loyal to the party supreme court judges, nothing's against their interpretations of the law, only against the interests of the country, decency and common sense. How admirable. 

Almost as admirable as your Johnson using exotic option that no real democracy has, of throwing Parliament out of his way of carrying out his will. Which is supposed to represent the will of the slightest majority of people, expressed 3 years ago, which can never be questioned again, despite the lies of the Brexiter campaign are now obvious. 

The reason why 'conservative' options can impose their narrow interests through such highly disgusting abuses of system is that apparently only the conservatives today are so utterly shameless. And short-sighted enough to believe their profit today is more important than the survival of the state which guarantees their nice parasitic existence.  

Yup.. that's about the size of it :D 

We voted to leave three years ago. We've had three years of prevarication. Finally, a politician is taking the bull by the horns, and implementing the result of the referendum. 

Remember.. parliament was ALWAYS against leaving. We can't trust THEM to organise Brexit, because they don't WANT Brexit. 

All power to Boris Johnson's elbows !

Edited by RoofGardener
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Setton
22 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yup.. that's about the size of it :D 

We voted to leave three years ago. We've had three years of prevarication. Finally, a politician is taking the bull by the horns, and implementing the result of the referendum. 

Remember.. parliament was ALWAYS against leaving. We can't trust THEM to organise Brexit, because they don't WANT Brexit. 

All power to Boris Johnson's elbows !

And yet the people voted these representatives in in 2017.

Why does 'the will of the people' from 2016 carry more weight than in a more recent vote in 2017? 

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RoofGardener
21 minutes ago, Setton said:

And yet the people voted these representatives in in 2017.

Why does 'the will of the people' from 2016 carry more weight than in a more recent vote in 2017? 

A general election is fought over a wide range of issues, not just Brexit. You cannot parse the results as being  mandate for - or against - Brexit. At least, not accurately. 

The referendum was a specific, focused question. It is an accurate barometer of peoples wishes on the topic. 

Also.. because I say so. Now silence, low born oaf, and peel me another grape ! :D 

Edited by RoofGardener

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L.A.T.1961
3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

As for Britain, their own arrogance was their end. 

They kept being absorbed with their inner power fights, completely ignoring how it reflects on their international position.

 

 

Edited by L.A.T.1961
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