Jodie.Lynne Posted September 4, 2019 #51 Share Posted September 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Will Due said: Since you're no fool and you know those things written in the Bible attributing evil to God are erroneous and cannot be true, Question: Did your god create everything? If "NO", then your god isn't the creator god, is he? If "YES", then he created evil as well as good, did he not? Question: Does the UB supersede and replace the bible of the Hebrews and Christians? If "NO", then what you've posted is false. If "YES", then the UB has no provenance, no foundation to stand on. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 4, 2019 #52 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: he created evil as well as good, did he not? Why is this so hard to understand? God did not and does NOT create evil. It goes like this if I may be so bold, in the universe, all is good. Evil only exists when it is chosen by those who refuse to cooperate with the fact that in the universe, all is good. If you please, quit ascribing knowingly and deliberately the forces of evil to God when it's just a free will choice. The only thing God had to do with it is that he created you with every capability to know the difference between right and wrong and to avoid choosing evil instead of aligning yourself with good. Edited September 4, 2019 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted September 4, 2019 #53 Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Will Due said: Why is this so hard to understand? God did not and does create evil. Why is it so friggin hard for you to answer one simple question? DID YOUR GOD CREATE EVERYTHING? YES or NO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 4, 2019 #54 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Why is it so friggin hard for you to answer one simple question? DID YOUR GOD CREATE EVERYTHING? YES or NO Yes. Everything other than the good or evil that you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted September 4, 2019 #55 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) On 8/29/2019 at 7:39 AM, Ellapennella said: So many people mistakenly believe that Ramses 2 was the Pharaoh who live under The Exodus, it is seen in many movies about Moses and The Exodus. https://www.bibletimeline66.com/egyptian-chronology-and-the-bible Egyptologists use the Bible to date the start of the 22nd Dynasty to 945BC. They then date Ramesses 2 based on that 22nd Dynasty date They then find no evidence for the Exodus and the Conquest in the time of Ramesses They, therefore, reject the Bible as a work of 'pious fiction' So the Bible is used to establish Egyptian chronology which is then used to dismiss the Bible. This a prime example of a circular argument. Thanks very much for your opinion on this subject, but I live by a very very simple code. Man wrote the Bible + Man makes mistakes = The Bible isn't a perfect document of history that is set in stone. It is however, a manuscript that is being constantly updated when previously unknown manuscripts are found. A good example of this are the Dead Sea Scrolls Newly released discovery from the book of Mark.: https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/may-web-only/mark-manuscript-earliest-not-first-century-fcm.html Additional New Testament discovers: https://bible.org/article/greek-new-testament-manuscripts-discovered-albania New information from the Dead Sea Scrolls: http://www.ancientpages.com/2018/05/05/hidden-text-discovered-on-dead-sea-scrolls-reveals-an-unknown-manuscript-is-still-missing/ With all this new information out there I find your results weak, only time will tell, or should I say only the next undiscovered Manuscript may tell. Edited September 4, 2019 by Manwon Lender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted September 4, 2019 #56 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Will Due said: Yes. Everything other than the good or evil that you create. So God created everything except the bits they didn’t create? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted September 4, 2019 #57 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Way I see it, God had a reason for doing what they did, creating what they did, same as how folks have a reason for watching “Mr Browns Boys”. And, like the reasons folks have for watching “Mrs Browns Boys” they are utter unfathomable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted September 4, 2019 #58 Share Posted September 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Will Due said: Since you're no fool and you know those things written in the Bible attributing evil to God are erroneous and cannot be true, in your earlier post this morning (#44) were you knowingly and deliberately ascribing the doings of God to the forces of evil? Or were you just mistaken in doing No I stand by that statement and I have excellent reasons for doing so. Consider that your God is supposed to be omniscient i.e. all-knowing, and as your god can allegedly gift individuals with the ability to see the future, then your god can also see the future. Now consider; this God of yours made Satan, knowing that Satan would rebel and drag many angels and humans to hell. Thus your God is unmistakably the author of ALL evil, if we take the Bible as being true. Your God could have built a world without evil, but elected not to, which is deeply immoral and culpably negligent. There is simply no getting away from the culpability of your god, except for the fact that he is merely a deeply unpleasant literary fictional character, and the Bible is thus an historical fictional shared world anthology with a lot of contradictions. It should also be pointed out that a deity who "creates disasters" isn't exactly a moral and good entity either. Stop worshipping an evil deity Will. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 4, 2019 #59 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Alchopwn said: No I stand by that statement and I have excellent reasons for doing so. I understand. There are reasons for being confused. 7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: So God created everything except the bits they didn’t create? Yeah think about it. How much good and evil have you created in life so far? Hopefully among those things, you've done more to take away from, rather than add to the confusion. Edited September 4, 2019 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted September 4, 2019 #60 Share Posted September 4, 2019 18 hours ago, Will Due said: Yes. Everything other than the good or evil that you create. Just the weaselly answer I expected. Let's try this, before I give up entirely. Could god have created a universe where evil (whatever your definition of 'evil' is) did not exist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 4, 2019 #61 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Could god have created a universe where evil (whatever your definition of 'evil' is) did not exist? He did. The Central Universe is perfect and evil has never existed there and never will. It's always existed from the eternal past and always will exist in the eternal future. There nothing goes wrong. Surrounding this central, stable and perfect universe, at some moment in the eternal past, the Creators put into motion what has become the evolutionary universes. Imperfect but progressing towards becoming perfected in time. This is where we live and although the Gods have never created evil, they did create a place outside of the central core of perfection where imperfect beings can exist, and unlike in the center of all things, make mistakes (evil), learn from error, and hopefully become dedicated to the doing of the Father's will as perfect as necessary to be admitted into that place where evil is known, but not experienced. Bringing something more to perfection that won't happen otherwise. Edited September 4, 2019 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted September 4, 2019 #62 Share Posted September 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Will Due said: the Creators put into motion what has become the evolutionary universes. Imperfect but progressing towards becoming perfected in time. Since this is the "sanctuary" forum, I cannot truly express what I think about this. However, if I understand your statement, you believe that "Perfect" beings deliberately created an imperfect universe in order to allow "imperfect" creatures to grow into "perfect" beings? It sounds very similar to doctrines I've heard about the Christian god. That souls exist in heaven, are sent to inhabit bodies on Earth, in order to be tempted and possibly succumb to "evil" and either being punished for their misdeeds for eternity if they falter, or be rewarded with eternal paradise if they navigate life in accordance with holy writ. Not even gonna bother asking "WHY" such a system would be put in place, because I'll get some variation of "god works in mysterious ways" BS. I just find it very sad and disheartening that a species that can put men on another world, and send probes into the far reaches of our solar system, still relies on mystical mumbo-jumbo to make themselves feel safe in the dark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted September 5, 2019 #63 Share Posted September 5, 2019 There is no central universe/center of the universe. cormac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 5, 2019 #64 Share Posted September 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: There is no central universe/center of the universe. cormac Everything has a center. So does the universe. What's the big deal anyways? The earth was flat once you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted September 5, 2019 #65 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: Everything has a center. So does the universe. What's the big deal anyways? The earth was flat once you know. The closest thing to a center would have been about the size of a planck length, 1.6 X 10 to the negative 35th meters, BEFORE spacetime existed. The creation of space time effectively ended it. cormac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 5, 2019 #66 Share Posted September 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: The creation of space time effectively ended it. But everything that's ever been created has a center. Including "space time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted September 5, 2019 #67 Share Posted September 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Will Due said: Everything has a center. So does the universe. What's the big deal anyways? The earth was flat once you know. You should sue the educational center that you attended; they robbed you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 5, 2019 #68 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said: they robbed you. Lucky me. It's why I'm self-employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted September 5, 2019 #69 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Will Due said: But everything that's ever been created has a center. Including "space time". No, it doesn’t. Quantum physics shows that the idea of a center of the universe, to any meaningful degree, in relation to the Big Bang is non-existant as the universe expanded IN ALL DIRECTIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY from a near-singularity. cormac 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted September 5, 2019 #70 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: Lucky me. It's why I'm self-employed. which has nothing to do with your education. Or did you mis-speak when you said "the earth was flat once you know. " Either way, just another sad reason why I am disgusted with some sections of this forum. I can never tell if you honestly believe the crappe you spout, or if you are just having a go at people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted September 5, 2019 #71 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: No, it doesn’t. Quantum physics shows that the idea of a center of the universe, to any meaningful degree, in relation to the Big Bang is non-existant as the universe expanded IN ALL DIRECTIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY from a near-singularity. Cormac You do realize that to the "twue believers", all the logical arguments fail, right? I do applaud your efforts, but they are wasted on the willfully deaf and blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted September 5, 2019 #72 Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said: You do realize that to the "twue believers", all the logical arguments fail, right? I do applaud your efforts, but they are wasted on the willfully deaf and blind. Who said I thought there was logic in true believers? cormac 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 5, 2019 #73 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said: Who said I thought there was logic . . . in believing that the universe doesn't have a center. Edited September 5, 2019 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted September 5, 2019 #74 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said: the universe expanded IN ALL DIRECTIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY That's right. IN ALL DIRECTIONS from a singlular central point. In physics a singularity is a point at the center of a black hole. At the center of everything, there's always something. Even if it's just a point in space. Guess what's at the center of the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted September 5, 2019 #75 Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Will Due said: That's right. IN ALL DIRECTIONS from a singlular central point. In physics a singularity is a point at the center of a black hole. At the center of everything, there's always something. Even if it's just a point in space. Guess what's at the center of the universe? That near-singularity CEASED TO EXIST upon our universes creation. Therefore, NO CENTER. cormac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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