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Piney
10 minutes ago, VastLand said:

He lead, the council of Nicea, he was orchestrating talks, that all the christianos factions could accept a common doctrine, so they would not divide his empire. He helped found it all.

But there was still a Arian, Orthodox and Nestorian Church, and they still freely preached. 

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VastLand
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Josephus regularly reports three main sects or schools of Judaism: Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes,  (War 2: 119; Antiquities 13:171; 18:11). In one passage he mentions a “fourth” philosophy that he does not label but associates with Judas the Galilean, and treats as a kind of “subset” of the Pharisees (Antiquities 18:23)...

Like the group behind the sectarian writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the earliest followers of Jesus, apparently, did not use a dominant self-identifying label but preferred a variety of descriptive terms. Paul’s letters are our earliest sources, dating to the 50s CE, and he never “names” his followers or the movement as a whole, but uses phrases like “the believers” or those “in Christ” (1 Thessalonians 1:7, 2:10; 1 Corinthians 14:22; Romans 16: 3, 7, 9; 1 Thessalonians 4:16)...

There is, however, a reference in the book of Acts to a Hebrew name for the Jesus movement that might have well been its earliest formal appellation. Paul, on trial before the Roman governer Felix, is referred to as being “the ring leader of the sect of the Nazarenes” (Acts 24:5). Whether this term was used by “outsiders” to label the group, or within the movement itself, is difficult to know. Associated with the term “Nazarenes” is a second Hebrew designation, namely Ebionites, that was also apparently used for the earliest mostly-Jewish followers of Jesus...

-https://jamestabor.com/ebionites-nazarenes-tracking-the-original-followers-of-jesus/

As you can see, the Yahudit speakers called the followers of "Jesus", Ebiuni, in Yahudit.

Romans called them "Christianos", but they did not rely on any single name, only upon the many descriptors of observers at the time period.

There are also books of some of the Original church fathers, Irenaeus, Clementine, who claim the existance of Ebionites, so if you want exactly how the greeks said it, go look at a greek manuscript, or understand the greek language.

Quote

Irenaeus stated that the Ebionites used Matthew's Gospel exclusively...

The collection of New Testament apocrypha known as the Clementine literature included three works known in antiquity as the Circuits of Peter, the Acts of the Apostles and a work usually titled the Ascents of James. They are specifically referenced by Epiphanius in his polemic against the Ebionites...

Symmachus produced a translation of the Hebrew Bible in Koine Greek, which was used by Jerome and is still extant in fragments, and his lost Hypomnemata, written to counter the canonical Gospel of Matthew...

Hippolytus of Rome (c.230) reported that a Jewish Christian, Alcibiades of Apamea, appeared in Rome teaching from a book which he claimed to be the revelation which a righteous man, Elkesai, had received from an angel, though Hippolytus suspected that Alcibiades was himself the author.[107] Shortly afterwards, Origen recorded a group, the Elkesaites, with the same beliefs.[108] Epiphanius claimed the Ebionites also used this book as a source for some of their beliefs and practices (Panarion 30.17).[25][109][110] Epiphanius explains the origin of the name Elkesai to be Aramaic El Ksai, meaning "hidden power" (Panarion 19.2.1). Scholar Petri Luomanen believes the book to have been written originally in Aramaic as a Jewish apocalypse, probably in Babylonia in 116–117.[111]...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites#Gospel_of_the_Ebionites

As you can see there is a third name thrown around, Elksai, but If I had said that, someone would have scrutinized me, instead of listening. 

I do not know about you, but I have read into all this already, read the works of the church fathers, the books of the dead sea, and many others, for my understanding of the matter, to have a historically accurate interpretation of the time period.

 

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Piney
4 hours ago, VastLand said:

As you can see, the Yahudit speakers called the followers of "Jesus", Ebiuni, in Yahudit.

Ebionites, I'm familiar with them. It was one of the dozens of sects of Christianity. The term is Latin. 

 I'm not familiar with your term "Yahudit".  I want a academic source for the spelling and pronunciation. 

I also can't understand why you would write Ebionite "Ebiuni" when I never saw it spelled that way in any scholarly text. I want a academic source for the spelling and pronunciation. 

4 hours ago, VastLand said:

As you can see, the Yahudit speakers called the followers of "Jesus", Ebiuni, in Yahudit.

I don't have to. My mother's family has their own corner of Oxford and Princeton Seminaries and all I have to do is call and ask one of the many professors I know. 

4 hours ago, VastLand said:

I do not know about you, but I have read into all this already, read the works of the church fathers, the books of the dead sea, and many others, for my understanding of the matter, to have a historically accurate interpretation of the time period.

I was a full blown Quaker seminarian who uses a Jerusalem Bible for references and read all the Gnostic and Nag Hammadi texts.

and its called "The Dead Sea Scrolls" they are pre-Christian Essene writings and not all of them are translated. I read them too.  

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VastLand
18 hours ago, Piney said:

Ebionites, I'm familiar with them. It was one of the dozens of sects of Christianity. The term is Latin. 

 I'm not familiar with your term "Yahudit".  I want a academic source for the spelling and pronunciation. 

I also can't understand why you would write Ebionite "Ebiuni" when I never saw it spelled that way in any scholarly text. I want a academic source for the spelling and pronunciation. 

 

I don't have to. My mother's family has their own corner of Oxford and Princeton Seminaries and all I have to do is call and ask one of the many professors I know. 

I was a full blown Quaker seminarian who uses a Jerusalem Bible for references and read all the Gnostic and Nag Hammadi texts.

and its called "The Dead Sea Scrolls" they are pre-Christian Essene writings and not all of them are translated. I read them too.  

Why are you so bent on scholars and Academia? They are not always correct. From an Anthropological perspective, we may study the same groups, within the Language of the Jews, which is called Yahudit, in that time, that is the first and second century, where Aramit was the language of the north, toward Syria. These are the proper names of the languages, "Hebrew", and "Aramaic". Ebiuni, is how you say Ebionite, in the proper language, without transliterations. 

And here you do not understand this, so you treat me like I am full of "Garbage"? Be respectful please, you might find someone who can show you something, if you give them a chance.

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XenoFish
35 minutes ago, VastLand said:

Be respectful please, you might find someone who can show you something, if you give them a chance.

Same thing also applies to you as well.

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Piney
33 minutes ago, VastLand said:

Why are you so bent on scholars and Academia? They are not always correct. From an Anthropological perspective, we may study the same groups, within the Language of the Jews, which is called Yahudit, in that time, that is the first and second century, where Aramit was the language of the north, toward Syria. These are the proper names of the languages, "Hebrew", and "Aramaic". Ebiuni, is how you say Ebionite, in the proper language, without transliterations. 

 Stop beating around the bush. Show me a source for these.

34 minutes ago, VastLand said:

And here you do not understand this, so you treat me like I am full of "Garbage"? Be respectful please, you might find someone who can show you something, if you give them a chance.

Stop evading. I understand fully

My White grandfather and his sister were well known theologians and translators at Oxford and Princeton. My aunt was my personal tutor. I'm looking at my grandfather's Hebrew Grammar right now. 

SHOW ME A SOURCE FOR THESE HEBREW SPELLINGS AND PRONUNCIATIONS. 

 

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VastLand
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

 Stop beating around the bush. Show me a source for these.

Stop evading. I understand fully

My White grandfather and his sister were well known theologians and translators at Oxford and Princeton. My aunt was my personal tutor. I'm looking at my grandfather's Hebrew Grammar right now. 

SHOW ME A SOURCE FOR THESE HEBREW SPELLINGS AND PRONUNCIATIONS. 

 

Learn Yahudit, that is the best your gonna get out of me. You need to think for yourself. Meaning you must think through their language. You will not find an Academic source saying, "The Jews called them Ebiuni".

Edited by VastLand

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Piney
2 minutes ago, VastLand said:

Learn Yahudit, that is the best your gonna get out of me. You need to think for yourself. Meaning you must think through their language. You will not find an Academic source saying, "The Jews called them Ebiuni".

Stop evading. 

I have my grandfather's Hebrew Grammar right in front of me. Now show me the academic source for your spellings and pronounciations. :yes:

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Piney
10 minutes ago, VastLand said:

You will not find an Academic source saying, "The Jews called them Ebiuni".

So there is no Rabbis at Princeton who work as translators? 

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Piney
23 hours ago, VastLand said:

As you can see, the Yahudit speakers called the followers of "Jesus", Ebiuni, in Yahudit.

Time for the "bomb drop"..........

So "Judith" is a language now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_(given_name)

Edited by Piney
**** Atlantis
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VastLand

Just think, if in the language of the "Yahudim" or more improperly spoken, "Jews", the letter "Yad" is a suffix for either a "people", or  a sense of "personal belonging", then, to reverse engineer this "Ebionite" word, which is English, back to the original language, we must remove "ite" which we know means a "people", and replace it with "i" (ee), or "im" (eem), one suffix meaning a "people", like a "clan", the other, a "nation", consisting of several clans. Being as they were not the majority in Yehudah, or "Judeah", they were a small sect. The description of a small sect, would best be spoken, "i" (ee). They did a good job otherwise, to transliterate the word, "Ebion", which can also be pronounced "Evyon" in Yahudyt; and in variations of "Hebrew", but especially "Aramaic", the word can be pronounced "Ebiun", as the single letter for "O" (oh), and "U" (oo), is the letter "Wau", and the single letter for "B" (bah), and "V" (bhah), is "bayet", which are both letters common among both languages, Aramayt, and Yahudyt. "Ebion" means "poor", and is likely in reference to the lifestyle of the people, who followed the words of "Yesu", in the Beatitudes of the Book of Matthew. "Ebion" is the letters "Aleph+Bayet+Yad+Wau+Nun", from the root "Ebah", meaning "Desire, or longing", as this is what the poor typically do, for having sustenance, shelter, and clothes. "Ebah" is from the root "Av", meaning "Father"; in this derivation of the word, we see the Yahudyt letters, "Aleph+Bayet+Hey", and this is either the depiction of a person "beholding" the pole, which holds up a tent, as a person who "desires" shelter, or a person "bringing attention" to his father, as if he "Desire" something from him.

To understand the relation of "I" (ee), and "Im" (eem), we must understand the root, "I", which is the pictograph of an "Arm and Hand", in Paleo-Hebrew, and what does an arm do? It can "Extend" outward, and when you look upon it, the arm starts as a single limb, and splits into five fingers. This is like a father, who births five sons. And so, this is the small scale suffix for "people", and Yam, although it comes from the same Letter, "Yad", is determined under a different premise, as the "water that extends", such as a "river", or "sea", and what is a "sea"? Endless. Abundant. A Nation.

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Piney
22 minutes ago, VastLand said:

Just think, if in the language of the "Yahudim" or more improperly spoken, "Jews",

Yahudi is the Arab name for the Hebrews. 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Yahudi

The Hebrews actually call themselves Yisra-El

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ישראל#Hebrew

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VastLand
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

Yahudi is the Arab name for the Hebrews. 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Yahudi

The Hebrews actually call themselves Yisra-El

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ישראל#Hebrew

After the split of the North and South tribes, that is Yahudah, Sema'un, and Benyamyn (also Levi), vs. Dan, Naphtali, Ishsakhar, Ephraim, Manasheh, Gad, Zebulun, Asher, Re'uben, the "Jews" called themselves "Yahudah", to distinguish themselves; this all took place around 930 BCE. Next, the Neo-Assyrian Empire, expanded into the land, and captivated the Northern tribes, taking 10 tribes with them, which includes Benyamyn, and this is the first Exile; this took place around 740 BCE. After that, Israel, was always called "Yahudah", and the "Jews" of the second century did not call themselves "Yisrael". The Arabic people, of Syria, and various regions, are remnants of the Lost tribes or are typically, genially, mixed race of "Yahudah", and "Ishmael", who some of which speaking "Aramaic", or "Aramyt", a derivation of the original "Hebrew"; or they spoke Arabic, yet another derivation of the original language, termed "West Semitic", and yet called "Hebrew", who accurately called the "Jews" "Yahudi", meaning "Clan of Yahud", the father of their tribe. But your claim that Arabs called Hebrews Yahudi, is a bit of a loaded phrase, as "Hebrew" is a name coined from the forefather of Abraham, named "Eber", and this is a man, not a language. Also, Yahudi, is what all Arabic people know this to be a transliteration, of what is the title that the "Yahudim" call themeselves. The descendants of "Eber", do speak variations of a "West Semitic", but they are not all "Yahudim", they are not all "Israel", and they are not all "Arab".

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XenoFish

 None of this has to do with the topic of this thread. 

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Piney
25 minutes ago, VastLand said:

"Aramyt"

Amaraya

and the original people who spoke it weren't Hebrews nor was it a derivative. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic

29 minutes ago, VastLand said:

"Yahudah"

Shevet Yahudah is one of the 12 tribes. Not all the Hebrews. I have several Jewish friends. One just told me they don't use this term. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Judah

I found the source of your spelling. They are not a bunch to be around. 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites

 

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Manwon Lender
On 8/30/2019 at 9:15 PM, Pettytalk said:

That's a lot of books on the occult. Is the occult real enough, or curious enough to have interest that many people, so as to have warranted so many books written on the subject?

The Bible in many ways is an occult book, the book is full of supernatural events. These occult books are no different and at the time some of these books were written there were probably more people involved in the occult than the Bible. 

There should be no surprise in that.

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Manwon Lender
On 8/31/2019 at 10:44 PM, Pettytalk said:

What is considered conical for the Bible is sufficient for me. It's nice to have a look at the others out of curiosity, but I don't need them anymore, since I believe i have already understood the Kernel of it, in a "nutshell", regardless of versions. Absolute Justice for the Souls, was what I found at the "nut house" one very long day and night in my life.

And I have, from time to time read other Christian material, including the Gnostic gospels.

And I was already aware that there are lots and lots books on Christianity, past and present. Too many for anyone to read them all.

But thanks for the suggestions.

Enlightenment is the true path you seek, using sincerity, humility, and understanding when dealing with your fellow man will manifest your light from within. Every man from the lowest of places to the highest of places are equal understanding this must start with self reflection. Then treating them in this manner without condescending thoughts nor actions will help to find the light within, then you can begin your journey. 

Never forget that every journey begins with a single step. There is no beginning or end to the manifest path of Enlightenment, start you search for the path with eyes fully closed until you see the light. Then chose a path, of which there are three, the high path the Middle path and the low path. If you have completed the tasks above the correct path will be eliminated. 

Edited by Manwon Lender

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VastLand
18 hours ago, Piney said:

Amaraya

and the original people who spoke it weren't Hebrews nor was it a derivative. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic

Shevet Yahudah is one of the 12 tribes. Not all the Hebrews. I have several Jewish friends. One just told me they don't use this term. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Judah

I found the source of your spelling. They are not a bunch to be around. 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites

 

No, I have no affiliation with "Black Hebrew Israelites", I got my use of spelling from the knowledge of how a language works. I study "Paleo-Hebrew", and by extension, every variant child language. I do not study "Black Hebrew Israelite: Lashawan Qadash", my teacher is Jeff A. Benner, primarily, and he does not agree with them. Proof: https://youtu.be/Tijr-vCQmE4

The problem is that people always compartmentalize, and this separation, keeps people in a limited box, where they can not do things for themselves, they have to pass it on to someone who can. Some brilliant soles decide to learn more than one skill/trade, and can be their own Researcher, manufacturer, producer and supplier. It is smart, simple, independent and Sustainable.

Amaraya? what? No the suffix "-yt" is the two letters, "Yad+Tau", and is a phictographic representation of a "hand, writing" a "language"; "-yt" is the suffix for language. "Aramyt" is very similar to "Yahudyt", in most every way, other than having some different words than the other, they are like two different dialects, and consist of the same Aleph-bet. Then the original speakers were the Northern tribes of "Yisrael", reaching into Syria, where the language began to separate, with the nations, in 930 BCE onward. "Amar", and "Aram" are not the same words, so who are you talking about? Arabic, Yahudyt, and Aramyt are all branches of "West Semitic".

Your statement on "Yahudah [being] one of twelve tribes", is of course true, and no, Hebrew is not a language, it is an ancestor. There might even be desendants of Eber in Russia, for that matter, but Yisrael, were not called "Hebrew" until more recently. I try to stay away from this terminology when I can.

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Piney
33 minutes ago, VastLand said:

my teacher is Jeff A. Benner,

This conversation is now over.......considered yourself ignored from now on....:hmm:

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VastLand

It is not my doing when folks reject established facts.

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Festina
On 9/7/2019 at 1:25 PM, Piney said:

This conversation is now over.......considered yourself ignored from now on....:hmm:

Settle down mon ami, but do keep this in mind — If or when The Truth becomes Known there will be a whole lotta unemployment in the clergy, the professorates of theology and most other so callled religious scholars and religious book publishing  as these seemingly never ending arguments of ‘who was that person and what religion did he spring from’ and are good for the economy and feeding the egos of those who feel the need to be ‘noticed’.    

But in reality does any of The Who and What of it really matter? 

Patanjali’s teachings may have been sufficient — but it is probable that if the world had embraced his philosophy there would be no judiciary system either.  Can you  Imagine — No Lawyers, Judges, Prisons,  Parole offices, prison guards,  prisons for profit et al.?   No military either as war would be unacceptable method for solving conflicts. 

 

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third_eye

Well... That was fun... Who wants a cuppa tea? 

~

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Cookie Monster
Posted (edited)

Something I always found interesting is looking at old scientific papers in university libraries.

They are full of strange ideas which have been forgotten about. Its a good source to generate new ideas and of course, what was once occult that turned out to be correct is in them too. Its better than having to manually route through the mumbo jumbo to find correct ideas.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Piney
3 hours ago, Festina said:

Settle down mon ami, but do keep this in mind — If or when The Truth becomes Known there will be a whole lotta unemployment in the clergy, the professorates of theology and most other so callled religious scholars and religious book publishing  as these seemingly never ending arguments of ‘who was that person and what religion did he spring from’ and are good for the economy and feeding the egos of those who feel the need to be ‘noticed’.    

They are a young uneducated Native whose tribe are Mission Diggers which suffered total cultural destruction, so because of that I feel bad. On the obverse, He posts racist dreck like the Indo-Europeans and Native Americans are and speak a variation of Hebrew using racist British Israelite and Mormon links and won't listen to reason. They also won't listen to reason that the Native American Universal Consciousness is not the Christians God. We are pantheistic, not monotheistic.

I don't have them on ignore anymore because I want to nip the utter dreck they preach in the bud. 

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