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Still Waters

Minnesota UFO incident remembered 40 yrs on

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preacherman76
On 8/30/2019 at 9:38 AM, Dejarma said:

yep, the usual boring stuff:yes:

And yet here you still are, spending countless hours on this boring stuff. 

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ChrLzs

About 50 years ago, I half-believed in some of these reports, but then as I investigated them over the years, it became very clear that they were mostly just stories and assorted bulldung, and those that were actually evidenced, were at best 'odd'.  Not other worldly.

And I grew up and got smarter and learnt an awful lot about photography and illusions and aerial phenomena, but perhaps most importantly, how little you can trust anecdotal waffling and even your very own memories, especially if there is any hint of money or fame to be had.

As far as any postings here being 'angry', you must have lived a very, very sheltered life.  Just report the dam posts if they offend you and stop whining on thread.  Frankly, I'm sick of these cheap claims that people are angry or bullying others, when no such thing is happening - we just want some decent evidence / provenance.

 

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Hazzard
3 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

About 50 years ago, I half-believed in some of these reports, but then as I investigated them over the years, it became very clear that they were mostly just stories and assorted bulldung, and those that were actually evidenced, were at best 'odd'.  Not other worldly.

And I grew up and got smarter and learnt an awful lot about photography and illusions and aerial phenomena, but perhaps most importantly, how little you can trust anecdotal waffling and even your very own memories, especially if there is any hint of money or fame to be had.

As far as any postings here being 'angry', you must have lived a very, very sheltered life.  Just report the dam posts if they offend you and stop whining on thread.  Frankly, I'm sick of these cheap claims that people are angry or bullying others, when no such thing is happening - we just want some decent evidence / provenance.

 

I could not agree more. And I would just like to add one thing.... ^_^

 

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever.

It is now, more than ever, essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element.- James Robbins.


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stereologist
8 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Man people get really angry when faced with what really seems to be a credible sighting. 

Guess it always comes back to the same thing, it’s just a threat to some peoples world view. Can’t have that, no sir. 

Can you name anyone that is angry? I consider such a claim to be laughable in most cases.

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preacherman76
9 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

About 50 years ago, I half-believed in some of these reports, but then as I investigated them over the years, it became very clear that they were mostly just stories and assorted bulldung, and those that were actually evidenced, were at best 'odd'.  Not other worldly.

And I grew up and got smarter and learnt an awful lot about photography and illusions and aerial phenomena, but perhaps most importantly, how little you can trust anecdotal waffling and even your very own memories, especially if there is any hint of money or fame to be had.

As far as any postings here being 'angry', you must have lived a very, very sheltered life.  Just report the dam posts if they offend you and stop whining on thread.  Frankly, I'm sick of these cheap claims that people are angry or bullying others, when no such thing is happening - we just want some decent evidence / provenance.

 

I’m not offended. It was just an observation. 

Honest question, why does it have to be about things being other worldly? I’m a total believer in UFO’s, not by choice, that was taken from me. No need to jump to any conclusions about the origin of such craft though. 

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Hazzard
11 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Man people get really angry when faced with what really seems to be a credible sighting. 

Guess it always comes back to the same thing, it’s just a threat to some peoples world view. Can’t have that, no sir. 

 

Angry, really?!! :lol: The only thing we find a bit frustrating is when we ask for real evidence and the true believers start dodging, sidestepping, dancing, deliberate misenterpretation, reading between the lines, cherry picking and handwaiving, sometimes even straight out lying... 

 If aliens have been visiting the Earth for the last 50 years, or a thousand years, I dot think it would be so hard to convince people that was true. Its convinced 50% of the American public, sure, but its convinced very few academics.  As an astronomer said "if I thought there was a one percent chance any of that was true, Id spend 100 percent of my time on it."

In other words, if the evidence were the least bit compelling, you would have lots of academics working on it because its extremely interesting, could there be a more exciting discovery!?

To me that says that the evidence is weak... from the scientists perspective.

 

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preacherman76

Yes of course, what was I thinking? Every would know. Well that settles it Hazzard, thanks for showing me the light. 

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the13bats
16 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

And yet here you still are, spending countless hours on this boring stuff. 

and you are here pointing it out

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the13bats

labels tossed about being Angry, threatened, and spewing judgements why a person should or shouldnt be posting here

I have see it here over in crypto and in ghosts and it has a very common denominator it always comes from a blind faith true believer in a trollio kind of way directed at someone who obviously feel they have painted into a corner they cant escape from the lash out  in  fact has an odd deeper irony to it,

it would seem the BFTBs world of delusion has been shaken, they have been presented with a preponderance of weight that their BFTB is prosaic not otherworldly, not paranormal and in turn they arent special, they feel called out, let down , insulted, very emotional not unlike when a child is told there is no santa.

So i want to appeal to those who get told by a bftb that they are angry, threatened or judged for beong on a paranormal forum understand this is akin to the bftb saying "uncle" or even a last grasp at saying face and still asking for mercy,

put yourself in their shoes it can be jarring and ego deflating to be shown your beliefs are just fantasy, delusions, or gullibility.

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Dejarma
17 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

And yet here you still are, spending countless hours on this boring stuff. 

yep, countless hours.. Why are they countless/ pointless?

Because I've been waiting all this time for someone like your good self (or anyone for that matter) to say something/ show me something via a link, whatever that will make it all worth it!

Pointless me hanging around: 'how to create the perfect Indian curry" type forums to gather thought changing new data on the existence of alien life on this planet!

Now go away; unless you have some new data for me to look at:sleepy:

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the13bats
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

I have see it here over in crypto and in ghosts and it has a very common denominator it always comes from a blind faith true believer in a trollio kind of way directed at someone who obviously feel they have painted into a corner they cant escape from the lash out  in  fact has an odd deeper irony to it,

^^^

im known for typos, vision issues small phone screen auto corrrct are good excuses but the above should have read,

"I have see it here over in crypto and in ghosts and it has a very common denominator it always comes from a blind faith true believer in a trollio kind of way directed at someone who obviously made them feel they have been painted into a corner they cant escape from so they lash out  in  fact it has an odd deeper irony to it,"

just wanted to clearify for those who cant decipher bat babble,

we now return to our regularly scheduled program...

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Dejarma
17 minutes ago, the13bats said:

^^^

im known for typos, vision issues small phone screen auto corrrct are good excuses but the above should have read,

"I have see it here over in crypto and in ghosts and it has a very common denominator it always comes from a blind faith true believer in a trollio kind of way directed at someone who obviously made them feel they have been painted into a corner they cant escape from so they lash out  in  fact it has an odd deeper irony to it,"

just wanted to clearify for those who cant decipher bat babble,

we now return to our regularly scheduled program...

i thought you had been drinking the cheap floor cleaner;)

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the13bats
Just now, Dejarma said:

i thought you had been drinking the cheap floor cleaner;)

naw, the heat, over 100 index and my horrible jet lag drdp nervious bs is really on me hard this time of the year,  its 10pm and almost 90 out, blah blah blah, think ill go ride the trike.

 

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preacherman76
8 hours ago, Dejarma said:

yep, countless hours.. Why are they countless/ pointless?

Because I've been waiting all this time for someone like your good self (or anyone for that matter) to say something/ show me something via a link, whatever that will make it all worth it!

Pointless me hanging around: 'how to create the perfect Indian curry" type forums to gather thought changing new data on the existence of alien life on this planet!

Now go away; unless you have some new data for me to look at:sleepy:

Why would you wait for that? What could I or anyone for that matter possibly say or do to convince you short of riding a craft to your front yard and introducing you to worldly visitors? At best I can post links to personal stories, or a video. We all know how you feel about that. 

What you pretend you are looking for, isn’t ever gonna happen. It isn’t even possible in a place like this. 

Edited by preacherman76

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preacherman76
9 hours ago, the13bats said:

and you are here pointing it out

Why wouldn’t I be? I’m actually interested in these stories. 

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the13bats
6 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Why wouldn’t I be? I’m actually interested in these stories. 

your interest in this subject matter doesnt give you warrent to scold and ridicule those here who do not blindly believe as you do and have their own opinions,

if those types go away as you appeared to desire by your remarks then the forum becomes a boring cheesy modern version of the giant rock conventions of the 50s and 60s. with a gaggle of blind faith true believers high fiving each others tall tales and unsubstantiated stories.

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ChrLzs
On 9/7/2019 at 2:48 AM, preacherman76 said:

I’m not offended. It was just an observation. 

OK, but it's a frequently used tactic, on fringe subjects, and it should be dealt with behind the scenes - that is the rule on most forums, and it helps prevent what are essentially ad hominem attacks.

Quote

Honest question, why does it have to be about things being other worldly? I’m a total believer in UFO’s, not by choice, that was taken from me. No need to jump to any conclusions about the origin of such craft though. 

I tried to hint at the fact that I was referring to not just alien other-worldly, but also interdimensional or paranormal world-ly.  I see no properly evidenced cases that require anything other than mundane explanation.  Frankly, there aren't all that many that are evidenced, let alone well evidenced, and of those, 90% are pretty easy to explain, and the others just don't have *enough* evidence to make a guess out of numerous possibilities.

I know you think your event was worthy, and to you it probably is, but we do not share the same amount of trust in 'memories'.  Brains are crap at remembering reality.

 

And I've explained all that plenty of times before.  Some don't listen.  Some still argue.

But until there's a REAL, proven beyond doubt, incident, it doesn't matter a whit.  And as I've again said many times, if it was happening, shouldn't that evidence exist by now.  We've had a good twenty years or so of sky surveillance and wide distribution of cameras that means we look thousands of times more closely at what's going on in the skies.  I think it's time we grew up.  Aliens, yes they're almost certainly out there.  But they are so sparse and so far away, the chances of a visit are b***** all.

So that leaves *other* worldly, and I'll keep similarly patiently waiting for decent evidence that points at that...

Edited by ChrLzs
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preacherman76
17 hours ago, the13bats said:

your interest in this subject matter doesnt give you warrent to scold and ridicule those here who do not blindly believe as you do and have their own opinions,

if those types go away as you appeared to desire by your remarks then the forum becomes a boring cheesy modern version of the giant rock conventions of the 50s and 60s. with a gaggle of blind faith true believers high fiving each others tall tales and unsubstantiated stories.

Seriously? This is coming from a guy who if the laugh emoji were a person it would be filing a restraining order on you by now. Yet you are going to lecture me about ridiculing people?  You bring nothing to the table but ridicule. If the types I'm speaking of went away, we would have respectful conversations, regardless of belief.

Take Chrlzs for example. I have a lot of respect for him as a poster. Sure he can let his emotions get the best of him at times, but for the most part he is about the subject. Breaks down bit by bit any detail of the story he has an opinion about. Often goes into great detail, and I'm not ashamed to say I even sometimes learn something from him. Now obviously I disagree with him often, but I don't want him to go away at all. He brings value to the conversation. Most of the rest of you bring nothing but mockery and ridicule, and it's turned this place into a cesspool. Its why nowhere near the amount of people come to this section that did in the past.

Look at this very thread. We had a guy stop in who appears to have direct knowledge of the situation. Wrote stories on this exact sighting. Had direct conversations with the people involved.  What was your response to him? You laughed in his face like a elementary school kid. So stop playing the victim here, cause you most certainly are not.  

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Dejarma
2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Its why nowhere near the amount of people come to this section that did in the past.

the reason for this is people are starting to realise this subject is based on BS stories & exaggerated data in order to earn money from the easily led via books, TV docs, lectures etc!

this is the only reason this subject still exists IMO.

people like your good self will probably still be contemplating the meaning of crop circles in 200 years time because the good old saying: 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' will be stuck in the brain...

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, Dejarma said:

the reason for this is people are starting to realise this subject is based on BS stories & exaggerated data in order to earn money from the easily led via books, TV docs, lectures etc!

this is the only reason this subject still exists IMO.

people like your good self will probably still be contemplating the meaning of crop circles in 200 years time because the good old saying: 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' will be stuck in the brain...

Maybe, but I highly doubt that. Last numbers I've seen there are millions who believe in the existence of UFO's. There are millions who have claimed to see at least one. as long as people like myself exist, again in the millions, there will be people who talk about it, and who seek to talk about it. Unless of course....

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the13bats
3 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Seriously? This is coming from a guy who if the laugh emoji were a person it would be filing a restraining order on you by now. Yet you are going to lecture me about ridiculing people?  You bring nothing to the table but ridicule. If the types I'm speaking of went away, we would have respectful conversations, regardless of belief.

Take Chrlzs for example. I have a lot of respect for him as a poster. Sure he can let his emotions get the best of him at times, but for the most part he is about the subject. Breaks down bit by bit any detail of the story he has an opinion about. Often goes into great detail, and I'm not ashamed to say I even sometimes learn something from him. Now obviously I disagree with him often, but I don't want him to go away at all. He brings value to the conversation. Most of the rest of you bring nothing but mockery and ridicule, and it's turned this place into a cesspool. Its why nowhere near the amount of people come to this section that did in the past.

Look at this very thread. We had a guy stop in who appears to have direct knowledge of the situation. Wrote stories on this exact sighting. Had direct conversations with the people involved.  What was your response to him? You laughed in his face like a elementary school kid. So stop playing the victim here, cause you most certainly are not.  

you either didnt read my post or didnt grasp it or just want to distrort the meaning to suit your beliefs not unlike what is done with many prosaic cases here by believers,  me playing vicitim ?  how silly that was to suggest when i was basically addressing your whining about your not liking how some post on here because its simply a different opinion to yours, im one who believes in UFOs but im not one to blindly jump that UFO= alien or anything otherworldly paranormal as there is zero proof of that.

this is an open public forum and there will be things we do not agree with, its not personal, well it shouldnt be and isnt to me, its interesting and entertainment.

you are correct some posters here are better than others and thats on both sides, two posters can say the same thing differely and one goes down smoother for you, thats super i dont care about your approval.

I listen to every story they are all interestings and most times i respect that the person is sincere and believes it, in other words i do not jump that every outlandish tale is made up bs, or mental delusion even though a percent are, some are also hoaxes or misidentification, etc.

there are several people here who have had experences that they believe happened, i believe that they believe it happened that doesnt mean that with lack of evidence i believe it happened and they are good with that,  mutual understanding and respect.

however,  in other cases i have been attacked for mearly asking for evidence, and asking what research a person did on their own alleged experence, they want to be taken at face value blind belief from me with zero evidence or proof from them,  they wont get that from me stories are not proof, so if paranormal, otherworldly etc are the only explanation a person wants to hear, no  they likely wont like me, so be it.

depending on how im treated is going to reflect how i treat, if i find something hilarious, ridiculous it might get a laugh face, they are there to use.

im not trying to upset blind true believers and i do accept that just the fact im not one upsets some of them, so no need to scold, no need to state who is or isnt worthly to post here in your opinion, if you do not like my posts and they do seem to upset you then easy fix, place me on ignore.

 

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Dejarma
40 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

There are millions who have claimed to see at least one.

yep including me! I've seen what I'd call 'strange things' in the sky that I could not explain.... But I do not put it down to aliens, black-ops or the supernatural (in all it's different shapes & forms) because it's highly unlikely to be any of these> IN_MY_OPINION.

If folk want to believe it is (or more than likely to be) without evidence then great, & why not.

But what can get a little tedious is when people like your good self start suggesting people like me (skeptical) need to open my mind/ think outside of the box etc- suggesting that I'm not open to the possibility, or frightened of the truth & all the other ridiculous assumptions on the same lines!

I'd say it's highly unlikely bordering on impossible WE are the only intelligent life-forms in this vast universe of ours & more than <open to the possibilty> of any of these entities visiting this planet in the past or are indeed here now.

But I can't BELIEVE without evidence where someone like you can BELIEVE without it. Wouldn't you like to see real_solid_evidence that at least takes this subject out of the 'strange phenomenon' category for everyone? That would be conformation & good for even someone who believes- wouldn't it?

You do your fair share of <having a go> at others in here because they do not see it the way you do!! So it works both ways...

 

Anyways, have fun;)

Peace.

dej...
 

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Dejarma
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

you either didnt read my post or didnt grasp it or just want to distrort the meaning to suit your beliefs not unlike what is done with many prosaic cases here by believers,  me playing vicitim ?  how silly that was to suggest when i was basically addressing your whining about your not liking how some post on here because its simply a different opinion to yours, im one who believes in UFOs but im not one to blindly jump that UFO= alien or anything otherworldly paranormal as there is zero proof of that.

this is an open public forum and there will be things we do not agree with, its not personal, well it shouldnt be and isnt to me, its interesting and entertainment.

you are correct some posters here are better than others and thats on both sides, two posters can say the same thing differely and one goes down smoother for you, thats super i dont care about your approval.

I listen to every story they are all interestings and most times i respect that the person is sincere and believes it, in other words i do not jump that every outlandish tale is made up bs, or mental delusion even though a percent are, some are also hoaxes or misidentification, etc.

there are several people here who have had experences that they believe happened, i believe that they believe it happened that doesnt mean that with lack of evidence i believe it happened and they are good with that,  mutual understanding and respect.

however,  in other cases i have been attacked for mearly asking for evidence, and asking what research a person did on their own alleged experence, they want to be taken at face value blind belief from me with zero evidence or proof from them,  they wont get that from me stories are not proof, so if paranormal, otherworldly etc are the only explanation a person wants to hear, no  they likely wont like me, so be it.

depending on how im treated is going to reflect how i treat, if i find something hilarious, ridiculous it might get a laugh face, they are there to use.

im not trying to upset blind true believers and i do accept that just the fact im not one upsets some of them, so no need to scold, no need to state who is or isnt worthly to post here in your opinion, if you do not like my posts and they do seem to upset you then easy fix, place me on ignore.

 

exactly!!! good words;)

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stereologist
4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Seriously? This is coming from a guy who if the laugh emoji were a person it would be filing a restraining order on you by now. Yet you are going to lecture me about ridiculing people?  You bring nothing to the table but ridicule. If the types I'm speaking of went away, we would have respectful conversations, regardless of belief.

Take Chrlzs for example. I have a lot of respect for him as a poster. Sure he can let his emotions get the best of him at times, but for the most part he is about the subject. Breaks down bit by bit any detail of the story he has an opinion about. Often goes into great detail, and I'm not ashamed to say I even sometimes learn something from him. Now obviously I disagree with him often, but I don't want him to go away at all. He brings value to the conversation. Most of the rest of you bring nothing but mockery and ridicule, and it's turned this place into a cesspool. Its why nowhere near the amount of people come to this section that did in the past.

Look at this very thread. We had a guy stop in who appears to have direct knowledge of the situation. Wrote stories on this exact sighting. Had direct conversations with the people involved.  What was your response to him? You laughed in his face like a elementary school kid. So stop playing the victim here, cause you most certainly are not.  

The direct knowledge was someone went to the primary source - the people involved. He does try to show that the incident happened twice. I did not find it compelling, but interesting. The "missing time" is told as fact, but is it?  Here is what was stated " The clock on the squad car lost 14 minutes of time. " What does that mean? Does it just mean that someone lost electrical power in the car and the clock reset? When someone reset the car clock they set it to their watch which was incorrect? Is that what happened? We simply do not know. There are lots of explanations why the clocks are off. Allowing people to think this is mysterious and involves something unusual is unwarranted.

Here is something the surprises me: " I know the doctor who checked his eyes. They had no explanation for what caused it. "

What doctor is going to violate patient confidentiality? That's a HIPAA violation.

As far as causes go there is a simple cause for most occurrences - the Sun. Onset of symptoms is delayed hours after the exposure. It makes sense that the symptoms appeared at night. Protecting the eyes from further exposure and possibly using an antibiotic or a drug to relax the muscles of the eye is normal. Symptoms often go away in a day or 2.

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preacherman76
4 hours ago, stereologist said:

The direct knowledge was someone went to the primary source - the people involved. He does try to show that the incident happened twice. I did not find it compelling, but interesting. The "missing time" is told as fact, but is it?  Here is what was stated " The clock on the squad car lost 14 minutes of time. " What does that mean? Does it just mean that someone lost electrical power in the car and the clock reset? When someone reset the car clock they set it to their watch which was incorrect? Is that what happened? We simply do not know. There are lots of explanations why the clocks are off. Allowing people to think this is mysterious and involves something unusual is unwarranted.

Here is something the surprises me: " I know the doctor who checked his eyes. They had no explanation for what caused it. "

What doctor is going to violate patient confidentiality? That's a HIPAA violation.

As far as causes go there is a simple cause for most occurrences - the Sun. Onset of symptoms is delayed hours after the exposure. It makes sense that the symptoms appeared at night. Protecting the eyes from further exposure and possibly using an antibiotic or a drug to relax the muscles of the eye is normal. Symptoms often go away in a day or 2.

That’s the spirit. I can only speculate to the possible answers to your questions. Perhaps Iron Ghost would be good enough to answer them. 

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