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Still Waters

Minnesota UFO incident remembered 40 yrs on

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ChrLzs
6 hours ago, stereologist said:

Here is something the surprises me: " I know the doctor who checked his eyes. They had no explanation for what caused it. "

What doctor is going to violate patient confidentiality? That's a HIPAA violation.

This is a great example of what I referred to above - that is NOT what real doctors do, unless it was part of a pathology report in a police case or similar, in which case it would be available in writing..  At best, I'd wager that IG is relating someone else's claims (perhaps the believably named 'Meridian French'? :) ) and adopting them as his own.  I'll also wager that IG will NOT attempt to provide provenance for this claim.  So I dismiss it as false, like almost all of his description of the events.  I think it's a typical MUFON fairy story, probably embellished in the hope that the media would pick it up (as they often do..). 

 

 

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stereologist
3 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

That’s the spirit. I can only speculate to the possible answers to your questions. Perhaps Iron Ghost would be good enough to answer them. 

Don't you want to consider some of the questions? That's what a discussion is all about.

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

Don't you want to consider some of the questions? That's what a discussion is all about.

I have considered them, but like I said, I can only speculate. Really I’d just be playing devils advocate. For example, if the patient gave permission for the doctor to speak openly on the matter, or even outright asked him to, well then he wouldn’t have been in violation of any privacy laws. 

I don’t really know enough about it that I feel any loyalty towards the story.  I don’t  feel a need to defend it. I would like to see the answers to these questions myself. 

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stereologist
2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I have considered them, but like I said, I can only speculate. Really I’d just be playing devils advocate. For example, if the patient gave permission for the doctor to speak openly on the matter, or even outright asked him to, well then he wouldn’t have been in violation of any privacy laws. 

I don’t really know enough about it that I feel any loyalty towards the story.  I don’t  feel a need to defend it. I would like to see the answers to these questions myself. 

The safe thing for someone to release private information is to get a written release form the patient.Keeps those nasty legal issues at bay. But the better thing is avoid talking about it and allow the patient to do it. That prevents any misunderstandings.

It seems rather plausible to  me that the person involved concocted a story to cover up some error on their part. If the cover story had been something more mundane like naked hooker along roadway then the story would be in something akin to the Florida man tales. But the nature of the story lands it here.

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the13bats
10 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

That’s the spirit. I can only speculate to the possible answers to your questions. Perhaps Iron Ghost would be good enough to answer them. 

i would rather hear from unbiaed more informed sources...

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preacherman76
6 hours ago, stereologist said:

The safe thing for someone to release private information is to get a written release form the patient.Keeps those nasty legal issues at bay. But the better thing is avoid talking about it and allow the patient to do it. That prevents any misunderstandings.

It seems rather plausible to  me that the person involved concocted a story to cover up some error on their part. If the cover story had been something more mundane like naked hooker along roadway then the story would be in something akin to the Florida man tales. But the nature of the story lands it here.

Again devils advocate here, but I find this unlikely. Of all the stories he could have made up over his damaged car, the one he told would have been more likely to ruin him then to just fess up to having an accident. 

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preacherman76
3 hours ago, the13bats said:

i would rather hear from unbiaed more informed sources...

What makes you assume bias? Isn’t it just as possible that the information trail led to his conclusions? 

If I recall correctly he said he had interviewed 100 or so people who told stories of these orbs. 

In isolation any single one of those stories don’t mean much. But together, when looked at as a whole, and searched for patterns, you now have an interesting situation. 

 

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Hazzard
12 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

 

But together, when looked at as a whole, and searched for patterns, you now have an interesting situation. 

Interesting how? Ball lightning? Atmospheric plasma? There is plenty of good evidence for those.

I just dont see a connection to ET here!

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preacherman76
2 hours ago, Hazzard said:

Interesting how? Ball lightning? Atmospheric plasma? There is plenty of good evidence for those.

I just dont see a connection to ET here!

I meant the UFO topic as a whole, not just the orbs. I can see how you thought that though. I should have been more clear.

Again I never said anything about ET's.

Edited by preacherman76
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stereologist
2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Again devils advocate here, but I find this unlikely. Of all the stories he could have made up over his damaged car, the one he told would have been more likely to ruin him then to just fess up to having an accident. 

So he should have stated something like he was careless and hit a tree or a tree branch damaging his patrol vehicle on an empty road in the middle of nowhere?

Or maybe he did something really dumb like he sopped some woman to say hi to her and she got upset and threw things at him damaging his windshield.

Lots of things that could have landed him in hot water.

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preacherman76
7 minutes ago, stereologist said:

So he should have stated something like he was careless and hit a tree or a tree branch damaging his patrol vehicle on an empty road in the middle of nowhere?

Or maybe he did something really dumb like he sopped some woman to say hi to her and she got upset and threw things at him damaging his windshield.

Lots of things that could have landed him in hot water.

Yeah but what he actually said could have landed him in a mental hospital 

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stereologist
19 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Yeah but what he actually said could have landed him in a mental hospital 

I doubt that.

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Hazzard
51 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Yeah but what he actually said could have landed him in a mental hospital 

Have you ever been to a UFO convention? There are some seriously wacky claims and people running free at those meetings.

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preacherman76
4 hours ago, Hazzard said:

Have you ever been to a UFO convention? There are some seriously wacky claims and people running free at those meetings.

No I haven’t. But I’d bet you are right about that. 

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the13bats
7 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

What makes you assume bias? Isn’t it just as possible that the information trail led to his conclusions? 

If I recall correctly he said he had interviewed 100 or so people who told stories of these orbs. 

In isolation any single one of those stories don’t mean much. But together, when looked at as a whole, and searched for patterns, you now have an interesting situation. 

 

Let me answer that in a mix of specific to this case and blanket about "UFOs" in general.

for example i gave a tech rundown of vehicle antenna types, i cant find the post now, odd, but i at the risk of sounding pompous i could be called an expert on many vehicle topics and my tech was ignored or belittled so the person could chase biased unrealistic paranormal explanations.

lots of people see desert "ghost lights" and science has explained them prosaic yet so.e refuse to accept science and grasp at straws its otherwordly.

A conclusion based in the desire for some preconceived paranormal explaination no matter how much research is still very closed minded and biased, look at how many post on this forum of some experence and paranormal otherworldly is the only explanation they will entertain, even when better prosaic possibilities are presented, many will get angry, that is very biased, we can jump to a conclusion from unknown, i saw something odd so it must be blah blah  it doesnt work that way.

someone posts a laser pointer pic calls it a haunt, i post laser pointer pix that look the same yet a bftb will say the other guys are 83% likely paranormal  that is a bias to the point of ridiculous.

6 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I meant the UFO topic as a whole, not just the orbs. I can see how you thought that though. I should have been more clear.

Again I never said anything about ET's.

If a person doesnt jump that UFO means alien/et or otherworldly paranormal isnt the only possibility and will listen to prosiac possibilities i can respect them, but its not the case most people who say they saw a UFO adanantly denounce any prosaic explanations and insist UFO = alien.

.

5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Yeah but what he actually said could have landed him in a mental hospital 

Perhaps but can you post the name of one person  who claims of a paranormal outlandish event in and of itself landed them in the looney bin? i doubt it, and val johnson actually went up in rank so to speak until he tried to pull some game or scam with funding and was fired that of course hurt his intregrity and credibility and ruined his law career not his wild story of flying light balls.

4 hours ago, Hazzard said:

Have you ever been to a UFO convention? There are some seriously wacky claims and people running free at those meetings.

and my mind goes back to giant rock tassel conventions where a good 90% of attendees made outlandish claims of close encounters of all kinds, zero proof of course and most can and are well debunked today, the people at todays conventions still make outlandish claims with zero proof, and most is still debunked.

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IronGhost

 

 

To add some context to the Val Johnson story -- here is another incident I reported on years ago: 

This "flying glowing orb" story that occurred in the same Minnesota county as the Val Johnson event – which is Marshall County. I live in the next county over (Roseau County), but I’m just a mile from the northwestern county of our state, Kittson County. Both Roseau and Kittson border Canada.

As I said before, I live just about 30 miles from where the Val Johnson incident took place.

So I thought I would share yet another “strange glowing orb” story which are so numerous in this location.

First a tiny bit of background:

Late in the 1990s (‘98 or ’99) I decided to see if I could flush out some stories of the paranormal for a book I was writing about such topics.

I placed a classified ad in one of our local small-town newspapers, the Greenbush Tribune, a town of just over 700 population.

My ad read simply:

Have you seen a UFO, ghost, or anything you can’t explain? Please call me: xxx-xxxx. Confidentiality guaranteed.

Frankly, I was not expecting a single call. This is a conservative community of classic Lutheran Norwegian-Swedish-heritage grain and dairy farmers and small-town shop keepers. (My mom and dad owned the town’s only grocery store ... think Garrison Keillor, Prairie Home Companion and you'll get the feel of the type of community I'm talking about)!

But in just a day or two after the ad ran, I started getting calls. The first was from an elderly local dairy farmer by the name of Bernard Hanson. He told me about the day he and his son, Dexter, saw a 200-foot black UFO floating over the Minnesota country about 3 – 4 miles east of Greenbush.

The story I wrote about that can be seen here on UM -–> GIANT BLACK UFO

But the next call I received was from a Roseau County Sheriff’s deputy. As it turns out, before he was a cop in Roseau County, he worked as a cop in Marshall County on the same force as Val Johnson. (I did not ask him if he had ever worked with Val).

Anyway, he had his own glowing orange orb UFO encounter.

This one occurred on the east side of Marshall County. The Val Johnson event was in the western portion of the county.

By the way, the deputy told me his name – because I recognized his voice anyway over the phone (my wife's 1st cousin is also a cop on this force) – but anyway, he was a guy I knew.

He told me this story only on agreement that I NEVER reveal his identity, and I agreed.

So this is one of those pieces that will quote an “unnamed source” – just so you know (I',m not trying to hide anything – (I can already here the skeptics here gnashing their teeth) – but there it is – I can assure you this guy really was a genuine Roseau County cop because I know him … and he is the source for me on this story … but  I will take his name with me to my grave, unless he ever gives me permission to put him on the record for this story some day.

Anyway, this is what he told me, and I’m giving you the short version here:

It was a few years earlier (late 1980s) and he was on patrol in Marshall County and he had a rookie cop “trainee” with him (otherwise, deputies here patrol with just one guy in the squad car).

They were on a county blacktop in the sparsely populated, woodsy area of west Marshall County. They were a few miles from the tiny town of Grygla (population about 200). It was night, past midnight, I believe, and suddenly they two officers see an orange globe floating about in the Minnesota countryside.

Both officers were really stunned. This was obviously something very different, like they had never seen before (i.e., not an airplane, helicopter, etc.)  It appeared to them like a “largish orange-glowing basketball” moving above the tree line next to the highway.

The orb or sphere was just sort of flying around – it would dip below the tree line some time and they could see it glow between the dark trees – then it would rise up and sail around above an open farm field. This was in the general area of Grygla.

But they were saying things like – “Holy $$it! What the hell is that thing!” – The cop I interviewed said, “You had to be there to understand what a bizarre and amazing kind of sight this was to see this weird thing flying around. We just didn’t know what to think about it.”

They followed the orange globe around – at one point, they said they “chased it” with their squad car when it picked up speed than flew around here and there – to make a long story short, they eventually lost sight of it when it went behind some trees. There was really nothing more to be done ... 

So – their shift ended that night …

The next morning, a woman came into the Marshall County Sheriff’s office, looking haggard and nervous. She said she wanted to talk to a police officer alone.

This woman lived in a small farm – she lived by herself -- near the tiny  town of Grygla. She said she had been frightened out of her mind all night – she said it began when she noticed a sort of flashing light outside the windows of her farmhouse. At first she thought it might be "sheet lightening". This was at night, of course, the same night the two cops chased the orange globe around  the area.

She went to the window and was freaked out to see an orange globe flying around the vicinity of her small farm – she was not a real farmer, but just lived in the country, although she had some chickens and small barn sundry animals like some sheep or goats and a horse, I think.

Anyway – the orb was flying around out there, and she was going from window to window watching it. It really, really unnerved her because she had never seen anything like it before. Then, at one point, she heard her chickens and goats making noise and acting upset in their little barn/shed – and then she noticed the door had somehow come open and the animals were out, and sort of running around like they were frightened.

Now she was really getting scared. She was craning her neck looking out the window – the orb seemed to flying around the opposite side of the house from the window she was looking out of – she turned and looked across her living room to the other side of the house.

She has some large glass doors, you know, French door type door, that slide-open out onto a deck – but just before she walked over to the glass door to look out, she saw what she described as a “group of little men” go running swiftly by, right across the deck of her house!!

She said she only got a fast glimpse of them as they “skittered by” there was maybe 4, 5 or 6 of them all in a tight bunch – and their movement was sort of unnatural in a difficult to explains way – they were, like “so fast” and they just “zoomed along” – she said they were like the size of small children – she thought maybe they were children, but that made no sense since to kids would be running around her remote farm at night ---

That was it for her – she wanted to go out and shoo her critters back into their little barn, but she hunkered down for the rest of the night and didn’t dare so much as look out the window again until morning, even though she would still sometimes see the flashing light of the orange globe outside … when the sun came up, she drove to the sheriff’s to report her harrowing experience …

So that was her basic story –

The cop I was interviewed said no one in the sheriff’s office would have believed a single word this woman said  – and he said he would not have either –except he and his partner had been out in the same area the same night chasing around a glowing orb, too!

So that's the story as told to me by a local cop -- think of it what you will!

P.S. I subsequently spent a lot of time trying and legwork to find this woman, or get her name -- my source said "police confidentiality" means he had to keep her name from the public, as she strictly requested ... I tried to "flush her out" by publishing the story in a small local publication called "Rural Road Press"  (long defunct now) -- but I was never able to shake anyone loose on this -- I thought I could get someone who heard rumors, or something, but no one ever came forth -- so there it is, folks. 

I still hope to this day someone who knows something about it will come forward -- but it's been many years ago now, so not likely ... on the upside, after publishing this in Rural Road Press, I got at least a dozen more calls from other locals who had also seen glowing orbs. One call was from a very elderly retired dairy farmer from Warroad, Minnesota, who told me he had aliens in his house, but that's another story ...

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ChrLzs

So, Ironghost, you won't answer any of the questions posed to you above, and now wish to post walls of text, equally unsupported?

May I suggest you look up the term 'discussion forum', and take your stuff to a personal blog, rather than abuse this place.

As for me.. bye.

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IronGhost

Here is another fascinating tidbit on the Val Johnson case:

A study of the car's damage was conducted by Roland D. Wardell. He was a metallurgist and long-time engineer for Honeywell, the high-tech firm in the Twin Cities.

He said one or more of the damaged portions of the car damage could be ascribed to natural causes, but when taken all together, he said there is no good explanation and he, quote:  "did not rule out a  vehicle from outer space." He was quoted in the Minneapolis Star (Today the Minneapolis Star/Tribune):

He also said:

"I found no earthly explanations that could cause all those things. You could pick out all sorts of earthly explanations to cause single portions of it. But to cause all of those things, that makes it very interesting." 

You can find a photo copy of the Minneapolis Star newspaper clip here: CLIP

Note that this article does mentions the 14-minute time stoppage on both Val's watch and car clock, but I have found other newspaper clips where he does.

Furthermore, I have exciting news. I have located the former Army Military Police officer and helicopter pilot guy who encountered the same or highly similar object about a week later near where the Val Johnson incident took place and engaged in a high speed chase with the object. I have a call into him and will interview -- I believe he is okay with going on the record ... he lives in the Twin Cities now ... hopefully more on that soon.

Just one more note:

Roland Wardell died in 2006. His obituary praises his brilliant mind and lifetime reputation for "unwavering honesty." See his brief obit here: Wardell Obit

 

 

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the13bats
3 hours ago, IronGhost said:

He said one or more of the damaged portions of the car damage could be ascribed to natural causes

so then all of them together could be also done by natural causes, like i have said all along,

we get it you claim to be a writer, but here i dont hold you in any higher regards than the next member, actually less regards because to me you come off like a walking pile of fertilizer

you ignored questions, you ignored counter tech from others just as savvy as your alleged experts just to cling to your blind faith that this is a case of paranormal otherworldly phenomenon, you have presented no proof to that effect just hand waving and chest pounding.

next.

Edited by the13bats
typo
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stereologist

Here is what was also in the link and NOT quoted:

Quote

In concluding his report, Wardell said any statement as to what damaged the car would be speculation.

Roland Wardell described his interest in UFOs as "casual".

The idea of speculation was rampant at the time.

http://www.startribune.com/ufo-or-no-forty-years-later-a-minnesota-town-still-wonders/558012492/

Quote

Sheriff Dennis Brekke wasted no time calling in experts to investigate. Within days, Warren was visited by a metallurgical engineer from Honeywell, a glass expert from the Ford Motor Co., a consultant in hyperspectral imagery from a Brainerd laboratory — and Allen Hendry, a ufologist from the Center for UFO Studies in Chicago.

The experts could only speculate on the cause.

 

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IronGhost

I found another interesting addendum to the Val Johnson story.

Val encountered the car-ramming orb on August 27, 1979.

The day before, August 26, 1979, a guy by the name of Milt Maki was working with the Border Patrol in International Falls, Minnesota. (He later became a special contractor for the FBI and  the Department of Defense).

He and a fellow border patrol official were driving on Highway 11 west of International Falls, which is about 180 - 190 miles from “ground zero” of the Val Johnson incident.

Looking out the window of there car, they saw cruising above the Minnesota countryside a “bright-light disk-shaped object” – he said it looked like a classic UFO. The sighting occurred less than 24 hours before the Val Johnson event.

Mr. Maki and his partner kept their sighting a secret for many years for fear of being ridiculed. Then 20 years later – on the 20th Anniversary of the event – there was some local news and recaps about the event.

Maki heard a local radio program discussing the event, and decided it was time to “come clean.” He told local Minnesota writer Janet E. Smith:

“I believe what I saw is a UFO. And what is a UFO? It stands for Unidentified Flying Object. And that is exactly what we saw.”

He said the August 26 date remains vivid in his mind because he and his buddy were amazed when the Val Johnson story broke in the media on August 28. He felt the object encountered was similar to what he saw less than a day before about 190 miles from there.

Mr. Maki also said to Smith: "If you can't trust somebody like me, who can you trust?" 

Source: Scandals Magazine, March 1999 issue

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stereologist

So far there is nothing really compelling about this story.

Sounds to me more like an incident in which someone crashed their car and made up an excuse which turned out to be a unique one.

I guess other people will have to use BF or chupacabra as their memorable excuse.

None of the so-called experts could present anything unusual.

I still think that the clock/watch difference is nothing more than a car problem from a crash which caused the person to change their watch to match the car's time.

The fact that there are other UFO reports in the area means it is a normal place. 

You expect that to happen in places. One report begets another report begets another report.

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the13bats

is scandals mag like a national inquirier?

so ironghost,

since you are so very savvy on val johnson and i would hope that you agree a persons  credibility and intregrity are paramount in a case like this, lets discuse his getting fired for some funding issue, seems it ruined his carreer in law enforcement, can you please give the details ( unbiased ) you have on this as a professinal ( self roclaimed ) i would expect you researched it very well.

 

 

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IronGhost

I can tell you this:

The “funding dispute” associated with Val Johnson is a “Nothing Burger.”

Keep in mind this is almost 40 years ago, so I think pretty much everyone’s memory on this is hazy, but again, it was nothing much to begin with.

What I know about it personally comes from this source – Val Johnson’s mother-in-law, admittedly a sympathetic source.

As I said before, my mother and Val Johnson’s mother-in-law were next door neighbors. Val’s mother-in-law’s name was Daisy, and I’ll omit her last name since a lot of this family lives in my hometown and I don’t see why I should drag their names into this. (Daisy died in 2002).

But, anyway, I was home from college one day and I went around the back of the house and found my mom was out there talking to Daisy. I had brief chat.  I asked if Val was still a police officer and she said no, and she told me a bit about his last job in Roseau.
 

The very basic gist of it is this:

Val Johnson wanted more funding for the police department and the city council felt he should work with the budget he had. Val Johnson insisted they needed to shore up some things – like maybe he wanted to buy a new squad car for the department, and wanted to bolster the pay for his deputies, and, you know, maybe he wanted to buy a couple more shotguns or invest in some better dispatch radio equipment – or whatever.

The bottom line is, he wanted to spend more money and he wanted the Roseau City Council to vote to cough it up – they disagreed and the disagreements got more heated – the city council finally got fed up with Val and didn't feel they could work with him, so he got the boot. The city council wanted a more subservient lackey to push around.

As for it “ruining his career,” Val did sometimes say this, but he also said he was fed up with police work and took this as a good reason to cycle out of the low-paying, thankless job of being a small-town cop.

And that’s it.

 

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the13bats
2 hours ago, IronGhost said:

I can tell you this:

The “funding dispute” associated with Val Johnson is a “Nothing Burger.”

Keep in mind this is almost 40 years ago, so I think pretty much everyone’s memory on this is hazy, but again, it was nothing much to begin with.

What I know about it personally comes from this source – Val Johnson’s mother-in-law, admittedly a sympathetic source.

As I said before, my mother and Val Johnson’s mother-in-law were next door neighbors. Val’s mother-in-law’s name was Daisy, and I’ll omit her last name since a lot of this family lives in my hometown and I don’t see why I should drag their names into this. (Daisy died in 2002).

But, anyway, I was home from college one day and I went around the back of the house and found my mom was out there talking to Daisy. I had brief chat.  I asked if Val was still a police officer and she said no, and she told me a bit about his last job in Roseau.
 

The very basic gist of it is this:

Val Johnson wanted more funding for the police department and the city council felt he should work with the budget he had. Val Johnson insisted they needed to shore up some things – like maybe he wanted to buy a new squad car for the department, and wanted to bolster the pay for his deputies, and, you know, maybe he wanted to buy a couple more shotguns or invest in some better dispatch radio equipment – or whatever.

The bottom line is, he wanted to spend more money and he wanted the Roseau City Council to vote to cough it up – they disagreed and the disagreements got more heated – the city council finally got fed up with Val and didn't feel they could work with him, so he got the boot. The city council wanted a more subservient lackey to push around.

As for it “ruining his career,” Val did sometimes say this, but he also said he was fed up with police work and took this as a good reason to cycle out of the low-paying, thankless job of being a small-town cop.

And that’s it.

 

this case is something of a nithing burger,

so a major point of credibility and intregrity and as a professinal you basically did almost zero to investagate it, im not surprised at all, so you say you asked a very biased source got an expected sugar coated reply and seems you further embelished what she allegedly told you into your own agenda biased thoughts, while it sounds like what you called it, sympathetic,  thankless job? no, he was paid, the butt kissing thanks doesnt come with lots of jobs, i dont buy for one moment johnson was some good old andy tailor trying to get barney more guns a new car and fatter patchrck, but left his own pay right where it was, nor do i buy this would get a guy fired and ran out of law enforcement, unless there was more,

nope, more to this than you have dug up....

 

Edited by the13bats
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