Trump to keep US troops in Afghanistan

[aztek]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm..... a little earlier in this thread, people where talking about "you have to fight them over there, or you end up fighting them at home", a refference to terrorist attacks. 

However, I have a question in the context of Afghanistan. 

Has there been ANY terrorist attacks in the USA - or in Europe - that have been attributed to Afghans, or to the Taliban ?

I don't think there have been ?  

that is not why we invaded it,  it the poppy fields

[Dark_Grey]

16 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

[quoted from the article]

I'm sorry Phaeton but I am not seeing how this proves Islam is Democratic. Non-Muslims are granted equal rights so long as they pay the Islam tax? That is actually being practiced today - Christians living in Mulsim majority regions must pay the "jizya". What happens if they don't pay and thus are no longer eligible for the same rights and status as Muslims? Judging by the wanton slaughter and abuse of Coptic Christians lately, I have an idea of what that would look like.

I will grant you that last portion of the text - women may very well have held higher positions in early Islam. I am not an Islamic scholar so I can't tell you all of what the Quran says about women. 

Quote

Despite the tradition of female empowerment, the spirit of gender equality never fully developed under Islamic law, as much of the progressive momentum of Islam died with the Prophet.

That does not increase my faith in Islam as a religion. Women should be able to flourish under the religion based on the text and it's own merits, regardless of whether it's founder is alive. My question now is why did Islam devolve in to the backward state it's in today? That quote seems to imply it was all downhill after Muhammad's death.

[Dark_Grey]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

that is not why we invaded it,  it the poppy fields

As far as the eye can see...

Interesting how the big opiod/oxy boom started shortly after we went in to Afghanistan. You know, cause 9/11 happened so that's where we needed to attack. Also Iran.

[aztek]

[aztek]

maybe that is why we invaded it, cuz  bad Taliban banned the poppy, and timeline is just right,  looks like we came to ensure heroin keeps coming

Edited September 5, 2019 by aztek

[Dark_Grey]

18 minutes ago, aztek said:

maybe that is why we invaded it, cuz  bad Taliban banned the poppy, and timeline is just right,  looks like we came to ensure heroin keeps coming

There were real world conspirators who planned on developing and releasing a very addictive opiate in the US. We have them admitting as much on tape. I have no doubt the pharma industry has the capital to influence foreign relations in the pursuit of massive profits so the seizure of Afghanistan makes perfect sense. Were they going to grow all those poppies in Nebraska? Not likely.

Most people who work in that industry are there to make the world a better place but there are some greedy, psychotic pigs at the top who aren't so concerned with our health and wellness. Add to that billions of dollars in military contracts and we hardly need to explain the incentive for going over there.

[Setton]

On 8/31/2019 at 3:43 AM, GLCsector3295 said:

Because the rest of the free world has already proven they do not have the means, resources or the stomach / nerve to take a long haul approach to addressing global terrorism. An when good people give up, then what is left is a giant vacuum for evil to come swooping in.

Plus the fact that the US caused the vast majority of the terrorism we say today. Not so much that the rest of us can't or won't handle it, more that we expect you to clean up your own mess. 

[aztek]

and British empire created USA, and brought slavery too,  so it is all on YOU. you started the chain of events,

Edited September 5, 2019 by aztek

[Phaeton80]

3 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

I'm sorry Phaeton but I am not seeing how this proves Islam is Democratic. Non-Muslims are granted equal rights so long as they pay the Islam tax? That is actually being practiced today - Christians living in Mulsim majority regions must pay the "jizya". What happens if they don't pay and thus are no longer eligible for the same rights and status as Muslims? Judging by the wanton slaughter and abuse of Coptic Christians lately, I have an idea of what that would look like.

I will grant you that last portion of the text - women may very well have held higher positions in early Islam. I am not an Islamic scholar so I can't tell you all of what the Quran says about women. 

That does not increase my faith in Islam as a religion. Women should be able to flourish under the religion based on the text and it's own merits, regardless of whether it's founder is alive. My question now is why did Islam devolve in to the backward state it's in today? That quote seems to imply it was all downhill after Muhammad's death.

Well, see what happens when you stop paying taxes today. Concerning the slaying of Copts, I suppose you mean ISIS? It wouldnt be prudent to equate the acts perpetrated by these extremist criminals with Islam as a whole, I also suppose you know this very well.

Eventhough you are completely correct when stating women should be able to flourish under the religion regardless if the founder is alive, expecting it to be so seems rather naive. Did the Christian religion create love and understanding, turning the other cheek, respect women as men's equal throughout the ages after Christ's leave? Ofcourse, Western society has evolved in a positive manner in the sense of woman / man equality.. But a lot of time and a lot of contextual events passed before that was the case. In the ME things developed differently, but to blame Islam for that would be a misrepresentation, utterly simplistic, and simply unwise.

I am not here to 'increase your faith in Islam', I am here to counter the extremely black & white, xenophobic, tendentious 'Evil Islam' nonsense that is seeded across these boards on almost a daily basis.. Coming from individuals who have never taken any effort what so ever to research this religion and / or its scripture in an objective manner, yet state things definitively and agressively.

The reason for the state of the ummah today is extremely complex, but a lot of the variables which affected it towards the present situation are geo strategical in nature. More or less beginning with the fall of the Ottoman empire (helped by the Western use of Wahhabi extremists btw), the Sykes Picot treaty as well as the positioning of Western placed puppet rulers, culminating in the use of Islamic extremist ideologies to further political aspirations in the region, to this very day.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Gromdor]

I'm kind of curious who originally thought that inviting the Taliban for peace talks at Camp David a few days before the 9-11 anniversary was a good idea.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/08/politics/michael-waltz-taliban-9-11-pompeo-cnntv/index.html

[Raptor Witness]

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I'm kind of curious who originally thought that inviting the Taliban for peace talks at Camp David a few days before the 9-11 anniversary was a good idea.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/08/politics/michael-waltz-taliban-9-11-pompeo-cnntv/index.html

At this point, most people know by now that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. Just like Saddam Hussain had nothing to do with 9/11.

When truth is cast to the ground in the fashion that it has been by our military industrial complex, no manner of report that they spit out will ever be factual. They will invent any lie it takes to invade whomever they decide is an enemy, real or not.

The truth is, as exiting President Eisenhower warned, the military industrial complex has become a much more dangerous enemy of the people.

Google “what is the connection between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda”

 

Al Qaeda and the Taliban: Not the Same Thing. ... Al Qaeda is a global terrorist movement with the United States (including the American homeland) as a prominent, if not the primary, target. The Taliban is a Pashtun political movement with a focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan's largely Pashtun border-region - 

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Enough with the personal insults please.

[Grim Reaper 6]

21 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

At this point, most people know by now that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. Just like Saddam Hussain had nothing to do with 9/11.

When truth is cast to the ground in the fashion that it has been by our military industrial complex, no manner of report that they spit out will ever be factual. They will invent any lie it takes to invade whomever they decide is an enemy, real or not.

The truth is, as exiting President Eisenhower warned, the military industrial complex has become a much more dangerous enemy of the people.

Google “what is the connection between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda”

 

Al Qaeda and the Taliban: Not the Same Thing. ... Al Qaeda is a global terrorist movement with the United States (including the American homeland) as a prominent, if not the primary, target. The Taliban is a Pashtun political movement with a focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan's largely Pashtun border-region - 

Before Afghanistan was invaded 9/11 occurred, Osama Bin Laden took credit for the attack against America. At the time 9/11 occurred Osama had set up Terrorist training camps, also he was located in Afghanistan and the camps and Osama were being protected by the Taliban. 

When asked to turn over Osama Bin Laden by the US Government they absolutely refused to do so. So the US Military attacked the camps with Cruise Missiles, Then the US Government again requested that tha Taliban turn over Osama Bin Laden to them, the Taliban again refused to turn him over. This is when the US Military made plans and invaded Afghanistan.

This is the correct sequence of events as they happened, how do I know? Because I was part of the invasion forces that entered Afghanistan. Everything I have written above is exactly how the events played out.

Take Care

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:39 PM, aztek said:

that is not why we invaded it,  it the poppy fields

Man you really like those Poppy Fields. I can't count how many times you have brought that up in this thread.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[Raptor Witness]

4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Before Afghanistan was invaded 9/11 occurred, Osama Bin Laden took credit for the attack against America. At the time 9/11 occurred Osama had set up Terrorist training camps, also he was located in Afghanistan and the camps and Osama were being protected by the Taliban. 

When asked to turn over Osama Bin Laden by the US Government they absolutely refused to do so. So the US Military attacked the camps with Cruise Missiles, Then the US Government again requested that tha Taliban turn over Osama Bin Laden to them, the Taliban again refused to turn him over. This is when the US Military made plans and invaded Afghanistan.

This is the correct sequence of events as they happened, how do I know? Because I was part of the invasion forces that entered Afghanistan. Everything I have written above is exactly how the events played out.

Take Care

If a rogue element within the United States, attacked another country, would you adopt the same frame of mind? 

 This was a state-building, quasi-Christian crusade in the modern era, without any thought whatsoever to the consequences, or the cost to a heavily debt ridden country, that can’t even repair its own roads anymore, much less care for it’s elderly or veterans.  This invasion, to capture a rogue element within another sovereign state, is a crime against humanity, in my view. 

 The rogue element was eventually captured and killed in another sovereign state, which just happens to have its own nuclear weapons, so we didn’t invade that one, further adding to the argument that nuclear proliferation is a positive thing on earth.

 The US military is best exemplified by the Forrest Gump mentality, stumbling around the world, imagining it has a place everywhere.

The entire Afghan war was a disgusting exercise in futility.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

On 9/5/2019 at 9:39 AM, aztek said:

that is not why we invaded it,  it the poppy fields

That and the vast reserves of minerals. The Soviets were there for the same reasons.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagon-s-map-of-afghanistan-an-eldorado-of-mineral-wealth-and-natural-resources/32265

I believe there's a saying that Afghanistan is the "Graveyard of Empires"

I'd like to see the U.S. get permanently out of there and elsewhere but that isn't going to happen.

[ian hacktorp]

Trump Fires John Bolton After "Disagreeing Strongly With His Suggestions"

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/trump-fires-john-bolton-after-disagreeing-strongly-his-suggestions

One wonders if Bolton's firing had anything to do with the 'canceled' Taliban meeting at Camp David.

Either way, watch the Left scream about the "political firing" of "National Treasure" John Bolton.  Lol!

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by hacktorp

[RAyMO]

9 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Trump Fires John Bolton After "Disagreeing Strongly With His Suggestions"

Or if you believe Bolton, he resigned.

either way a potentially lucky 'out' for the world.

[RAyMO]

2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

I'd like to see the U.S. get permanently out of there and elsewhere but that isn't going to happen.

well perhaps more chance now that Bolton has gone.

[aztek]

17 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Trump Fires John Bolton After "Disagreeing Strongly With His Suggestions"

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/trump-fires-john-bolton-after-disagreeing-strongly-his-suggestions

One wonders if Bolton's firing had anything to do with the 'canceled' Taliban meeting at Camp David.

Either way, watch the Left scream about the "political firing" of "National Treasure" John Bolton.  Lol!

 

it is extremely probable,  

on one hand i see why Bolton  did not like the idea of Taliban at camp David, otoh i see what trump is doing, he wants to end conflict, it is pretty clear we will never be able to  kill all of them, so if we want to end the war we need to come to some kinda agreement, and with Bolton, it would not happen.

as they say in corporate world, he did not share company vision and values

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

on one hand i see why Bolton  did not like the idea of Taliban at camp David, otoh i see what trump is doing, he wants to end conflict, it is pretty clear we will never be able to  kill all of them, so if we want to end the war we need to come to some kinda agreement,

Yeah theyre both right kinda. The negotiations need to happen but bringing them here in September would have been offensive

[ian hacktorp]

17 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Or if you believe Bolton, he resigned.

Word is, Trump asked Bolton for his resignation last night, and Bolton gave it to him.  That's pretty much a firing.

[RAyMO]

Just now, hacktorp said:

Word is, Trump asked Bolton for his resignation last night, and Bolton gave it to him.  That's pretty much a firing.

except that Bolton has been texting every one and his granny to say otherwise.

[ian hacktorp]

7 minutes ago, aztek said:

it is extremely probable,

It wouldn't surprise me that Bolton tried to capitalize on the killings in Kabul in order to scuttle the peace talks.  Perhaps he even knew about it beforehand.

Many people feel that Trump hired Bolton in the first place order to keep an eye on him and his communications with the Neocons that have kept the US in endless wars in the ME and elsewhere.

[ian hacktorp]

5 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

except that Bolton has been texting every one and his granny to say otherwise.

Well, gee...that sounds believable.