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Weitter Duckss

Report: White dwarfs is small stars

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Weitter Duckss

White dwarfs (small stars) are not White Dwarfs

Author: Weitter Duckss

Croatian        Pусский

Summary

In order to determine the density of white dwarfs I used a database and created several relations, such as mass/radius of different star types, to create comparable data.  The results acquired in such a way reveal a real image, which is impossible to perceive if analysing only a small or limited quantity of stars and other objects. It doesn't work without a larger sequence of relations of different parameters.

The research represents the interweaving of data for white dwarfs and other hot stars when indicators start displaying comparable results. In these relations the values of rotation, the percentage of the objects orbiting around a central object and the explanation how different speeds of rotation, if unused, influence the irregular derivation of the gravitational results. Some other factors, essential in creating real values in astrophysics, are also analyzed here. The text is designated for all kinds of readers, independently of their levels and sorts of education.

Keywords: White Dwarfs; hot stars;  rotation speed

1. Introduction

The article analyses several parameters, included in several relations, based on which real data representing white dwarfs could be created, in the terms of their real density and some other factors that ascribe white dwarfs into that type of the celestial objects. There are more than 170 links in 10 tables, leading towards the database, in which a reader can check the source of information (reference). The goal of this is not to dispute or to support the mainstream points of view, but to introduce real data checking, which is available these days in the form of the official scientific measuring. The topic on matter is not limited to white dwarfs, but it rather analyzes all star types and the centers of galaxies.

2. Determining the density of white dwarfs and "normal" hot stars  

I use the existing databases in providing evidence to support or dispute the existence of extreme densities of stars and other objects. All evidence are related to the source of information through one or several steps. [1]

The method to acquire reliable data is to create a sequence of relations from the official measuring results, carried out and obtained on the same place and without the possibility to manipulate the results. The selection of evidence to be analyzed is as it is, because generally there are no cumulative data (temperature, mass, radius, luminosity, etc.) for a large number of objects. A part of the evidence are here on purpose, to be relevant and comparable inside the relations. The data from the relations are intended to cover the whole diapason of values: mass, radius, temperature, etc. A single object of a certain type is never an object of analysis, not even in a single case. If based on particular cases, the conclusions tend to be opposite to the real situation.

The claim that white dwarfs have an extreme density (...):

Quote: An Earth-sized white dwarf has a density of 1 x 109 kg/m3. Earth itself has an average density of only 5,4 x 103 kg/m3. That means a white dwarf is 200.000 times as dense. This makes white dwarfs one of the densest collections of matter, surpassed only by neutron stars. [2]

Firm observational evidence and well-founded theoretical understanding both exist for two classes of compact objects which support themselves against collapse by cold, degenerate fermion pressure: white dwarfs, whose interiors resemble a very dense solid, with an ion lattice surrounded by degenerate electrons, and neutron stars, whose cores resemble a giant atomic nucleus - a mixture of interacting nucleons and electrons, and possibly other elementary particles and condensates. White dwarfs are supported by the pressure of degenerate electrons, while neutron stars also Department of Astronomy and National Center for Supercomputing Applicaions, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Urbana, IL 61801 1 are supported by pressure due to a combination of nucleon degeneracy and nuclear interactions. (References: 75) end quote, [3]

It will be checked whether the relation  of mass and radius between white dwarfs and "normal" hot stars  is extremely different.  

Table 1. The observation of the parallel indicators of mass, radius, temperature and surface gravity

Star

Mass (M)

Radius

Mass/Radius

Temperature K

Surface gravity cgs

White Dwarf („Not normal“ hot stars „extremely dense“)

LP 40-365  [1]

0,14

0,078

1,8

10.000

5,80

IK Pegasi B

1,15

0,60 (0,72)

1,92

35.500 ± 1.500

8,95

PSR J0348 + 0432

0,172

0,065

2,65

/

/

Z Andromedae

0,75

0,17   0,36

4,41 – 2,08

90.000   150.000

/

KOI-74b 

0,22

0,043

5,12

12.700

/

WD J0651 + 2844

0,26

0,0371

7

16.530

/

AG Pegasi

0,6

0,0816

7,5– 0,0375

10.000 100.000

6,0

HD 149382

0,486

0,0345

14,09

56.300

/

NN Serpentis

0,535

0,0211

25,36

57.000 ± 3.000 

7,47 ± 0,01

G 240-72

0,81

0,00984

82,32

5.590 ± 90

8,36 ± 0,02

Sirius B

1,018

0,0084± 3%

121,19

25.000 ± 200

8,57

Normal hot stars

AB7

44

14

3,14

36.000

3,6

AB8 „O“

61

14

4,36

45.000

4,0

HD 93250

83,3 (65)

15,9

5,24

46.000

3,96

BAT99-98

226

37,5

6,03

45.000

/

VFTS 682

137,8

20,2

6,82

54.450 ± 1.960 

/

HD 269810

130

18

7,22

52.500

4,0

BI 253

84

10,7

7,85

50.100

4,2

R136a2

195

23,4

8,33

53.000

/

AB8A 

19

2

9,5

45.000

4,0

Melnick 42

189

21,1

9,96

47.300

3,9

HD 56925

13

1,26

10,32

112.000

/

R136c

230

18,4

12,5

51.000

/

WR 102

16,7

0,52

32,12

210.000

/

WR 142

28,6

0,80

35,75

200.000

/

Table 1. Relationshift: Mass/radius, temperature and surface gravity

White Dwarf LP 40-365, IK Pegasi B, PSR J0348 + 0432, Z Andromedae, KOI-74b , WD J0651 + 2844, AG Pegasi, HD 149382, HD 149382 and  NN Serpentis have the relation of mass/radius (Sun = 1) from 1,8 to 25,36.

Normal hot stars AB7 , to R136c have the relation from 3,14 to 12,5. Only typical members of these groups are inside these two relations. The data point out, beyond any doubt, that both groups, white dwarfs and normal hot stars are almost identical in terms of density. 

In both of these groups there are objects with very high temperatures (white dwarfs from under 10.000 (4.270 ± 70 Gliese 223.2) to 200.000°K (H1504 + 65, 200.000°K) [4] [5]  (310.000 °K PSR B0943 + 10) like normal hot stars and with high values of surface gravity (white dwarfs 5,80 to 8,95, Normal hot stars around 4 cgs).

Luminosity of white dwarfs is from 0,0005 L (LP 40-365), (0,000085 L G 240-72, 0,056 L Sirius B) to 880 L (Z Andromedae).  

Luminosity of normal hot stars is from 229.000 L (HD 56925) to 708.000 L (AB7)  5,623.000 L (R136c).

The claim of extreme densities and the existence of supernatural white dwarfs and other hypothetical dense objects (Their average density is about 1,000.000 times denser than the density of the Sun. A single sugar cube sized amount of white dwarf would weigh about 1 tonne. [6]) can't be reliably verified.  Hot stars can be small, medium and large. Their density is similar, according to the determined standards of mass/radius. The data of the relation mass/radius (Sun=1), 1,8 do 25,36, gives no indications of density which equals to 1,000.000 .

2.1. White Dwarfs vs. other types of stars with an emphasis on the speed of rotation

Now, let's determine which basic forces give stars different values of temperature,  luminosity, the relation of mass/radius and the value of surface gravity.

Table 2. The relation (of the section of main star types) of rotation, mass, radius, temperature and type

Star

Speed rotation

Maas Sun=1

Radius Sun=1

Temperature K

Type

 

White Dwarf 

GD 356

115

minutes

0,67

/

7.510,0

white dwarf 

EX Hydrae

67  

minutes

0.55 ± 0.15

/

/

white dwarf 

AR Scorpii A

1,95

minutes

0,81 – 1,29

/

/

white dwarf pulsar

V455 Andromedae

67,62

second

0,6

/

/

white dwarf 

RX J0648.0-4418

13

second

1,3

/

/

white dwarf 

Pulsar

PSR J0348+0432

39,123

m. second

2,01 ± 0,04

13 ± 2 km

/

pulsar

Vela X-1

283

second

1,88

~11,2

31.500

X-ray pulsar, B-type

Cen X-3

4,84

second

20,5 ± 0,7

12

39.000

X-ray pulsar

PSR B0943 + 10

1,1

second

0,02

2,6 km

310.000

pulsar

PSR 1257 + 12

6,22

m. second

1,4

10 km

28.856

pulsar

Wolf–Rayet stars

HD 5980 B

<400 

km/s

66

22

45.000

WN4

WR 2

500 

km/s

16

0,89

141.000

WN2-w

WR 142

1.000 

km/s

28,6

0,80

200.000

WO2

R136a2

200 

km/s

195

23,4

53.000

WN5h

Normal hot stars

VFTS 102

600±100

km/s

~25

/

36.000 ± 5.000

O9:Vnnne

Gamma Cassiopeiae

432

km/s

14,5

8,8

25.000

B0.5IVe

LQ Andromedae

300

km/s

8,0

3,4

40.000-44.000

O4If(n)p

Zeta Puppis

220

km/s

22,5 – 56,6

14 - 26

40.000-44.000

O4If(n)p

LH54-425 O5

250

km/s

28

8,1

45.000

O5V

Melnick 42

240

km/s

189

21,1

47.300

O2If

BI 253

200

km/s

84

10,7

50.100

O2V-III(n)((f*))

Red Dwarf

Gliese 876

96,6

days

0,37

0,3761±0.0059

3.129 ± 19

M4V

Kepler-42

2,9±0,4

km/s

0,13±0.05

0,17±0.04

3.068±174

M5V

Kapteyn's star

9,15 

km/s

0,274

0,291±0.025

3.550±50

sdM1

Wolf 359

<3,0

km/s

0,09

0,16

2.800 ± 100

M6.5 Ve

Normal cool stars

HD 220074

3,0

km/s

1,2 ± 0.3

49.7 ± 9.5

3.935 ± 110

M2III

V Hydrae

11 - 14

km/s

1,0

420 - 430

2.650

C6,3e

β Pegasi

9,7

km/s

2,1

95

3.689

M2.5II–IIIe

Betelgeuse

km/s

11,6

887 ±203

3.590

M1–M2 Ia–ab

F Type Star

Beta Virginis

4,3

km/s

1,25

1.681 ± 0.008

6.132 ± 26

F9 V

pi3 Orionis 

17

km/s

1,236

1,323

6.516 ± 19

F6 V

4 Equulei

6,2±1,0

km/s

1,39

~1,2

6.213±63

F8 V

6 Andromedae

18

km/s

1,30

1,50

6,425±218

F5 V

Table 2. The relation (of the section of main star types) of rotation, mass, radius, temperature and type

A column "Speed rotation" points to very fast rotations of white dwarfs, pulsars, Wolf–Rayet stars and O, B type stars.

Small hot stars make a rotation in a very short period (from miliseconds to a few minutes). Large hot stars rotate at the speed of above 400 km/s (Gamma Cassiopeiae). White dwarfs with a diameter of ~80 km makes a rotation generally in a few seconds (RX J0648.0-4418 13 seconds).

Wolf–Rayet stars are very fast-rotating stars, the speeds of which can be up to 1.000 km/s, which is generally accompanied by very high temperatures (WR 142 200.000°K, 1.000 km/s).

With the decrease of the rotational speed there is also the decrease of a star's temperature. Here it needs to be mentioned that  

Quote: Temperature and radiance are also affected by the tidal forces from the bigger or smaller binary effect, environment, the density of gas (layers) between the observer and a star, the speed of outer matter influx to the object, especially into a whirl or cyclone on the poles of a star (over 140 tons of space matter is falling daily to the surface of Earth [16]), different sums of the mass and rotation effects to the small and big stars. [7] end quote

Large (medium and small) red stars have the rotation from +0 to above 10 km/s and temperatures of 1.800 to above 4.000°K (S Cassiopeiae 1.800;  W Aquilae 1.800; V Hya 2.160; II Lup 2.000; V Cyg 1.875; LL Peg 2.000; LP And 2.040; V384 Per 1.820; S Aur 1.940; QZ Mus 2.200; AFGL 4202 2.200: V821 Her 2.200; V1417 Aql 2.000; S Cep 2.095;  etc.). [8]

A smaller star needs higher speed to achieve temperatures similar to those of large stars and the reason for it is that a larger object has more matter, which by friction and different speeds of rotation of different layers, creates higher temperatures.

2.2. Similar mass of stars it's situated in different classes (type) and different temperatures

Table 2. can be presented in such a way to create a relation: approximately the same mass/temperature and relate it to a star type. The relation has to show the same results for the same quantity of mass. It is unacceptable to claim that a single quantity of mass abides by several laws of nature or has several states, which would provide different results. The conditions should be almost identical or we are to explain, why a single quantity of mass has different laws of manifestation. The same goes for the claims that stars realize nuclear fission and fusion on the different levels, because there is one and the same quantity of mass on the same place. 

Tabele 3. (5) Star, type / mass / temperature

 

Star

Type

Mass Sun=1

Temperature °K

1

EZ Canis Majoris

WN3-hv

19

89.100

2

Centaurus X-3

O

20,5 ± 0,7

39.000

3

η Canis Majores

B

19,19

15.000

4

HD 21389

A

19,3

9.730

5

Kappa Pavonis

F

19 - 25

5.250 – 6.350

6

V382 Carinae

G

20

5.866

7

 S Persei

M

20

3.000-3.600

8

DH Tauri b

Planet; dist. 330 AU

12 M Jupiter

2.750

9

HIP 78530 b

Planet; dist. 740 AU

24 M Jup.

2.700 (2.800)

Table 3. Stars, similar mass (except No 8, 9, ), different classes (type) and temperatures. [7]

It is obvious from the table that the relation of the same mass, different temperatures and the other star type can be met only by the evidence from the table 2. The decrease of the rotational speed (with other incoming factors taken into consideration).

This is no exception, but rather a rule, that a majority of the diapason of the star mass, from the smallest to the largest, the stars belong to different types for any quantity of mass.

Table 4.  Type/ mass ~17/temperature

 

Star

Type

Mass Sun=1

Temperature °K

1.

WR 2,

WN4-s

16

141.000

2.

μ Columbae

O

16

33.000

3.

Deneb

A

19

8.525

3.

Gamma Cassiopeiae

B

17

25.000

4.

 VY Canis Majoris

M

17

3.490

5.

DH Tauri b

Planet; dist. 330 AU

12 M Jupiter

2.750

6.

HIP 78530 b

Planet; dist. 740 AU

24 M Jup.

2.700 (2.800)

7.

NML Cygni

M

50

3.834

Table 4.  Type/ mass ~17/temperature [10]

Table 5.  Type/mass ~2/temperature and radius

Star

Type

Mass (Sun = 1)

Temperature K

Radius (Sun=1)

Alpha Herculis A

M5 Ib-II

2,175-3,250

3.155-3.365

264-303

R Leporis

C7,6e(N6e)

2,5 – 5

2.245-2.290

400±90

Rho Orionis 

K0 III

2,67

4.533

25

29_Orionis

G8IIIFe-0.5

2,33

4.852

10,36

BX_Andromedae

F2V

2,148

6.650

2,01

Mu_Orionis

Aa

2,28

8.300

2,85

3_Centauri

B8V

2,47

9.638

2,8

Vela X-1

B0.5Ib pulsar

1,88

31.500

~11,2

HD_49798

sdO5.5

1,50

47.500

1,45

PSR J0348+0432

pulsar

2,01

/

13±2 km

14 Aurigae

white dwarf

1,64

7.498

/

GQ Lupi b

planet

1-36 MJup.

2.650 ± 100

Distance 100 AU

Table 5.  Type/mass ~2/temperature and radius

The result of the two Sun masses is taken to exclude the discussions of the existence of different types of combustion that are created due to different star formations. This is particularly expressed by the planet display, with temperatures of 2650 ± 100, which is a star with an independent process of creating warmth and radiation. This is stressed in the table 4, with planets which temperatures are ~2.700°K and their mass being from 12-24 masses of Jupiter, and the star NML Cygni with its mass of 50 MSun and the temperature of 3.834°K.

2.3. Bodies in distant orbits can be stars – planets

Table 6. Bodies with mass to 13 mass of Jupiter/temperature and distance

Planet and Brown dwarf

Mass of Jup.

Temperature°K

Distance AU

HD 106906 b

11±2

1.800

120

1RXS 1609 b

8 (14)

1.800

330

Cha 110913-773444

8 (+7; -3)

1.300 -1.400

 

OTS 44

11,5

1.700 - 2.300

 

GQ Lupi b

1 - 36

2.650 ± 100

100

ROXs 42Bb

9

1.950 ± 100

157

HD 44627

13 - 14

1.600 -2.400

275

DH Tauri b

12

2.750

330

2M1207b

4 (+6; -1)

1.600±100

40

2M 044144

9,8±1,8

1.800

15 ± 0.6

2MASS J2126-8140

13,3 (± 1,7)

1.800

6.900

HR 8799 c 

7 (+3; -2)

1.090 (+10; -90)

~38

HR 8799 d

7 (+3; -2)

1.090 (+10; -90)

~24

HIP 65426

9,0 ±3,0

1.450.0 (± 150.0)

9

Table 6. Bodies with mass to 13 mass of Jupiter/temperature and distance

Table 6. eliminates the claims that objects below 13 masses of Jupiter can't have an independent production of high temperatures, which is measured also on stars S Cassiopeiae 1.800;  W Aquilae 1.800; V Cyg 1.875; V384 Per 1.820; S Aur 1.940°K. [8]

2.4. Observing the density of bodies in our system

Table 7. Rotation/density

Body

Rotation

 

Mean

 density g/cm3

Mass Jupiter=1

Magnetic field G

Type

Sun

25,38

day

1,408

1047

1-2 (10–100 sunspots)

G2V

Jupiter

9,925

hours

1,326

1

4,2 (10–14 poles)

planets

Saturn

10,64

hours

0,687

0,299

0,2

planets

Uranus

(−)0,718 33

day

1,27

0,046

0,1

planets

Neptune

0,6713

day

1,638

0,054

0,14

planets

PSR J1745-2900

3,76

second

 /

1-3 (mass Sun)

1014

pulsar

Table 7. Rotation/density

Here I will give an additional explanation for a claim that "A small star with a high mass will have a high density, because all of its mass is getting squeezed into a small space…hence, it’s very dense. A larger star of the same mass will have a lower density due to its stuff not getting squeezed so much."[11] through the rotation of an object around its axis.

Jupiter has the fastest rotation in our system, but it doesn't affect the density of the planet – it is lower than the one of Sun, Neptune and Pluto. Saturn is particularly interesting  with its lowest density in the table 7. Pan 0,42 g/cm3, Atlas 0,46 g/cm3, Pandora 0,48 g/cm3, Prometheus 0,48±0,09 g/cm³ 67P/Ch-G  0,533 g/cm3, Amalthea 0,857±0,099 g/cm3).

This states that density doesn't change with the increase of mass, temperature and the speed of rotation. The speed of rotation in our system is significant with the objects that are inside the area, rich with matter, i.e., the area, where disks of gas and asteroid belts are created. The higher the frequency of matter incoming onto an object generally means that the discussed object will have a faster rotation and higher temperature.

Fast-rotating hot stars are generally situated in those parts of the space, which is rich with matter (nebulae).

Table 8. ~ % Mass of satellites Satellites /Central body

Body

~ % Mass of satellites

Satellites /Central body

Pluto

12,2

Earth

1,23

Neptune

0,385

Sun

0,14

Saturn

0,024

Jupiter

0,021

Uranus

0,00677

Table 8. ~ % Mass of satellites Satellites /Central body

If only the influence of gravity on the objects in an orbit or in the correlation of two stars is exclusively measured, that would be a wrong thing to do and it is presented in table 8. Pluto is the smallest object and it has the biggest percentage of its satellites' mass in the relation an object's mass/its satellites' mass in the orbit.

The stars with a fast rotation create impressive systems, independently of their mass or radius, to the opposite of the stars with a slow rotation.    

a fast rotating star

Figure 1. a fast rotating object

2.5. The band of matter concentration and the influence of rotational speed on bodies in orbits and centers of galaxies

In the formula for determining the behavior of planets, must be included temperatures of space and proximity to the central body, with special observation of the belt that is richer in matter.

Confirmation of this correctness it's easy to see that the satellites of Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune.. are in the zone where matter is concentrated. Their mass is significantly larger than other satellites.

It is obligatory to observe here reducing the distance of that belt, with shrinking temperatures of space as the planets move away from the central body, independent of the mass of the central body and the speed of rotation, though mass and the speed of rotation is and here very important.

Table 9. Orbital periods days, distance, mass

Exoplanets

Mass Jup.

orbital periods days

Distance AU

BD + 20 2457 c =1

orbital periods days

BD + 20 2457 c

12,47

621,99

2,01

1

HD 213240 b

4,5

951

2,03

+329,01

OGLE-2006-BLG-109Lb

0,73

1.788,5

2,3

+1.166,51

Gliese 317 b

2,5

692

1,5

+70,01

HD 95089 b

1,2

507

1,51

-114,99

HD 183263 b

3,67

626,5

1,51

+4,5

HD 143361 b

3,48

1.046,2

1,98

+424,21

HD 5319 b

1,76

641

1,6697

+19,01

V391 Pegasi b

3,2

1.170

1,7

+548,01

Table 9. Orbital periods days, distance, mass; BD + 20 2457 c =1

Table 9. shows that similar or identical distance of planets from their central object doesn't result with the same orbital period. This data is seriously undermining the idea of the uniformed reduction of the gravitational influence on the objects in our system and it shows that the speed of the objects in the orbit depends on mass as well as on the rotational speed of the central object and the mass of the objects in the orbit.

All these principles mentioned above are the same for the galactical centers, which are the largest objects in the Universe.

Table 10. (7) galaxies, relationship: type galaxies / rotational speed of galaxies

Galaxies

Type galaxies

Speed of galaxies

  Fast-rotating galaxies

 

RX J1131-1231

quasar

„X-ray observations of  RX J1131-1231 (RX J1131 for short) show it is whizzing around at almost half the speed of light.  [22] [23]

Spindle galaxy

elliptical galaxy

„possess a significant amount of rotation around the major axis“

NGC 6109

Lenticular Galaxy

Within the knot, the rotation measure is 40 ± 8 rad m−2 [24]

Contrary to: Slow Rotation

 

Andromeda Galaxy

spiral galaxy

maximum value of 225 kilometers per second 

UGC 12591

spiral galaxy

the highest known rotational speed of about 500 km/s,

Milky Way

spiral galaxy

210 ± 10 (220 kilometers per second Sun)

Table 10. (7) galaxies, relationship: type galaxies / rotational speed of galaxies; No 1-3 Fast-rotating galaxies, No 4-6 Slow-rotating galaxies. From [10]

3. Conclusion

When there is an increase of data quantity in the database, the preconditions are created to discuss the white dwarfs within realistic values as small, fast-rotating stars with the density, which is similar to other, both medium and large, hot stars. Their relation mass/radius is alternately either larger or smaller with the first ones and the second ones. Small fast-rotating stars (white dwarfs, pulsars, neutron stars, Wolf–Rayet stars, proto stars) have gas disks or significant asteroid belts, because they are formed inside the space, rich with matter. Very fast rotation creates fast orbits of gas, small and large objects. With the constant increase of matter, a star gathers it from the orbits (including the process of migration of hydrogen and helium from the smaller objects towards a star [12]) and, because of growth, disks and asteroid belts are growing smaller, accordingly to the relation of: a star's mass/the mass of matter in its orbit. Due to high temperatures of the fast-rotating stars, matter disintegrates into hydrogen (some helium is the product of the process of constant joining of particles). The traces of complex elements on hot objects are detected because there is a constant daily influx of matter, within which there are complex elements and compounds.      

________________________________________________________________

Reference:

[1]. 172 linnks type RX J1131-1231;  HD 183263 b;  Jupiter; GQ Lupi b; dist. 330 AU; BI 253 etc. in one to multiple steps leads to

the source

...

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Weitter Duckss

OK.

All articles, that I post or post to a forum, have prior or subsequent publication in a scientific journal.

Part of the scientific journals defends this type of publication. So first I post on the forum (here and newteory.ru) and then I send the article to the publisher. Subsequently, I set a link to a published article and journal.

This is probably my bad habit, I'll break with it.

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RoofGardener

Could you give us a single-paragraph (max 250 words) executive summary of your research ? 

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Weitter Duckss

The claim of extreme densities and the existence of supernatural white dwarfs and other hypothetical dense objects (Their average density is about 1,000.000 times denser than the density of the Sun. A single sugar cube sized amount of white dwarf would weigh about 1 tonne.  https://www.universetoday.com/24681/white-dwarf-stars/ ) can't be reliably verified.  Hot stars can be small, medium and large. Their density is similar, according to the determined standards of mass/radius. The data of the relation mass/radius (Sun=1), 1,8 do 25,36, gives no indications of density which equals to 1,000.000 .

White Dwarf LP 40-365IK Pegasi BPSR J0348 + 0432Z AndromedaeKOI-74b WD J0651 + 2844AG PegasiHD 149382HD 149382 and NN Serpentis have the relation of mass/radius (Sun = 1) from 1,8 to 25,36.
Normal hot stars AB7 , AB8 „O“, HD 93250, BAT99-98, VFTS 682, HD 269810, BI 253, R136a2, AB8A, Melnick 42, HD 56925 and R136c have the relationfrom 3,14 to 12,5. Only typical members of these groups are inside these two relations. The data point out, beyond any doubt, that both groups, white dwarfs and normal hot stars are almost identical in terms of density.  
In both of these groups there are objects with very high temperatures (white dwarfs from under 10.000 (4.270 ± 70 Gliese 223.2) to 200.000°K (H1504 + 65, 200.000°K) [4] [5]  (310.000 °K PSR B0943 + 10) like normal hot stars...

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bmk1245
On 9/3/2019 at 5:27 PM, RoofGardener said:

Could you give us a single-paragraph (max 250 words) executive summary of your research ? 

Could be summed up in simple sentence: pure bs laced with sheer ignorance and wrapped in utter incompetence. When you see someone measuring density in mass/length, and not in mass/volume, thats is a BIG RED FLAG. Just an example, Sirius A (main sequence A0 spectral type star) has density* ~0.6 g/cm(grams per cubic centimeter) while companion white dwarf Sirius B has density of ~2400000 g/cm3 (over 2 metric tones per cubic centimeter). And that goes for other white dwarfs - from few/several kg/cm3 to metric tones per cubic centimeter.

OP has zero grasp in basic physics and mathematics. And don't get swayed by the so called "scientific papers" OP have published in "scientific journals". Fact is, predatory publishers will publish any kind of nonsense, just give them $.

[*] average density, since core is much denser than outer layers.

Edited by bmk1245
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Weitter Duckss
4 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Sirius A (main sequence A0 spectral type star) has density* ~0.6 g/cm(grams per cubic centimeter) while companion white dwarf

An "interesting" story but you don't provide evidence. You obviously had a bad dream.
Try to show me the formula of the volume without radius.
You are obviously lying, because I have clearly stated the mass (for example: Sirius B 1,018 M Sun; radius 0.0084 ± 3%, etc.).
You do not understand the mass / radius relationship at all (Sun = 1; Sirius B = 121.19).
How can something have extreme density if it has a mass / radius ratio (Sun = 1) of 1.8 to 25.36? At the same time, hot stars with the same mass / radius result (Sun = 1) have: "Sirius A has density ~ 0.6 g / cm3"!!!
Try giving another pearl and show your "advanced" knowledge.
Why don't we see your "scientific" works?
I often have a feeling that you don't even know what you are writing. Do you applaud yourself?

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bmk1245

**Snip** Still trying to push mass/radius as density.. Freakin' hilarous!

Case in point - Sirius B (white dwarf) density is ~2400000 g/cm3, while Sirius A - 0.58g/cm3.

**Snip**

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
Personal attacks removed. Attack the point of view, not the person.
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Weitter Duckss
On 9/7/2019 at 4:07 PM, bmk1245 said:

Sirius A - 0.58g/cm3.

 

White Dwarf

Star

Mass (M)

Radius

Mass/Radius

Temperature K

Surface gravity cgs

KOI-74b 

0,22

0,043

5,12

12.700

/

WD J0651 + 2844

0,26

0,0371

7

16.530

/

AG Pegasi

0,6

0,08 – 16

7,5– 0,0375

10.000 – 100.000

6,0

contrary to

Normal hot stars

HD 93250

83,3 (65)

15,9

5,24

46.000

3,96

VFTS 682

137,8

20,2

6,82

54.450 ± 1.960 

/

HD 269810

130

18

7,22

52.500

4,0

BI 253

84

10,7

7,85

50.100

4,2

 

Sirius A ..................2,063...........1,711..............1,057276.......9.940.....................4,33

contrary to

White Dwarf

LP 40-365  [1]

0,14

0,078

1,8

10.000

5,80

Watch and cry. Maybe (finally) you start learning. You and your extreme science with false evidence.

**Snip**

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
Personal attacks removed. Attack the point of view, not the person.

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bmk1245
On 9/7/2019 at 4:39 PM, Weitter Duckss said:

 

White Dwarf

Star

Mass (M)

Radius

Mass/Radius

Temperature K

Surface gravity cgs

KOI-74b 

0,22

0,043

5,12

12.700

/

WD J0651 + 2844

0,26

0,0371

7

16.530

/

AG Pegasi

0,6

0,08 – 16

7,5– 0,0375

10.000 – 100.000

6,0

contrary to

Normal hot stars

HD 93250

83,3 (65)

15,9

5,24

46.000

3,96

VFTS 682

137,8

20,2

6,82

54.450 ± 1.960 

/

HD 269810

130

18

7,22

52.500

4,0

BI 253

84

10,7

7,85

50.100

4,2

 

Sirius A ..................2,063...........1,711..............1,057276.......9.940.....................4,33

contrary to

White Dwarf

LP 40-365  [1]

0,14

0,078

1,8

10.000

5,80

Watch and cry. Maybe (finally) you start learning. You and your extreme science with false evidence.

**snip**

Look, **snip**, density of KOI-74b  is ~3.9 kilograms per cubic centimeter, and, for example, Sun's density is ~1.4 g/cm3.

 

BTW, LP 40-365 density is ~0.4kg/cm3. How that compares to 1.4 g/cm3 of the Sun?

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
Personal attacks removed. Attack the point of view, not the person.
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Rlyeh

Wait, are you saying stars generate heat by the friction of their spin?

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bmk1245
10 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Wait, are you saying stars generate heat by the friction of their spin?

Thats pink horsey of OP.

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Weitter Duckss

@ bmk1245 

Look, moron, KOI-74b  „ has Mass/Radius 5,12 some as and HD 93250 5,24 (Sun = 1). You claim that  and HD 93250  also has a density of ~3.9 kilograms per cubic centimeter, and, for example, Sun's density is ~1.4 g/cm3.“

Both bodies have the same ratio mass in volume per cm3.

Why are you telling falsehoods like your sources. They have interest money. **snip**

 

@ Rlyeh

Tables 2 and 3,4,5 offer the answer although this is not the topic here. Why do bodies of the same or similar mass have different temperatures?

Or,

Sirius A ..................2,063...........1,711..............1,057276.......9.940.....................4,33

contrary to

White Dwarf

LP 40-365  [1]

0,14

0,078

1,8

10.000

5,80

Two completely different bodies have the same temperatures.

Additionally

Table 6. planets, large distance orbits, mass/temperature

 

 

 

Planet

Mass of Jupiter

Temperature K

Distance AU

1

GQ Lupi b

1-36

2650 ± 100

100

2

ROXs 42Bb

9

1,950-2,000 

157

3

HD 106906 b

11

1.800

~650

4

CT Chamaeleontis b

10,5-17 

2.500

440

5

HD 44627

13-14

1.600-2.400

275

6

1RXS 1609 b

14

1.800

330

7

UScoCTIO 108 b

14

2.600

670

8

Oph 11 B

21

2.478

243

Table 6. Planets at a great distance from the stars with high temperatures and different mass.

And

Table 6. Brown dwarf and planets, mass/temperature

Mass up to 15 MJ/(vs) Mass above 15 M

 

Brown dwarf (& planets)

Mass of Jupiter

Temperature °K

Planets orbit AU

 

1

ROXs 42Bb

9

1.950 ± 100

157

 

2

54 Piscium B

50

810±50

 

 

3

DH Tauri b

12

2.750

330

 

4

ULAS J133553.45+113005.2

15 -31

500 -550

 

 

5

OTS 44

11,5

1.700 - 2.300

 

 

6

Epsilon Indi Ba and Bb

40 – 60 (28±7)

1.300-1400 (880-940)

1.500 (between 2,1)

 

7

2MASS J2126-8140

13,3 (± 1,7)

1.800

6.900

 

8

Gliese 570

~50

750 - 800

1.500

 

Mass vs Mass

 

 

9

2M 044144

9.8±1.8

1.800

15 ± 0.6

10

DT Virginis

8.5 ± 2.5

695±60

1.168

11

Teide 1

57± 15

2.600±150

 

12

Epsilon Indi Ba and Bb

40 – 60 (28±7)

1.300-1400 (880-940)

1.500 (between 2,1)

13

B Tauri FU

15

2.375

700

14

DENIS J081730.0-615520

15

950

 

Table 6. Brown dwarf and planets (at a great distance), relationship: mass up to 15 MJ/(vs) mass above 15 M and Mass vs Mass and temperature. [11]

Or

 

  Brown dwarf & planets

Mass of Jupiter

Temperature °K

Planets orbit AU

 

mass up to 13 Mass of Jupiter

1

CFBDSIR 2149-0403

4-7 

~700

 

2

PSO J318.5-22

6,5

1.160

 

3

2MASS J11193254-1137466 (AB)

~5-10

1.012

3,6±0,9

4

GU Piscium b

9-13

1.000

2.000

5

WD 0806-661

 6-9

 300-345

2.500

6

Venus

0,002 56

737

0,723

7

Earth

0,003 15

184 - 330

1,00

Is there another reasonable explanation?

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
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bmk1245
On 9/7/2019 at 9:39 PM, Weitter Duckss said:

[...]

Is there another reasonable explanation?

Yes, there is another reasonable explanation: you are **snip** who measures density in mass/radius.

What density means you can find here.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
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Weitter Duckss
On 9/7/2019 at 10:31 PM, bmk1245 said:

What density means you can find here.

Densities of various materials covering a range of values

Material

ρ (kg/m3)[note 1]

Notes

Hydrogen

0.0898

 

Helium

0.179

 

Aerographite

0.2

[note 2][8][9]

Metallic microlattice

0.9

[note 2]

Aerogel

1.0

[note 2]

Air

1.2

At sea level

 Etc.

„You **snip** who measures density“ of stars and other bodies using this link.

You probably go to the stars and measure the elements. Wau!

 

Body

Rotation

 

Mean

 density g/cm3

Mass Jupiter=1

Magnetic field G

Type

Sun

25,38

day

1,408

1047

1-2 (10–100 sunspots)

G2V

Jupiter

9,925

hours

1,326

1

4,2 (10–14 poles)

planets

Saturn

10,64

hours

0,687

0,299

0,2

planets

Uranus

(−)0,718 33

day

1,27

0,046

0,1

planets

Neptune

0,6713

day

1,638

0,054

0,14

planets

Sirius A

16

km/s

0,58 (?)

2.063 ± 0.023 MSun

/

A0mA1 Va

Table 7. Rotation/density

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
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Manwon Lender
11 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Wait, are you saying stars generate heat by the friction of their spin?

This is an interesting thread thank god I have plenty of popcorn, I think I will just sit on the sidelines and watch.B)

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Weitter Duckss
54 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I will just sit on the sidelines and watch.

Nice. You make the most of the fun of the Forum. Still, nothing does not raise adrenaline as a debate.

 

 

Star

Temperature K

Rotation speed km/s

Mass Sun 1

Radius Sun 1

Surface gravity cgs

1

Betelgeuse

3.590

11,6

887 ±203 

-0,5

2

Andromeda 8

3.616±22

5±1 

/

30

1±0.25

3

β Pegasi

3.689

9,7

2,1

95

1,20

4<

Aldebaran

3.910

634 day

1,5

44,2

1,59

5

HD 220074

3.935

3

1,2

49,7 ± 9.5

1.3 ± 0.5

6

Beta Ursae Minoris

4.030

8

2,2

42,6

1,83

7

Arcturus

4.286

2.4±1.0

1.08±0.06

25.4±0.2

1.66±0.05

8

Hamal

4.480

3,44

1,5

14,9

2,57

9

Iota Draconis

4.545

1,5

1,82

11,99

2,5

10

Pollux

4.666

2,8

2,04

8,8

2.685±0.09

11

 ζ Cyg A

4.910

0.4 ± 0.5

3,05

15

2,41

12

Capella

4.970

4,1

2.5687

11,98

2,691

 

13

Alpha Pegasi

9.765

125

4,72

3,51

3,51

14

η Aurigae

17.201

95

5,4

3,25

4.13 ± 0.04

15

Eta Ursae Majoris

16.823

150

6,1

3,4

3,78

16

Spica secondary

20.900±800

199

7.21±0.75

3,74±0.53

4.15±0.15

17

λ Scorpii

25.000±1.000

150

14,5

8,8

3,8

18

Gamma Cassiopeiae

25.000

432

17

10

3,50

19

Zeta Puppis

40.000-44.000

220

22,5 – 56,6

14-26

3,5

20

LH54-425 O5

45.000

250

28

8,1

4,07

21

S Monocerotis

38.500

120

29,1

9,9

4,5

22

LH54-425 O3

45.000

197

47

11,4

4,0

23

HD 93129

42.500

130

110

22,5

3,71

24

HD 5980 B

45.000

400

66

22

/

25

BI 253

50.100

200

84

10,7

4,20

26

HD 269810

52.500

173

130

18

4,0

27

Melnick 42

47.300

240

189

21,1

3,90

28

WR 2

141.000

500

16

0,89

/

29

WR 142

200.000

1.000

20

0,40

/

Table 15. Stars, relationship: temperature/rotation speed/ surface gravity and mass/radius. No 1-12 cold stars, 13-29 hot stars.

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Manwon Lender
12 minutes ago, Weitter Duckss said:

Nice. You make the most of the fun of the Forum. Still, nothing does not raise adrenaline as a debate.

 

 

Star

Temperature K

Rotation speed km/s

Mass Sun 1

Radius Sun 1

Surface gravity cgs

1

Betelgeuse

3.590

11,6

887 ±203 

-0,5

2

Andromeda 8

3.616±22

5±1 

/

30

1±0.25

3

β Pegasi

3.689

9,7

2,1

95

1,20

4<

Aldebaran

3.910

634 day

1,5

44,2

1,59

5

HD 220074

3.935

3

1,2

49,7 ± 9.5

1.3 ± 0.5

6

Beta Ursae Minoris

4.030

8

2,2

42,6

1,83

7

Arcturus

4.286

2.4±1.0

1.08±0.06

25.4±0.2

1.66±0.05

8

Hamal

4.480

3,44

1,5

14,9

2,57

9

Iota Draconis

4.545

1,5

1,82

11,99

2,5

10

Pollux

4.666

2,8

2,04

8,8

2.685±0.09

11

 ζ Cyg A

4.910

0.4 ± 0.5

3,05

15

2,41

12

Capella

4.970

4,1

2.5687

11,98

2,691

 

13

Alpha Pegasi

9.765

125

4,72

3,51

3,51

14

η Aurigae

17.201

95

5,4

3,25

4.13 ± 0.04

15

Eta Ursae Majoris

16.823

150

6,1

3,4

3,78

16

Spica secondary

20.900±800

199

7.21±0.75

3,74±0.53

4.15±0.15

17

λ Scorpii

25.000±1.000

150

14,5

8,8

3,8

18

Gamma Cassiopeiae

25.000

432

17

10

3,50

19

Zeta Puppis

40.000-44.000

220

22,5 – 56,6

14-26

3,5

20

LH54-425 O5

45.000

250

28

8,1

4,07

21

S Monocerotis

38.500

120

29,1

9,9

4,5

22

LH54-425 O3

45.000

197

47

11,4

4,0

23

HD 93129

42.500

130

110

22,5

3,71

24

HD 5980 B

45.000

400

66

22

/

25

BI 253

50.100

200

84

10,7

4,20

26

HD 269810

52.500

173

130

18

4,0

27

Melnick 42

47.300

240

189

21,1

3,90

28

WR 2

141.000

500

16

0,89

/

29

WR 142

200.000

1.000

20

0,40

/

Table 15. Stars, relationship: temperature/rotation speed/ surface gravity and mass/radius. No 1-12 cold stars, 13-29 hot stars.

My comments were not ment to be disrespectful to you or anyone else. But I am not going to join the fight, like I said I will watch and learn.

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bmk1245
On 9/8/2019 at 7:28 AM, Weitter Duckss said:

Densities of various materials covering a range of values

Material

ρ (kg/m3)[note 1]

Notes

Hydrogen

0.0898

 

Helium

0.179

 

Aerographite

0.2

[note 2][8][9]

Metallic microlattice

0.9

[note 2]

Aerogel

1.0

[note 2]

Air

1.2

At sea level

 Etc.

„You **snip** who measures density“ of stars and other bodies using this link.

You probably go to the stars and measure the elements. Wau!

 

Body

Rotation

 

Mean

 density g/cm3

Mass Jupiter=1

Magnetic field G

Type

Sun

25,38

day

1,408

1047

1-2 (10–100 sunspots)

G2V

Jupiter

9,925

hours

1,326

1

4,2 (10–14 poles)

planets

Saturn

10,64

hours

0,687

0,299

0,2

planets

Uranus

(−)0,718 33

day

1,27

0,046

0,1

planets

Neptune

0,6713

day

1,638

0,054

0,14

planets

Sirius A

16

km/s

0,58 (?)

2.063 ± 0.023 MSun

/

A0mA1 Va

Table 7. Rotation/density

Anyone with little bit of knowledge in math can calculate density, here is the formula: (MStar*1.9885E33)/((4/3)*pi*(RStar*69634200000)^3); MStar -star mass in MSun, RStar - radius of the star in RSun;1.9885E33 is the mass of the Sun in grams (1.9885*1030 kg = 1.9885*1033 g), 69634200000 - radius of the Sun in cm (696342 km = 696342000 m = 69634200000 cm). I'm sure OP won't be able to do that, so I'm asking other UM dwellers to check my math, please.

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bmk1245
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

This is an interesting thread thank god I have plenty of popcorn, I think I will just sit on the sidelines and watch.B)

Dammit... Now I wanna popcorn...

  • Haha 1

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Rlyeh
12 hours ago, Weitter Duckss said:

Tables 2 and 3,4,5 offer the answer although this is not the topic here. Why do bodies of the same or similar mass have different temperatures?

How do you link their spin to their temperature?

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Weitter Duckss
5 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

How do you link their spin to their temperature?

It is (today) a classic statistic. Create a table with the default parameters (mass, radius, temperature, spectral type, surface gravity, etc.) and pickaxe (search) database available.

2012 was not so easy. I (for some unknown reasons) do the opposite. First, based on following these subject, I create a framework. Later (as in this article) I edit the statistics.

If you consistently follow the principles, no errors. However, my knowledge of the matter also lies in the published information, which leads to subsequent adjustments to articles already published.

 

The temperature of stars is directly related to the speed of its rotation. Those with slower rotation are red, while with the increase of the rotation speed, also increases the glow and temperature of a star. As a consequence, it turns white and blue. If we consult the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram, it is obvious that both very small and super giant stars can have the same glow; they can be white, red or blue. The mass and quantity of so-called fuel that they supposedly burn is obviously an unacceptable answer – there are stars of the same mass, or sizes, but with a completely different glow. If we were to try to explain that by the presence of different elements, it would make no sense. Diversity of elements depends exactly on the temperature heights: the higher the temperature, the lower the diversity and order of elements.

diagram

The lower the temperature, the higher are diversity and presence.

If stars were to burn some fuel, they would lose their mass, which is not the case. On the contrary, they constantly gain mass with the outer mass incoming from the system (comets, asteroids, planets). Furthermore, it is wrong and opposite to the evidence to claim that stars shine because of the radioactive processes deep inside them. Beyond any doubt, they are not radioactive; besides other facts, there is magma on Earth, which shows no sign of radioactivity. To claim that these processes occur deep in the interiority of a star is unacceptable, because, due to high temperature, matter dislocates from the interiority towards surface. It goes vice versa, too, because this is one and the same object, not two distant worlds. All that we don’t understand about stars is evident here, on Earth. It is also heated, except for the crust, the thickness of which is less than one part per thousand, related to the melted part. If radiation doesn’t exist on Earth, it doesn’t exist on stars either, because the principle needs to be the same. But there is information that the objects, the mass of which exceeds 10% of Sun’s mass, produce glow. The force of attraction is a correction factor to this percentage: if an object is in its orbit closer to a star, the mass of the glowing object is significantly below 10%. That is proved by the vast majority of exoplanets discovered so far (“hot Jupiters”)...  2012.

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bmk1245
On 9/8/2019 at 5:47 PM, Weitter Duckss said:

[...]

If stars were to burn some fuel, they would lose their mass, which is not the case. [...]

Stars do lose mass, that is a fact. E=mc2 to help: knowing how much energy star radiates (luminosity), one can estimate mass loss. And thats only by radiation related loss. If you account solar winds, mass loss will be higher. There is plethora of scientific papers and book on this subject.

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Weitter Duckss
6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

There is plethora of scientific papers and book on this subject.

There is an endless book about elves, vampires, zombies, about science, which is science and truth in the first place and no matter what money is, ..

Yet these are just stupid fun for gullible and tractable. If you can't provide evidence of where that matter goes, let's move on.

Let's move on.

Another discovery of the C-2019 interstellar facility.

„One object becomes a nova and a large number (millions) of others with the same parameters just go on the same way. ..

The only possible specificity is for that object (the errant objects, incoming from outside the Solar system) to arrive vertically onto one of the poles and to hit the opening of a cyclone that exists on the poles of stars. That way, it would get an opportunity to break into the interior of an object.
When discussing the vertical trajectories, it is necessary to point out that only the forces of attraction exist there, because an object creates the forces of repulsion in the horizontal direction only.„

Do you remember the comment:

Which body and with a vertical trajectory in relation to what?

I would say it is not.“

„Things with vertical trajectories aren't usually particularly wide.“

 

What are the dimensions of destruction and creation in the Universe? Posted July 2, 2014

Today it is proven and even more so it has become popular.

It would be convenient to discuss the possible consequences of the impact of these bodies in the vortex of Sun.

Are my calculations from:

doi:  10.18483 / ijSci.1908 2.3. The Processes That Lead to the Acceleration and Deceleration of an Object's Rotation Around Its Axis

realistic or you will say again „I would say it is not.“

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bmk1245
On 9/15/2019 at 3:42 PM, Weitter Duckss said:

There is an endless book about elves, vampires, zombies, about science, which is science and truth in the first place and no matter what money is, ..

[...]

And thats what your garbage is, none better than worst kind of scifi 

On 9/15/2019 at 3:42 PM, Weitter Duckss said:

[...]

Yet these are just stupid fun for gullible and tractable. If you can't provide evidence of where that matter goes, let's move on.

[...]

 

It was already provided many times for you. **snip**

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
Personal attacks removed.

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