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Sir Smoke aLot

New Israel-Lebanon war on horizon?

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Setton
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

So in other words they attacked Iranian militia sites ? 

Good riddance to bad rubbish ! :D 

Question: if they attack foreign fighters in.. say.. Iraq, does that count as an attack against Iraq ? :unsure2:

I'll say it again, slowly. 

They

Are

Part 

Of 

The 

Iraqi 

State 

They are not foreign fighters. They are Iraqi citizens fighting for the Iraqi government (officially), on Iraqi soil. 

Attacking them is an attack on Iraq. 

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DarkHunter
1 hour ago, Setton said:

I'll say it again, slowly. 

They

Are

Part 

Of 

The 

Iraqi 

State 

They are not foreign fighters. They are Iraqi citizens fighting for the Iraqi government (officially), on Iraqi soil. 

Attacking them is an attack on Iraq. 

That's a funny thing that they are Iraqi citizens and fighting for the Iraqi government now.  About a week ago you were saying they were Iranian forces completely loyal to Iran.

Quote

Local 'Iraqi' (in name only), troops that receive all their funding from Iran, equipped by Iran, who swear loyalty to the supreme leader of Iran (not the Iraqi PM), many of whom belong to groups which far predate ISIS and have been killing western soldiers since 2003?

Yes, that would be them. 

The PMF is supposed to be something like 100,000 strong. At least half of those will jump to do Iran's bidding (or just what they guess it might be). 

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/329172-iran-has-seized-a-british-oil-tanker/page/3/#comments

Really curious on how stuff changes based on what you need.

Even then the one arms depot explosion that has been confirmed to of been done by Israel only had 3 dead, one of which was an Iranian and the other 2 not having their identity released by the Iraq government.

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and then
16 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

IDF's warplanes and rockets killed scores of Hezbollah fighters in Syria, fighters who fought isis and there was no reply so far.

Maybe that little civil war in Syria had them busy?  I don't care what the Hezzies do.  If they make a point of interfering while Israel takes out Iranian bases and arms then they can suffer a slaughter like they never dreamed of in Syria.  Their choice, at this point.  Israel has been preparing for a multi-front war for the last couple of years and they've been training hard.  FAR better from Israel's POV to get into this fight while Trump has their back.  Be careful what you wish for.  

 

ETA: https://worldisraelnews.com/israel-called-off-devastating-strike-on-hezbollah-says-idf-source/ 

Looks like Nappy Nasrallah may have had a close call.  I hope he has some spare pantaloons to clean up in.  :w00t:

Edited by and then
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RoofGardener
10 hours ago, Setton said:

I'll say it again, slowly. 

They

Are

Part 

Of 

The 

Iraqi 

State 

They are not foreign fighters. They are Iraqi citizens fighting for the Iraqi government (officially), on Iraqi soil. 

Attacking them is an attack on Iraq. 

I'll say it again, slowly.

Iranian

Troops

Are

Part

of

the

IRAQI

State ? 

Israel contends that the warehouses it bombed where being used by Iranians to trans-ship missiles and weapons into Syria. One of the people killed was confirmed as being an Iranian. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/world/middleeast/israel-iraq-iran-airstrike.html

It's also the first such attack in 40 years. The previous one was to destroy Saddam's nuclear reactor. Now, THAT was most certainly an attack against the Iraqi state. But the most recent one - targeting an Iranian facility - is that really in the same category ? If it WAS an attack against the Iraqi state, then the Iraqi state was complicit in assisting the Iranians to transport weapons to anti-Israeli military forces in Syria, which is bordering on an act of war (or at the very least, an extremely unfriendly act) against the State of Israel. Quid pro Quo. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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and then
4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

It's also the first such attack in 40 years. The previous one was to destroy Saddam's nuclear reactor. 

It won't be the last, I'm sure.  Netanyahu has made it quite clear that the Iranian staging of missiles in Syria or any other location will be met with force.  That "highway" from Iran to the Mediterranean is going to be full of serious potholes.

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Sir Smoke aLot

It's good that there seems not to be any larger escalation. Border area is calm. As reported in Israeli press Netanyahu can't risk war at this stage of political campaign. 

Al Manar released video of Hezbollah attack on IDF armored vehicle and pictures of border area where there are no troop movements. Hopefully Israel has learned it's lesson and Nasrallah proved his words jet again. In his recent speech he says ''eye for eye'' and time for reaction to Israeli violations of Lebanon sovereignty has now came. He also made interesting remarks about Blue Line.

I see this topic has already became anti Iranian instead of Israeli and Lebanon issue. Keep calm, Iran hasn't attacked anything in Israel on Hezbollah's behalf jet :D

 

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Sir Smoke aLot
11 hours ago, Setton said:

I'll say it again, slowly. 

They

Are

Part 

Of 

The 

Iraqi 

State 

They are not foreign fighters. They are Iraqi citizens fighting for the Iraqi government (officially), on Iraqi soil. 

Attacking them is an attack on Iraq. 

It was also MSM covered story, just around the time when Kurds almost got attacked by Iraqi forces over Kirkuk. 

Every Iraqi militia was placed under central command and also soldiers salaries are paid for by Iraqi state. No amount of propaganda can change this fact. Regarding Iran, from day one of isis struggle Iran helped Iraq. No one was there the first day but Iran.

By doing so we now have situation in which Iran and Iraq have built strong relationship based on trust and economy (even USA gave green light to Iraq to continue buying Iranian oil but i suspect that the move was made because Iraq can not stop dealings with Iran and it would not stop on USA's request). As i said years ago Iraq is Iran 2 of sorts, all legacy of ''new Middle East'' policy from USA and Israel.

[edit] there are million statements from Iraq top officials who regard recent attacks as attack on Iraqi sovereignty and people - maybe they finally realized that they lost sovereignty when Saddam fell, now they gonna change that. Who can blame them?

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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Earl.Of.Trumps
7 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

 

Israel contends that the warehouses it bombed where being used by Iranians to trans-ship missiles and weapons into Syria.

This presents a much larger philosophical problem. A look at the "big picture".

I remember in the sixties when Viet Cong were infiltrating the South by going down through Cambodia and the US responded by blowing up Cambodia, a truly controversial aspect to the war. So Israel can claim the same defense of their war actions - that is, their actions are to prevent war weapons from ending up on their doorstep. But Israel must understand that these actions stoke the flames of hatred and war in those border countries. In other words, Israel's back is to the wall with only difficult choices to make and Israel chooses their actions as best option for their survival. The neighboring countries will surely do likewise. It's called "war". It could escalate beyond expectations. 

And in the bigger picture, it begs the age old question, why is Israel constantly surrounded by people that want to annihilate them?
Who exactly are these Cong-like Hamas, Hezbollah fighters et al, where do they come from, and what cause do they dedicate their lives to?

Israel knows they make citizen lives miserable in bordering countries - Lebanon, Syria, and in the past, Jordan and Egypt. This only emboldens people of the surrounding countries to simply ending the misery by all getting "the one" instead of all cowing down. The people will not knuckle under for Israel because Israel has no intentions to change their land usurping ways and their killings and to get out of occupied lands. Israel must be met with force, it is the only way to survive. Whether the fighters succeed or not will not ever stop them from trying.

"Creeping Communism" as we called it back in the day was greatly feared in America and in Western Europe. That is how the pols, citizens, and citizen fighters of border countries to Israel feel and Israel should accept culpability, as their actions have proved the fears to be real.

 

Israel will never have peace, even if they "survive".  They only have themselves to blame so I don't feel sorry for them at all.

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and then
45 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Israel knows they make citizen lives miserable in bordering countries - Lebanon, Syria, and in the past, Jordan and Egypt.

In what way, precisely?  And if this is true, why don't they have any pity on their Arab brothers after 7 decades and let them work and become citizens - if they so desire?

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Alchopwn
On 9/2/2019 at 5:00 AM, Piney said:

I want to see the whole Middle East take itself out and get used as a landfill for the rest of the world. :yes:

And if they are stupid enough to use nukes. Good riddance! 

Except for the nuclear fallout.  Everybody else gets to deal with that.  Nobody wins a nuclear war, not even the bystanders cheering "kill 'em all" from the sidelines.

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Alchopwn
5 minutes ago, and then said:

In what way, precisely?  And if this is true, why don't they have any pity on their Arab brothers after 7 decades and let them work and become citizens - if they so desire?

Yes, the alleged hospitality towards one's co-religionists when in trouble, as stated in the Quran, is  apparently nowhere to be found.  In fact the push seems to be to use this as a pretext for sending them into the lands of the Infidels.

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Piney
Just now, Alchopwn said:

Except for the nuclear fallout.  Everybody else gets to deal with that.  Nobody wins a nuclear war, not even the bystanders cheering "kill 'em all" from the sidelines.

No **** really? We're still consuming Strontium-90 in our milk products from the 50s and 60s.

But according to American Christians the war is needed to bring the Jesus Bunny.......oops......Santa Christ and he'll fix everything......and hide eggs.......... and leave gifts. :yes:

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Alchopwn
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

No **** really? We're still consuming Strontium-90 in our milk products from the 50s and 60s.

But according to American Christians the war is needed to bring the Jesus Bunny.......oops......Santa Christ and he'll fix everything......and hide eggs.......... and leave gifts. :yes:

Well heaven forfend I upset the long term plans of Santa Christ.

Edited by Alchopwn
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Piney
Just now, Alchopwn said:

Well heaven forfend I upset the long term plans of Santa Christ.

Even imaginary friends like their plans to run smooth. :)

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'Walt' E. Kurtz
On 9/1/2019 at 9:15 PM, Piney said:

When the Jews controlled Yemen, they killed every Christian they could get their hands on. Then the Muslims killed them. Then the Christians killed the Muslims. Then, during the 40s, the Muslims killed the Jews again. Then they all started killing each other again, Christians, Jews and Muslims. 

Every religion there has a fanatical religious obligation!  :blink:

Actually, when it comes to tossing nukes. I think India and Pakistan will be the first 2 whistleheads to make that mistake. 

Thats religion in a nut shell instead of living in love peace and harmony.

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Setton
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I'll say it again, slowly.

Iranian

Troops

Are

Part

of

the

IRAQI

State ? 

Yes. They are not Iranian. 

Quote

Israel contends that the warehouses it bombed where being used by Iranians to trans-ship missiles and weapons into Syria. One of the people killed was confirmed as being an Iranian. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/world/middleeast/israel-iraq-iran-airstrike.html

It's also the first such attack in 40 years. The previous one was to destroy Saddam's nuclear reactor. Now, THAT was most certainly an attack against the Iraqi state. But the most recent one - targeting an Iranian facility - is that really in the same category ? If it WAS an attack against the Iraqi state, then the Iraqi state was complicit in assisting the Iranians to transport weapons to anti-Israeli military forces in Syria, which is bordering on an act of war (or at the very least, an extremely unfriendly act) against the State of Israel. Quid pro Quo. 

Except that Israel started this on 19 July. Did they really think no one would retaliate? 

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Setton
17 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

That's a funny thing that they are Iraqi citizens and fighting for the Iraqi government now.  About a week ago you were saying they were Iranian forces completely loyal to Iran.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/329172-iran-has-seized-a-british-oil-tanker/page/3/#comments

Really curious on how stuff changes based on what you need.

Even then the one arms depot explosion that has been confirmed to of been done by Israel only had 3 dead, one of which was an Iranian and the other 2 not having their identity released by the Iraq government.

I'm sorry you can't comprehend the difference between what is officially true and what is practically true. 

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Setton
7 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

It was also MSM covered story, just around the time when Kurds almost got attacked by Iraqi forces over Kirkuk. 

Every Iraqi militia was placed under central command and also soldiers salaries are paid for by Iraqi state. No amount of propaganda can change this fact. Regarding Iran, from day one of isis struggle Iran helped Iraq. No one was there the first day but Iran.

By doing so we now have situation in which Iran and Iraq have built strong relationship based on trust and economy (even USA gave green light to Iraq to continue buying Iranian oil but i suspect that the move was made because Iraq can not stop dealings with Iran and it would not stop on USA's request). As i said years ago Iraq is Iran 2 of sorts, all legacy of ''new Middle East'' policy from USA and Israel.

[edit] there are million statements from Iraq top officials who regard recent attacks as attack on Iraqi sovereignty and people - maybe they finally realized that they lost sovereignty when Saddam fell, now they gonna change that. Who can blame them?

All true, but none of that plays well with the right wing nuts who think Israel is infallible. 

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and then
24 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Well heaven forfend I upset the long term plans of Santa Christ.

I wouldn't sweat it AL, there isn't a living soul here that could manage that.  I have a feeling that when He arrives He's going to change the long term plans of a lot of people who think they've got it all figured out - Christians included ;) 

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and then
5 minutes ago, Setton said:

I'm sorry you can't comprehend the difference between what is officially true and what is practically true. 

I expect he has a better grasp of the realities than you'd ever allow yourself to believe.  Hizballah is going to get the **** kicked out of it, along with most of southern Lebanon if they keep doing Iran's bidding.  Israel isn't going to ALLOW another militia in Iraq to become a forward base for the boys in Tehran.  Don't like it?  Enlist ;) 

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Setton
1 minute ago, and then said:

I expect he has a better grasp of the realities than you'd ever allow yourself to believe. 

Doubtful. 

Quote

Hizballah is going to get the **** kicked out of it, along with most of southern Lebanon if they keep doing Iran's bidding.  Israel isn't going to ALLOW another militia in Iraq to become a forward base for the boys in Tehran.  Don't like it?  Enlist ;) 

See this is the point you keep missing. 

I couldn't care less what happens to the Iranian regime, Shia militants, Hizballah or Israel. 

What I care about is that the US and Israel have knowingly put British lives in danger so that Netanyahu can win an election and dodge his corruption charges and so Trump can claim he's got a bigger dick than Obama. That's what comes of supporting the US, I guess. They hang you out to dry when loyalty is inconvenient. 

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DarkHunter
18 minutes ago, Setton said:

I'm sorry you can't comprehend the difference between what is officially true and what is practically true. 

Last week in that other thread you argued that the forces in question were Iranian and not Iraqi, now that it suits your argument they are Iraqi and not Iranian.  You cant have it both ways.  

But like always you base everything on what you believe and not on facts while avoiding the points you are wrong on and moving to personal attacks.  It is becoming abundantly clear you are pro Iran, seemingly wanting them to become the hegemony of the region, and anti anyone that opposes Iran.

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RoofGardener
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This presents a much larger philosophical problem. A look at the "big picture".

I remember in the sixties when Viet Cong were infiltrating the South by going down through Cambodia and the US responded by blowing up Cambodia, a truly controversial aspect to the war. So Israel can claim the same defense of their war actions - that is, their actions are to prevent war weapons from ending up on their doorstep. But Israel must understand that these actions stoke the flames of hatred and war in those border countries. In other words, Israel's back is to the wall with only difficult choices to make and Israel chooses their actions as best option for their survival. The neighboring countries will surely do likewise. It's called "war". It could escalate beyond expectations. 

And in the bigger picture, it begs the age old question, why is Israel constantly surrounded by people that want to annihilate them?
Who exactly are these Cong-like Hamas, Hezbollah fighters et al, where do they come from, and what cause do they dedicate their lives to?

Israel knows they make citizen lives miserable in bordering countries - Lebanon, Syria, and in the past, Jordan and Egypt. This only emboldens people of the surrounding countries to simply ending the misery by all getting "the one" instead of all cowing down. The people will not knuckle under for Israel because Israel has no intentions to change their land usurping ways and their killings and to get out of occupied lands. Israel must be met with force, it is the only way to survive. Whether the fighters succeed or not will not ever stop them from trying.

"Creeping Communism" as we called it back in the day was greatly feared in America and in Western Europe. That is how the pols, citizens, and citizen fighters of border countries to Israel feel and Israel should accept culpability, as their actions have proved the fears to be real.

 

Israel will never have peace, even if they "survive".  They only have themselves to blame so I don't feel sorry for them at all.

That's a ... complicated... response, @Earl.Of.Trumps

Firstly.. thanks for that. Secondly.. it will take me a day or so to ponder on it before I make my response. 

I mean... OBVIOUSLY you are wrong, and have a risibly large proboscis. 

But... I'm not yet sure HOW your are wrong, and how large your proboscis actually IS ! 

Umm.. unless I am wrong. Umm...... to be continued. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
6 hours ago, and then said:

In what way, precisely?  And if this is true, why don't they have any pity on their Arab brothers after 7 decades and let them work and become citizens - if they so desire?

I'm pretty sure, and then, these people don't like being bombed, eh? They live in fear all the time. That's what happens when you live in the shadow of a maniacal who has no regard for any human life except their own. 

And I assume you are talking about the Palestinians when you say  "Arab brothers"?  To put it in that context is racism, and then. They see themselves as different, societally. A Syrian would never want to be identified as Palestinian and vise versa.

As far as immigration policies go, I don't know, don't care. The problems that neighbor countries had with catering to an excess flow of immigrants has embittered the host countries as well as the Palestinians. The one thing that bonds them all is Israel is to blame for all their misery.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I mean... OBVIOUSLY you are wrong, and have a risibly large proboscis. 

But... I'm not yet sure HOW your are wrong, and how large your proboscis actually IS ! 

Thanks. I think. I didn't think it was so big that it showed :blush:

I wish the gals would say that to me :-*

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