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Sir Smoke aLot

New Israel-Lebanon war on horizon?

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Black Red Devil
8 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Last week in that other thread you argued that the forces in question were Iranian and not Iraqi, now that it suits your argument they are Iraqi and not Iranian.  You cant have it both ways.  

But like always you base everything on what you believe and not on facts while avoiding the points you are wrong on and moving to personal attacks.  It is becoming abundantly clear you are pro Iran, seemingly wanting them to become the hegemony of the region, and anti anyone that opposes Iran.

Yet the only ones playing the bullies in the region are Israel, the US and Saudi Arabia.  Israel has constantly invaded surrounding territories, the US has invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and being involved in numerous other wars in Somalia, Syria...and Saudi Arabia has invaded Yemen supported again, by US led allies in the region.  Let's also not forget that the most murderous group of terrorists that was ever created (ISIS) was supported and funded by Saudi Arabia.  Just to finish in crescendo let's also remember all the recent attempts by the dynamic duo Bolton/Pompeo to go to war against Iran for the most innocuous and feeble reasons but sure, let's fall into the deceiving trap of our western leaders and claim Iran to be the warmongers wanting to become the regional powerhouse.  The poor ba$tards can't even sell their oil, squashed by the US/SA petrodollar.

Maybe you and others here need to encrypt something into your signatures once and for all, I don't believe anyone here supports the Iranian regime, we just don't fall for the political twists our Govts plot for their own selfish agendas. 

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and then
3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'm pretty sure, and then, these people don't like being bombed, eh? They live in fear all the time. That's what happens when you live in the shadow of a maniacal who has no regard for any human life except their own. 

And I assume you are talking about the Palestinians when you say  "Arab brothers"?  To put it in that context is racism, and then. They see themselves as different, societally. A Syrian would never want to be identified as Palestinian and vise versa.

As far as immigration policies go, I don't know, don't care. The problems that neighbor countries had with catering to an excess flow of immigrants has embittered the host countries as well as the Palestinians. The one thing that bonds them all is Israel is to blame for all their misery.

So, Israel bad, everyone else innocent, remove the Jews and erryting be ayrie?  Except it just isn't going to happen without a huge amount of spilled blood and the dead?  They aren't going to care who won or why.  Arabs regularly refer to one another as brothers.  Those aren't my words, it comes from them.  And you're right about them not wanting to be called Palestinians.  It's a serious insult to be called a Palestinian or to be told to "go to Gaza".  

The bit about Israel bombing their neighbors is just wrong.  Demonstrably so in the context of a normal understanding of aggression.  You and others here consider ANY action against Israel to be their due and their responsibility so if they fight back, they are automatically in the wrong.  That isn't just biased, it's childish.  

Maybe when a few hundred thousand Palestinians and Syrians and Lebanese are dead in this "just" war you believe is necessary, the Palestinians will finally feel vindicated.  The truth will be something much different.  The neighboring Arab nations will parcel out that land among themselves and the Palestinians will keep fighting.  The difference is that once they no longer have Jews for enemies, the world wouldn't pee on them to put them out if they were on fire.  So much for that vaunted goal of "justice" for the Palestinians.

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Sir Smoke aLot
16 hours ago, Setton said:

All true, but none of that plays well with the right wing nuts who think Israel is infallible. 

I am afraid that such views are gaining popularity because organizations which promote belief that Israel is civilization and that Arabs are soulless barbarians have great media coverage and are also supported by some high ranking officials, speaking for America for example there are organizations like ACT! for America with figures like Brigitte Gabriel, or that guy Israel Ruben or Frank Gaffney with his Center for Security Policy.

There are no allegations for xenophobic nature of those organizations, at least not covered by media while, for example, we have media outcry and world wide coverage of absurd allegations against Muslim congresswoman.

What is similar between all of organizations like these two i mentioned? They share the same view on Islam, on Israel and on Iran, imagine. There is growing number of such organizations and i suspect that there are dozens of them, if not over 100. Especially growing in number since mid 2000's.

Quote from director of ACT!, taken from Wiki :

''The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It's the difference between good and evil [applause]... this is what we're witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no soul, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call "Allah" which is very different from the God we believe... [applause] because our God is the God of love.''

So basically, what is being done by those organizations (which are all closely affiliated or try to draw power from American Evangelists and from right wingers, which are targeted groups) is that they try to defame Islam in order to whitewash Israel and justify everything which Israel does because they are fighting against barbarians.

Movement has also gained strength from Trump and especially from his decision to ban Muslims entrance to the country.

This is small part of that which happens on regular basis. It's hard to fight this especially because people like Gaffney have been allowed media space to, in his case, mention sharia law over 1000 times in the last years. Iran is central point in their speeches, so is Israel but they all wear MAGA hats.

Maybe a bit off topic but most certainly this is important factor, especially in last years and also in Washington with great power of lobbying groups. Such movements are also noticeable in Europe but not much will one hear in media, other than see these mentioned groups represented as some saints with just goals.

 

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Sir Smoke aLot
8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

once and for all, I don't believe anyone here supports the Iranian regime

I support right of people to make their own decisions, regardless of nation or ethnicity. When Iranian history since 1950's is properly observed it's obvious that 1979 revolution was people's revolution. Is government in Iran guilty of something? Yes. As much as any other government in the world. I do not base my opinion over allegations and conspiracy theories and that is almost everything around which blame on Iranian regime is made - allegations and speculations.

There are no angels among politicians and it usually comes around who can play chess better and when two nations are hostile to one another then we can see all sorts of moves, propaganda but also some truths come to surface in the process.

Based on everything i do support Iran as it is. It seems that also Trump has no desire to change regime in Iran anymore. He might have realized that it's impossible feat, at least impossible to be induced from outside. He confirmed this in his speech at G-7 meeting.

Realistically, in case of Hezbollah, Iran supports them. That's not a secret. USA supports Israel, that is also not a secret. Why is American support to Israel believed or said to be just cause while Iranian support to Hezbollah is labeled as crime against humanity of sorts?

Two sides in conflict, supported by two other nations. Legacy of Cold War and other conflicts between strong and influential sovereigns. For third party to support those who are in war was seen as war crime before world wars and until mid of WW1.

---

More topic related it seems that there will be no new war and escalation. Some sources report how Nasrallah contacted (over mediators) Israel and urged them not to respond to recent attack because, basically, exchange ended in draw and was retaliation.

No update on crew from Israeli vehicle which got hit by two missiles.

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RoofGardener
8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yet the only ones playing the bullies in the region are Israel, the US and Saudi Arabia.  Israel has constantly invaded surrounding territories ....

It forced Jordan out of the West Bank, chased Egypt into the Sinai, and chased Syria halfway to Damascus. It has invaded Lebanon twice, I believe ? But withdrew once it had flattened the PLO and Hezbollah. It subsequently gave the Sinai back to Egypt. Jordan relinquished it's annexation of the West Bank. Israel IS still in the Golan Heights, but has repeatedly offered to return most of it to Syria in return for a peace deal. (Syria refused, and is still to this day technically at war with Israel). 

That's over a 60-year period. I think that the term "constantly invaded" is a bit .. well...  strong ? 

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Black Red Devil
8 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I support right of people to make their own decisions, regardless of nation or ethnicity. When Iranian history since 1950's is properly observed it's obvious that 1979 revolution was people's revolution. Is government in Iran guilty of something? Yes. As much as any other government in the world. I do not base my opinion over allegations and conspiracy theories and that is almost everything around which blame on Iranian regime is made - allegations and speculations.

There are no angels among politicians and it usually comes around who can play chess better and when two nations are hostile to one another then we can see all sorts of moves, propaganda but also some truths come to surface in the process.

Based on everything i do support Iran as it is. It seems that also Trump has no desire to change regime in Iran anymore. He might have realized that it's impossible feat, at least impossible to be induced from outside. He confirmed this in his speech at G-7 meeting.

Realistically, in case of Hezbollah, Iran supports them. That's not a secret. USA supports Israel, that is also not a secret. Why is American support to Israel believed or said to be just cause while Iranian support to Hezbollah is labeled as crime against humanity of sorts?

Two sides in conflict, supported by two other nations. Legacy of Cold War and other conflicts between strong and influential sovereigns. For third party to support those who are in war was seen as war crime before world wars and until mid of WW1.

---

More topic related it seems that there will be no new war and escalation. Some sources report how Nasrallah contacted (over mediators) Israel and urged them not to respond to recent attack because, basically, exchange ended in draw and was retaliation.

No update on crew from Israeli vehicle which got hit by two missiles.

Sorry buddy but I don't support a regime that kills it's own people because they're gay, among many other things  If you support that regime we're living on two different planets.  While I don't agree with western nations picking fights with them to cause a conflict, that doesn't mean I support their Govt which is made up of religious extremists who have an atrocious Human Rights record.  They are really no different than Saudi Arabia, they just follow a different sect.  Up to you if you want to support such a regime.  Western nations have their problems but they also have free Democratic elections, Civil Law and follow Human Rights which Iran doesn't.  Two different worlds and you should know better, living in Bosnia. 

You're also kidding yourself if you think the US couldn't invade Iran.  There would be quite a number of American casualties for sure, but, with the amount of fire power in comparison, American Generals would be smoking cigars in the Presidential Palace in Tehran within a couple of weeks.  The problem, as we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, would be occupying the place for a length of time.  I think you're confusing the US to Israel.  I agree Israel wouldn't be able to invade.

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Black Red Devil
14 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

It forced Jordan out of the West Bank, chased Egypt into the Sinai, and chased Syria halfway to Damascus. It has invaded Lebanon twice, I believe ? But withdrew once it had flattened the PLO and Hezbollah. It subsequently gave the Sinai back to Egypt. Jordan relinquished it's annexation of the West Bank. Israel IS still in the Golan Heights, but has repeatedly offered to return most of it to Syria in return for a peace deal. (Syria refused, and is still to this day technically at war with Israel). 

That's over a 60-year period. I think that the term "constantly invaded" is a bit .. well...  strong ? 

How many other countries in the world (except the US) have a similar record within 60 years?  Really, you believe Israel is going to return the Golan Hts?  I thought you had more political acumen than that.

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RoofGardener
19 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This presents a much larger philosophical problem. A look at the "big picture".

I remember in the sixties when Viet Cong were infiltrating the South by going down through Cambodia and the US responded by blowing up Cambodia, a truly controversial aspect to the war. So Israel can claim the same defense of their war actions - that is, their actions are to prevent war weapons from ending up on their doorstep. But Israel must understand that these actions stoke the flames of hatred and war in those border countries. In other words, Israel's back is to the wall with only difficult choices to make and Israel chooses their actions as best option for their survival. The neighboring countries will surely do likewise. It's called "war". It could escalate beyond expectations. 

And in the bigger picture, it begs the age old question, why is Israel constantly surrounded by people that want to annihilate them?
Who exactly are these Cong-like Hamas, Hezbollah fighters et al, where do they come from, and what cause do they dedicate their lives to?

Israel knows they make citizen lives miserable in bordering countries - Lebanon, Syria, and in the past, Jordan and Egypt. This only emboldens people of the surrounding countries to simply ending the misery by all getting "the one" instead of all cowing down. The people will not knuckle under for Israel because Israel has no intentions to change their land usurping ways and their killings and to get out of occupied lands. Israel must be met with force, it is the only way to survive. Whether the fighters succeed or not will not ever stop them from trying.

"Creeping Communism" as we called it back in the day was greatly feared in America and in Western Europe. That is how the pols, citizens, and citizen fighters of border countries to Israel feel and Israel should accept culpability, as their actions have proved the fears to be real.

 

Israel will never have peace, even if they "survive".  They only have themselves to blame so I don't feel sorry for them at all.

Hmm.. interesting thoughts, though I disagree with your conclusion about Israel never having peace. 

In regards to your question.. "...And in the bigger picture, it begs the age old question, why is Israel constantly surrounded by people that want to annihilate them?
Who exactly are these Cong-like Hamas, Hezbollah fighters et al, where do they come from, and what cause do they dedicate their lives to?

I can only quote you the HAMAS constitution. .. Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes...

They're religious nutcases Earl. There is little point trying to regard them in the light of logic, reason, or morality. 

I disagree that Israel makes life miserable for Jordanians and Egyptians. Most Jordanians and Egyptians have never even SEEN a jew. (they where all expelled in 1948).  Unless they where soldiers, and very old ones now, they have never suffered because of Israel's actions. In the case of Lebanon, it was the PLO who triggered the collapse of that society into sectarian madness, not Israel. As for Syria.. well.. it's a similar story to Egypt. 99.9% of the Syrian population has never even SEEN an Israeli, let along been made miserable by them. When it comes to misery, they rely on Assad to deliver it. 

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 minute ago, Black Red Devil said:

Sorry buddy but I don't support a regime that kills it's own people because they're gay, among many other things  If you support that regime we're living on two different planets.  While I don't agree with western nations picking fights with them to cause a conflict, that doesn't mean I support their Govt which is made up of religious extremists who have an atrocious Human Rights record.  They are really no different than Saudi Arabia, they just follow a different sect.  Up to you if you want to support such a regime.  Western nations have their problems but they also have free Democratic elections, Civil Law and follow Human Rights which Iran doesn't.  Two different worlds and you should know better, living in Bosnia. 

Not so long ago everyone was hostile to gay people. But the world is changing, somewhere that process is slow but it is happening. Is Iranian government made up of religious extremists? Maybe, but MAYBE there are fascists in every nation's administrations. Such allegations are too far reaching and mostly come around laws which are present all over Asia, Africa and ME. Many nations execute people for crimes, even democratic ones.

Crime act of doing that which is outlawed by law. In Iran there are many ''crimes'' but Iran today is not the same as Iran 40 or 60 years ago.

I do not base my opinion over rights of LGBT community nor will i ever try to impose my standards on others.

That is fascism and for that reason many people died and are dying and i felt that on my skin too, since you mention Bosnia.

I felt that because others tried to say that i can not exist simply because i am Muslim, in the hearth of Europe. Worldwide aristocracy (democratic saints which you speak of) were watching blood of my people for years, were talking BS and enjoying entertainment while people died because they were born. Is that value which Iran should adopt? Who are you or me or anyone to say how someone should lead their nations?

No one has moral high ground, sorry but no one. Think about that and let people live like they chose, not like you think is proper way to live. If someone doesn't wan't gay people in their countries it's their sovereign right if majority decide so, that is basis of democracy - majority decides.

7 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

You're also kidding yourself if you think the US couldn't invade Iran.  There would be quite a number of American casualties for sure, but, with the amount of fire power in comparison, American Generals would be smoking cigars in the Presidential Palace in Tehran within a couple of weeks.  The problem, as we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, would be occupying the place for a length of time.  I think you're confusing the US to Israel.  I agree Israel wouldn't be able to invade.

US could but it would have to sacrifice tens of thousands of troops. In order to make ground for ground invasion Iran would have to be leveled to the ground with bombs so there is question if such move would be in US interest.

To even question US military might is silly thing and i said that in numerous posts here, but sometimes even politicians realize if something is worth it or not. Israel is not even comparable with Iran, regardless of media tries to portrait it as such.

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RoofGardener
1 minute ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Not so long ago everyone was hostile to gay people. But the world is changing, somewhere that process is slow but it is happening. Is Iranian government made up of religious extremists? Maybe, but MAYBE there are fascists in every nation's administrations. Such allegations are too far reaching and mostly come around laws which are present all over Asia, Africa and ME. Many nations execute people for crimes, even democratic ones....

The Islamic stance on homosexuality is not 'religious extremism'. It is mainstream Islamic orthodoxy. It is supported by Al Azhar University, and all of the major schools of Islam. 

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RoofGardener
29 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

How many other countries in the world (except the US) have a similar record within 60 years?  Really, you believe Israel is going to return the Golan Hts?  I thought you had more political acumen than that.

Whyever not ? They returned the Sinai to Egypt, and Gaza to the Palestinian Authority ? Both had CONSIDERABLY more strategic value than the Golan Heights. 

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RoofGardener
46 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

How many other countries in the world (except the US) have a similar record within 60 years?  Really, you believe Israel is going to return the Golan Hts?  I thought you had more political acumen than that.

Actually, you'd be surprised. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1945–1989

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Sir Smoke aLot
28 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The Islamic stance on homosexuality is not 'religious extremism'. It is mainstream Islamic orthodoxy. It is supported by Al Azhar University, and all of the major schools of Islam. 

Every speculated thing is overruled by simply stating general position, shared by religions in which, as in Bible, ''thou shall not kill''. It's a sin to kill over another man's belief, whatever it is and Islam is strict about this.

While homosexuality is described as sin it's also important to note that ''to me my religion and to you yours'' which, in addition of overruling top law in religion - which forbids murder over personal choice (whatever it is) - is telling.

That is position for which consensus was reached about Islamic teachings - citing any individual source doesn't mean thing. There is only Islam. There is no Orthodox or any other form of Islam, only one Islam and it's follower is Muslim. Even Shia and Sunni ain't any difference in religion, mostly political with little flavor of other minor things.

I just mentioned organizations like ACT! etc. Your remark would be endorsed by them but laughed on by Islamic scholars ;) 

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RoofGardener
22 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Every speculated thing is overruled by simply stating general position, shared by religions in which, as in Bible, ''thou shall not kill''. It's a sin to kill over another man's belief, whatever it is and Islam is strict about this.

While homosexuality is described as sin it's also important to note that ''to me my religion and to you yours'' which, in addition of overruling top law in religion - which forbids murder over personal choice (whatever it is) - is telling.

That is position for which consensus was reached about Islamic teachings - citing any individual source doesn't mean thing. There is only Islam. There is no Orthodox or any other form of Islam, only one Islam and it's follower is Muslim. Even Shia and Sunni ain't any difference in religion, mostly political with little flavor of other minor things.

I just mentioned organizations like ACT! etc. Your remark would be endorsed by them but laughed on by Islamic scholars ;) 

Well, that is confusing. 

Your comments about ".. it's a sin to kill over another mans belief.." is incorrect under Islam. It is Islamic orthodoxy to kill nonbelievers. 

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and then
2 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

No update on crew from Israeli vehicle which got hit by two missiles.

https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/09/02/hezbollah-chief-nasrallah-knows-exactly-why-he-is-in-a-bunker-israeli-pm-netanyahu-says-after-border-violence/ 

Netanyahu says the only reason there wasn't massive retaliation- instead of "just" the 100 artillery shells is that no Israeli troops were injured. "Not even a scratch".  

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Earl.Of.Trumps
12 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

the US has invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and being involved in numerous other wars in Somalia, Syria...

Black and Red, I *wish* that's all the US has done to ME countries. What the US  and the UK did to Iran was so despicable my blood still boils thinking about it. Absolutely disgusting.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

Quote

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état (Persian: کودتای ۲۸ مرداد‎), was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project[5] or "Operation Ajax") and the United Kingdom (under the name "Operation Boot").[6][7][8][9] It was the first covert action of the United States to overthrow a foreign government during peacetime.[10]

And it was overthrowing an democratically elected leader, to boot!  Shame on America. This corrupt act lead to the US controlling Iran through a proxy leader and led directly to Iran's revolution. And yet Americans blame Iran?? Excuse me?  "Operation Ajax", like the intel were on some important mission to help the people of Iran, those bastids!! :angry:

The US insidiously had control over other ME countries, as well (Egypt, Libya)  that also led to revolutions of one kind or another. And this may very well shed light on why it is that Iranian Mullahs have called America the "big devil" and Israel the "little devil".

Commentary:  It is my personal opinion that the intentions of the US intel and government was to control these nations so as to make them Israel tolerant, as there is much evidence to this. **My opinion** 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
12 hours ago, and then said:

So, Israel bad, everyone else innocent, remove the Jews and erryting be ayrie? 

Israel has to stand accountable. After Israel's initial criminal actions to innocent people, all hell broke loose and as we all know, "All's fair in love and war". Israel started it. They are now at war.

12 hours ago, and then said:

Except it just isn't going to happen without a huge amount of spilled blood and the dead?

I agree. I can't help that, neither can you. The US and Israel will never stray from their intended course, and dare I say neither will the Muslims.

12 hours ago, and then said:

  They aren't going to care who won or why.  Arabs regularly refer to one another as brothers.  Those aren't my words, it comes from them.  And you're right about them not wanting to be called Palestinians.  It's a serious insult to be called a Palestinian or to be told to "go to Gaza".  

The bit about Israel bombing their neighbors is just wrong.  Demonstrably so in the context of a normal understanding of aggression.  You and others here consider ANY action against Israel to be their due and their responsibility so if they fight back, they are automatically in the wrong.  That isn't just biased, it's childish.  

I understand "self defense", and then.  Please understand, this is a war. When the US invaded Germany and Japanese islands, did we not expect the enemy to fight back? Of course. So, yes, I *expect* Israel to fight back. 

Right now, Israel thinks they own Palestine more so than what Germany thought they owned France but Germany still put up a ferocious fight trying to hold onto France! Many thousands of US troops were lost in the Normand invasion alone. I expect likewise for when Muslims go to liberate Palestine.

12 hours ago, and then said:

Maybe when a few hundred thousand Palestinians and Syrians and Lebanese are dead in this "just" war you believe is necessary, the Palestinians will finally feel vindicated.  The truth will be something much different.  The neighboring Arab nations will parcel out that land among themselves and the Palestinians will keep fighting.  The difference is that once they no longer have Jews for enemies, the world wouldn't pee on them to put them out if they were on fire.  So much for that vaunted goal of "justice" for the Palestinians.

You know, and then, I think these Muslim people want revenge so badly that they won't care if they live or die as long as they defeat the enemy and make sure they die as well. If I had to bet on it, I'd say it is going to happen some day. Maybe in the next 25 years.

My opinion.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

It forced Jordan out of the West Bank, chased Egypt into the Sinai, and chased Syria halfway to Damascus. It has invaded Lebanon twice, I believe ? But withdrew once it had flattened the PLO and Hezbollah. It subsequently gave the Sinai back to Egypt. Jordan relinquished it's annexation of the West Bank. Israel IS still in the Golan Heights, but has repeatedly offered to return most of it to Syria in return for a peace deal. (Syria refused, and is still to this day technically at war with Israel). 

That's over a 60-year period. I think that the term "constantly invaded" is a bit .. well...  strong ? 

you think that "constantly invaded is wrong?  I'm not so sure about that. Bombing an Iraq nuke plant should be on the list as well and bombing in Syria.

You say Israel withdrew from Lebanon. Highly disputed because Shebaa Farms is Lebanese territory and is one of the main points in Hezbollah's on going war with Israel. 

Over the last 60 years, the iron-fisted Israel has had many wars and spats. They always demand to get their way with their neighbors. Is it the many or is it the one? 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

They're religious nutcases Earl. There is little point trying to regard them in the light of logic, reason, or morality. 

LOL and immigrant Jews going into the very heart of the Muslim world and carving out a Jewish State under the guise of God's People fulfilling God's wishes -isn't religious nutcakery?

Please, RG. You don't recognize it as being as bad as ISIS building a Muslim caliphate because of prejudice. 

BTW, the big difference between the two is ISIS was operating in predominantly Muslim land. The Jews were NOT operating in predominantly Jewish land, they were in the middle of Muslim land.

Good luck with it.

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RoofGardener
19 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

LOL and immigrant Jews going into the very heart of the Muslim world and carving out a Jewish State under the guise of God's People fulfilling God's wishes -isn't religious nutcakery?

Please, RG. You don't recognize it as being as bad as ISIS building a Muslim caliphate because of prejudice. 

BTW, the big difference between the two is ISIS was operating in predominantly Muslim land. The Jews were NOT operating in predominantly Jewish land, they were in the middle of Muslim land.

Good luck with it.

They where not in predominantly Jewish lands ? Hmm... I guess that depends on how far back into history you want to go ? 

In more recent times; these where (approximately) Christian lands. Bethlehem ? Jerusalem ? Ring any bells from the Bible ? 

The muslims are invaders. I though "right of conquest" gave no legal rights on the land ? So why do you happily recognise it as "muslim land" ? 

In terms of "...ISIS building a caliphate", then.. in purely territorial grounds, I guess you are correct. However, you can't compare the behaviour of ISIS with the behaviour of the state of Israel. 

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RoofGardener
33 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

you think that "constantly invaded is wrong?  I'm not so sure about that. Bombing an Iraq nuke plant should be on the list as well and bombing in Syria.

You say Israel withdrew from Lebanon. Highly disputed because Shebaa Farms is Lebanese territory and is one of the main points in Hezbollah's on going war with Israel. 

Over the last 60 years, the iron-fisted Israel has had many wars and spats. They always demand to get their way with their neighbors. Is it the many or is it the one? 

Truly ? I thought it was Syrian territory ? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_farms#History

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and then
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

that they won't care if they live or die as long as they defeat the enemy and make sure they die as well. If I had to bet on it, I'd say it is going to happen some day.

Oh, it will happen, we have God's promise on that.  I realize most here think that is nonsense and that's okay but the scripture is very clear about who that land was deeded to and who will possess it eternally.  I guess we can just say I believe in God while you believe in human attempts at justice.  The Nations WILL defeat Israel in battle and millions will die but the remnant who survive will be restored to that land and those who took it from them will be eradicated.  Totally. Those who today call themselves Palestinians will cease to exist, totally.  Not my wish or my words.  That comes directly from the Creator.  While it may be easy to mock that which has not happened, I'd remind you that people who read the scripture (Ezekiel 37) mocked believers then who said the Jews would return to Zion and a nation would be born in a day.  They mocked until 15 May, 1948.

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Setton
10 minutes ago, and then said:

Oh, it will happen, we have God's promise on that.  I realize most here think that is nonsense and that's okay but the scripture is very clear about who that land was deeded to and who will possess it eternally.  I guess we can just say I believe in God while you believe in human attempts at justice.  The Nations WILL defeat Israel in battle and millions will die but the remnant who survive will be restored to that land and those who took it from them will be eradicated.  Totally. Those who today call themselves Palestinians will cease to exist, totally.  Not my wish or my words.  That comes directly from the Creator.  While it may be easy to mock that which has not happened, I'd remind you that people who read the scripture (Ezekiel 37) mocked believers then who said the Jews would return to Zion and a nation would be born in a day.  They mocked until 15 May, 1948.

Utterly, utterly cuckoo. 

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and then
3 minutes ago, Setton said:

Utterly, utterly cuckoo. 

I especially like this one: 

 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 

That means YOU, chuckles.  See you on the other side ;) 

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Setton
12 minutes ago, and then said:

I especially like this one: 

 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 

That means YOU, chuckles.  See you on the other side ;) 

I'll be all good then. 

Yet another thing you can't get your head around - I am Christian. I just don't worship your psychopathic fantasy.

I suppose its easier for you to support killing the innocent if you can imagine it's sanctioned by an even bigger psychopath. 

Edited by Setton
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