Is Trump trying to destroy the US economy ?

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

China is unable to project meaningful military might beyond its borders, its questionable if they can even project their entire military might to the western parts of China.  While China is expanding its ability to project power along with its logistical ability to support troops abroad they are still decades away from being able to do so.

That's why she's wary of Japan after the constitution change. 

[Phaeton80]

40 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Good.  Now salute the American flag, watch an episode of the Big Bang Theory and eat a cheese burger.

Youre describing last Thursday, well.. minus the salute thingy.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

China is unable to project meaningful military might beyond its borders, its questionable if they can even project their entire military might to the western parts of China.  While China is expanding its ability to project power along with its logistical ability to support troops abroad they are still decades away from being able to do so.

Turkey has a largish but also largely outdated military, for example Turkey got more tanks then most NATO members but most of their tanks are M48s and M60s.  Also the effectiveness of the Turkish military is questionable with how their limited military intervention within Syria has gone, they lost a surprising amount of I believe Leopard 2 tanks but might of been Leopard 1 tanks in a short period of time.

As for Russia they arent the USSR and they wont get involved while there is conflict still going on with Ukraine and in Syria.  A lot of the Russian military still uses outdated and poorly maintained equipment with a large part of its army being made up of conscript soldiers with barely any training.  But more importantly current Russian military doctrine tries to avoid fighting a multi-front war or a war across a wide front at all cost so it can focus its elite and well equipped units in as narrow a front as possible.

China, Russia: i believe that projecting power in the future will be proxy based and scramjet capable. Countries like China and Russia will use their huge land masses to house missiles of speeds many times what we currently have. Also computer virus and manipulation will become big business. 

Turkey: i agree with your assessment about its outdated military but the Turks have been dabbling with jihadis for quite some time and have become very good at using private shipping and their national airline to move insurgents and weapons to trouble spots. Libya comes to mind. There they have been moving Syrian insurgents, including the ISIS left overs to Libya. 

Conclusion: asymmetrical warfare will dominate any future battlefields. Strike and disrupt. Low cost wars and generally Crimea, Syria engagements. 

[Tatetopa]

On 9/4/2019 at 6:18 PM, Agent0range said:

I'm not sure what he is trying to do.  I want to see Trump's tax returns. because I want to see what his capital gains are.  The stock market drops over 2 days the worst as it has in 1 year.  Trump comes out and lies about talking with China about trade...and the stock market goes up.  I want to know if he tips his financial managers off about what he is going to say?  I

Well Agent, he has a history for that.  He would buy stocks, tout the company and then dump when other people bought and before they found out it was a loser.   You can look it up.  If he is doing it now, that is about the extreme of swampy globalist insider trading.  But heck if Trump is doing it, it must be OK.

[Tatetopa]

8 hours ago, OverSword said:

Well you're wrong, we're not going anywhere.  If you are right and you wan't to draw parallels to the fall of the Roman Empire please keep in mind what happened when Rome fell.  Murderous barbarian hordes took over the world and that quality of life provided by the existence and organization of Rome didn't return for 1000 years.

Of course China was going through its own golden age and didn't much miss Rome. It sure did make a hole in the Middle East and Europe too.

One area that this seeming parallel diverges is science and technology. When the Romans left Britain, the Celts were not building a lot of stone buildings, if any.  When the Saxons got there a few hundred years latter, their Great Halls were mostly logs, timber, mud and thatch. Rome not only had the greatest military power the best organization, and the biggest professional army, they were also leaders in science and technology.  Concrete, aqueducts, mining and metallurgy techniques, agriculture,writing, coinage, medicine, the list goes on.  

No longer true with the U.S.  we are giving any leads we had in all of those fields. People may miss us, but apart from economic woes, the world may not have to endure another Dark Age.  After all, everybody else has LED lights.

[Tatetopa]

8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I read that and wondered what he supposedly wants to "get back at china" for.  I didn't see any  explanation for that comment.

He raised tariffs and instead of folding, they saw his raise and raised him back.  

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

He raised tariffs and instead of folding, they saw his raise and raised him back.  

Not the second time. The impact on their economy stunned them. They need to export to us more than we need to export to them. As the chief consumer nation, we can import from some where else. As the major exporter, their options are limited. Trump isn't playing chess with them; more like a game of high stakes poker.

[Tatetopa]

24 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not the second time. The impact on their economy stunned them. They need to export to us more than we need to export to them. As the chief consumer nation, we can import from some where else. As the major exporter, their options are limited. Trump isn't playing chess with them; more like a game of high stakes poker.

Yes, a lot more like poker.  Xi has the advantage of not needing to be reelected. 

 

So far the tariffs have hurt them more and no doubt they are suffering.  However farmers are suffering and they vote.  The steel industry didn't get saved, and a lot of former steel workers are not happy about that.  Coal did not get saved..  Coal companies have played the old Trump trick of going bankrupt, walking away with the money and leaving the workers stiffed. Car companies are looking at some harder times, especially Ford. Our growth is slowing  and not making enough headway to pay for the tax cuts.  We can import from somewhere else, but it will cost more on some products or we would already be doing it.  We could make it in America and American  workers could take a pay cut or American consumers could buy less.

We are a strong economy, the strongest in the world no doubt  but it is that massive strength like a battleship that keeps us afloat, not the brilliance of the Captain.

[+Hammerclaw]

25 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes, a lot more like poker.  Xi has the advantage of not needing to be reelected. 

 

So far the tariffs have hurt them more and no doubt they are suffering.  However farmers are suffering and they vote.  The steel industry didn't get saved, and a lot of former steel workers are not happy about that.  Coal did not get saved..  Coal companies have played the old Trump trick of going bankrupt, walking away with the money and leaving the workers stiffed. Car companies are looking at some harder times, especially Ford. Our growth is slowing  and not making enough headway to pay for the tax cuts.  We can import from somewhere else, but it will cost more on some products or we would already be doing it.  We could make it in America and American  workers could take a pay cut or American consumers could buy less.

We are a strong economy, the strongest in the world no doubt  but it is that massive strength like a battleship that keeps us afloat, not the brilliance of the Captain.

I work in retail and know what the markup is on products. The impact on consumers will be negligible. The stock market has learned how to ride the Trump rollercoaster and is about set an all time new record. Trump isn't an isolationist, but America and Americans is his primary focus. He's a gamechanger, very disconcerting to a world market use to a compliant, passive and easily manipulated American market. Trump always ask for more than he's willing to settle for. One victory for a time and leave the other for another day. He's proven, time and again, he knows how to rock the boat without sinking the ship to shake out concessions. The Chinese understand what he's doing better than anyone else in the world. Both he and they understand, very well, the art of the deal.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[+OverSword]

@Tatetopa the Mongols trashed China before kicking Rome’s ass. 

[Space Commander Travis]

12 hours ago, OverSword said:

Well you're wrong, we're not going anywhere.  If you are right and you wan't to draw parallels to the fall of the Roman Empire please keep in mind what happened when Rome fell.  Murderous barbarian hordes took over the world and that quality of life provided by the existence and organization of Rome didn't return for 1000 years.

sorry, that was all because there wasn't yet America?  

[Space Commander Travis]

On 9/10/2019 at 4:31 PM, Hammerclaw said:

thermostat freedom? 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Dumbledore the Awesome

[Space Commander Travis]

13 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

Bullet trains could get most of them there as fast without burning all that fuel.

There's a lot more I could ask in this interesting discussion, but where do you envisage the electric coming from for these, assuming that the demand for domestic power is likely to continue to increase? Besides, there's a point where trains, no matter how fast, just reach a limit where they'd be effective. I mean, New York to Los Angeles; even at 300 km/h (the typical speed of high speed trains in Europe), will still take over 24 hours.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Dumbledore the Awesome

[RoofGardener]

On 9/4/2019 at 3:06 AM, Captain Risky said:

According to a new report, the president also wanted to shiv the U.S. economy in a characteristically self-defeating attempt to get back at China—a move that was only prevented by a chorus of staffers and CEOs begging him not to go through with it.

Hmm... I have grave doubts about the article. She is - traditionally - highly biased against President Trump. It seems like a grab-bag of rumours, unattributable sources, and outright editorial opinion. 

On 9/4/2019 at 9:30 AM, Gwynbleidd said:

Does China have a huge number of soldiers?

HUGE numbers. Fortunately, they are all a long way away, and over an ocean. PLUS.. they use 220V at 50Hz, so they couldn't charge up their batteries when they got to the USA. Oh.. and they use a different type of mains socket. 

[Gwynbleidd]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

HUGE numbers. Fortunately, they are all a long way away, and over an ocean. PLUS.. they use 220V at 50Hz, so they couldn't charge up their batteries when they got to the USA. Oh.. and they use a different type of mains socket. 

Wow, thanks Boris    We use 240V sockets here and we're south of China  

But thankfully, everyone forgets about us down here in the Southern Hemisphere...  

[RoofGardener]

8 minutes ago, Gwynbleidd said:

Wow, thanks Boris    We use 240V sockets here and we're south of China  

But thankfully, everyone forgets about us down here in the Southern Hemisphere...  

I don't think China would ever invade Australia. 

They don't like Barbecues ! 

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

There's a lot more I could ask in this interesting discussion, but where do you envisage the electric coming from for these, assuming that the demand for domestic power is likely to continue to increase? Besides, there's a point where trains, no matter how fast, just reach a limit where they'd be effective. I mean, New York to Los Angeles; even at 300 km/h (the typical speed of high speed trains in Europe), will still take over 24 hours.

Yeah.. and they'd REALLY struggle to cross the Atlantic Ocean !  

[RAyMO]

while the trade war is having an effect, is it the effect you expect

china GDP is growth is 6 percent are there abouts - not great by their standards but still significant growth. https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3018580/china-economy-reports-lowest-gdp-record-second-quarter-us

USA trade deficit may be coming down but with China its increasing. Mainly because of reduction in US exports.

U.S. exports to China have declined 18.2% in the first seven months of this year and imports are down 12.3%

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-trade/us-trade-deficit-shrinks-gap-with-china-remains-elevated-idUSKCN1VP1NT

Off course one way to get balanced trade is to kill off all your exports and refuse to allow anything in. Seems to be the unintentional direction of travel.

Edited September 14, 2019 by RAyMO

[+OverSword]

4 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

sorry, that was all because there wasn't yet America?  

Huh?

[brian100]

I'm a professional chart forecaster

 

Trump knows a recession is coming but the Fed policy is to react after the fact.   The falling dollar is coming, and its called a W bottom or a new lower low.

[Piney]

5 hours ago, OverSword said:

@Tatetopa the Mongols trashed China before kicking Rome’s ass. 

The Huns kicked Romes ass. The Mongols stopped short in Eastern Europe and decided it wasn't worth it. 

[+OverSword]

Right you are. So the Mongols trashed China and their neighbors had prison sex with Rome

[brian100]

This is what they see in the charts. This is not my more recent chart as the DOW has been moving to the highs its ever been.

[+Hammerclaw]

7 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I don't think China would ever invade Australia. 

They don't like Barbecues ! 

What would they invade them in, Sampans?

[Gromdor]

China and Australia are both in TPP.  China is also spending money for global infrastructure for shipping and trade (leading back to China):  https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/21/moodys-chinese-overseas-infrastructure-investment-growth-to-slow.html

Globalism is still plenty alive and well.  It's just that China will be in the driver's seat instead of the US.  Why would they ever need to invade a place when they can just buy it outright?  Or if that fails, just own the ports and industry?