psyche101 Posted September 9, 2019 #26 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, DieChecker said: Brain is the processor. Thoughts are output stimulated by input. Input is from the senses and previous thoughts. God inspired input usually either shows up and appears as a previous thought, remembered or not, or as a external stimulus which is not sensed by anyone else. I'm as experienced as any other 50 year old. What is amusing is watching my young 20 something in laws trying to get by in the world, poorly, while at the same time insisting their decisions are as good as any. This is a common failing of the young, and they often refuse advise of the more experienced our of... Arrogance? Stubbornness? Inexperience? What! Listen to an old person? What would they know about today's world, they didn't even have Internet. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted September 9, 2019 #27 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/8/2019 at 4:42 PM, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker As of yet I have seen only a few classifications, Opinion, claim, fact and B.S, you have disavowed two of your options what is you final choice? jmccr8 Brain and mind are interconnected but totally different things I thought the sources I provided explained this quite well. Otherwise i dont really understand what you are asking A human being can have a brain but no mind. The mind requires brain and body to power and host it but because it is an independent entity it can be transferred to other hosts Your thoughts and memories can be read /sen on machines. They can directly operate machines and computers They can be manipulated by machines/computers and eventually the y will be capable of being stored in machines and operating from within machines Also the y will be capable of being downloaded into another brain BECAUSE your mind is different to your brain Ie your mind can be transferred to another brain much more easily than your brain can be transferred to another body.( although this too will come, via science, one day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted September 9, 2019 #28 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/8/2019 at 5:23 PM, danydandan said: I think the trouble is someone read too much Halderman, Clarke, Heinlein, Matheson, K.Dick, Wells, Bester Ballard and Pohl, & has never actually experienced anything...... imo. True ive read all those, but have you read the modern science on this issue. quote Substantial mainstream research in related areas is being conducted in animal brain mapping and simulation, development of faster supercomputers, virtual reality, brain–computer interfaces, connectomics and information extraction from dynamically functioning brains.[4] According to supporters, many of the tools and ideas needed to achieve mind uploading already exist or are currently under active development; however, they will admit that others are, as yet, very speculative, but still in the realm of engineering possibility. Neuroscientist Randal Koene has formed a nonprofit organization called Carbon Copies to promote mind uploading research. Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: Copy-and-transfer or gradual replacement of neurons. In the case of the former method, mind uploading would be achieved by scanning and mappingthe salient features of a biological brain, and then by copying, transferring, and storing that information state into a computer system or another computational device. The biological brain may not survive the copying process. The simulated mind could be within a virtual reality or simulated world, supported by an anatomic 3D body simulation model. Alternatively the simulated mind could reside in a computer inside (or connected to) a (not necessarily humanoid) robot or a biological body.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading its not technically possible at present but there is nothing impossible about the basic physics. itis only a matter of technological development and computing power The real issues are likely to be theological, ethical, and philosophical, rather than technical. This next article is 3 years old and tremendous advances have been made in neurological science and the understanding of the nature of mind since then . https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35786771 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted September 9, 2019 #29 Share Posted September 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Brain and mind are interconnected but totally different things Hi Walker Thanks for the response, they are parts of what it means to be a human and if not all of those parts are there then they are not human. 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: I thought the sources I provided explained this quite well. Yes you did provide sources but that does not infer that I agree with the source or your interpretation of what those sources are saying. 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Otherwise i dont really understand what you are asking You said it was neither a claim or an opinion so I have to wonder what it was and if you are saying this about the source material or your interpretation of the material and was hoping that you would understand that I was asking for clarification and to clearly state what it was if it was neither a claim or opinion. 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: A human being can have a brain but no mind. What percentage of the global population has no mind and where is the data that supports this statement? 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: The mind requires brain and body to power and host it but because it is an independent entity it can be transferred to other hosts Your thoughts and memories can be read /sen on machines. They can directly operate machines and computers They can be manipulated by machines/computers and eventually the y will be capable of being stored in machines and operating from within machines Also the y will be capable of being downloaded into another brain BECAUSE your mind is different to your brain Ie your mind can be transferred to another brain much more easily than your brain can be transferred to another body.( although this too will come, via science, one day) Well, until this is actually evidenced I am putting this in the oh well bin as at this time it is still subjective and without proven results. Remember that I hold the position that the mind is a function of the brain that ceases to exist when one dies. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted September 9, 2019 #30 Share Posted September 9, 2019 No im skilled 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bed of chaos Posted September 9, 2019 #31 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 12:45 AM, Manwon Lender said: The question Will Due is Are You Experienced The Jimi Hendrix Experience If you can just get your mind together Then come on across to me We'll hold hands an' then we'll watch the sun rise from the bottom of the sea But first Are you experienced? Have you ever been experienced? Well, I have I know, I know You'll probably scream n' cry That your little world won't let you go But who in your measly little world are trying to prove that You're made out of gold and -a can't be sold So-er, are you experienced? Have you ever been experienced? Well, I have Ah, let me prove it to you Ending with a great guitar solo Jimi was definitely experienced Source: LyricFind He could've been suggesting mind altering drugs (lsd..or even heroin) Anyone remember 60's song? "if I really say it, the radio wont play it, unless I lay it between the lines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted September 11, 2019 #32 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) On 9/10/2019 at 2:43 AM, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker Thanks for the response, they are parts of what it means to be a human and if not all of those parts are there then they are not human. Yes you did provide sources but that does not infer that I agree with the source or your interpretation of what those sources are saying. You said it was neither a claim or an opinion so I have to wonder what it was and if you are saying this about the source material or your interpretation of the material and was hoping that you would understand that I was asking for clarification and to clearly state what it was if it was neither a claim or opinion. What percentage of the global population has no mind and where is the data that supports this statement? Well, until this is actually evidenced I am putting this in the oh well bin as at this time it is still subjective and without proven results. Remember that I hold the position that the mind is a function of the brain that ceases to exist when one dies. jmccr8 true Ok if you don't agree with the sources, then argue their points and explain to me why you think the y are wrong Basically, given the common definition of fact and knowledge, it is a fact and knowledge that mind is different to brain (and a separate but associated entity, like blood is difernt to a heart) and not an opinion or claim. A small percentage of humans are born with no mind. Others suffer injury or illness which eliminates their mind, and Alzheimers robs many older peole of mind . yet all these humans clearly have a brain. You can live without a mind but not without a brain People in a deep coma retain their brain but their mind ceases to exist unless, or until, the y come out of it I agree that mind is a function of the brain which ceases when we die, but pulse is the same ( a function of the heart) and dies when our heart dies.This doesn't mean that pulse, blood ,or heart, are the same i Edited September 11, 2019 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted September 11, 2019 #33 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: Ok if you don't agree with the sources, then argue their points and explain to me why you think the y are wrong Hi Walker I did not specify that they were wrong I also expressed that I may disagree with your interpretation of the source as well. 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: Basically, given the common definition of fact and knowledge, it is a fact and knowledge that mind is different to brain (and a separate but associated entity, like blood is difernt to a heart) and not an opinion or claim. How can it be a fact when it can not be determined what it actually is and that knowledge on the matter is subjective and open to interpretation. 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: A small percentage of humans are born with no mind. Others suffer injury or illness which eliminates their mind, and Alzheimers robs many older peole of mind . yet all these humans clearly have a brain. You can live without a mind but not without a brain People in a deep coma retain their brain but their mind ceases to exist unless, or until, the y come out of it Everything here that you are describing is due to physical impairment and no true measure can be made as to whether their mind exists or is of limited function due to impairment. 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: I agree that mind is a function of the brain which ceases when we die, but pulse is the same ( a function of the heart) and dies when our heart dies.This doesn't mean that pulse, blood ,or heart, are the same i The whole body is dependent on all of it's components to function period mind included even if it is impaired to some degree. No they are not the same parts but they are parts inter-dependent of a whole...Me,or rather the what is that makes me. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted September 11, 2019 #34 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker I did not specify that they were wrong I also expressed that I may disagree with your interpretation of the source as well. How can it be a fact when it can not be determined what it actually is and that knowledge on the matter is subjective and open to interpretation. Everything here that you are describing is due to physical impairment and no true measure can be made as to whether their mind exists or is of limited function due to impairment. The whole body is dependent on all of it's components to function period mind included even if it is impaired to some degree. No they are not the same parts but they are parts inter-dependent of a whole...Me,or rather the what is that makes me. jmccr8 It can and has been determined especially in the last 5 years or so. We now know a lot about mind and a lot about brain and this helps us determine the difference I dont think it is subjective or open to interpretation given the most modern understandings When we lacked knowledge there was less certainty and more opinion but as we develop knowledge and understanding especially in the sphere of AI, that uncertainty gives way to certainty The issue of impairment precisely illustrates the separation of brain and mind You can have a brain without mind, although so far you cant have a mind without a brain all animals have a brain but only humans have a mind ie a self ware, self directed, consciousness capable of abstract and symbolic thought and language, creativity etc etc. yep the y are interdependent (so far) but different The nature of mind means it can (so far theoretically) be relocated from one brain to another one, or to a machine It means that what is a part of one person's mind can be transferred, visually and verbally, to another person's mind (already achieved by science ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horta Posted September 24, 2019 #35 Share Posted September 24, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 2:32 PM, Will Due said: When it comes to the experience of thought, what do you think you're encountering and having practical contact with? Chemicals and neurons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted September 26, 2019 #36 Share Posted September 26, 2019 On 9/25/2019 at 2:37 AM, Horta said: Chemicals and neurons. Fish sheep and birds have these components.What do humans have which makes us different ? It is THAT quality we encounter when we think. The I inside us. Our own self aware consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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