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Will Due

Are You Experienced?

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psyche101
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Brain is the processor. Thoughts are output stimulated by input. Input is from the senses and previous thoughts.

God inspired input usually either shows up and appears as a previous thought, remembered or not, or as a external stimulus which is not sensed by anyone else. 

I'm as experienced as any other 50 year old. What is amusing is watching my young 20 something in laws trying to get by in the world, poorly, while at the same time insisting their decisions are as good as any. This is a common failing of the young, and they often refuse advise of the more experienced our of... Arrogance? Stubbornness? Inexperience?

What! 

Listen to an old person? 

What would they know about today's world, they didn't even have Internet. 

:lol:

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Mr Walker
On 9/8/2019 at 4:42 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

As of yet I have seen only a few classifications,

Opinion, claim, fact and B.S,  you have disavowed two of your options what is you final choice?

jmccr8

Brain and mind are interconnected but totally different things 

I thought the sources I provided explained this quite well.

Otherwise i dont really understand what you are asking

A human being can have a brain  but no mind.

   The mind requires brain  and body to power and host it but because it is an independent entity it can be transferred to  other hosts  Your thoughts and memories can be read /sen on machines.

They can directly operate machines and computers    They can be manipulated by machines/computers and eventually the y will be capable of being stored in machines and operating from  within machines Also the y will be capable of being downloaded into another brain BECAUSE your mind is different to your brain Ie your mind can be transferred to another brain much more easily than your brain can be transferred to another body.( although this too will come, via science, one day)  

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Mr Walker
On 9/8/2019 at 5:23 PM, danydandan said:

I think the trouble is someone read too much Halderman, Clarke, Heinlein, Matheson, K.Dick, Wells, Bester Ballard and Pohl, & has never actually experienced anything...... imo.

True ive read all those, but have you read the modern science on this issue. 

quote

Substantial mainstream research in related areas is being conducted in animal brain mapping and simulation, development of faster supercomputers, virtual reality, brain–computer interfaces, connectomics and information extraction from dynamically functioning brains.[4] According to supporters, many of the tools and ideas needed to achieve mind uploading already exist or are currently under active development; however, they will admit that others are, as yet, very speculative, but still in the realm of engineering possibility. Neuroscientist Randal Koene has formed a nonprofit organization called Carbon Copies to promote mind uploading research.

Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: Copy-and-transfer or gradual replacement of neurons. In the case of the former method, mind uploading would be achieved by scanning and mappingthe salient features of a biological brain, and then by copying, transferring, and storing that information state into a computer system or another computational device. The biological brain may not survive the copying process. The simulated mind could be within a virtual reality or simulated world, supported by an anatomic 3D body simulation model. Alternatively the simulated mind could reside in a computer inside (or connected to) a (not necessarily humanoid) robot or a biological body.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading

its not technically possible at present but there is nothing impossible about the basic physics. itis only a matter of technological development and computing power  

The real issues are likely to be theological, ethical, and philosophical, rather than technical.

This next article is 3 years old and tremendous advances have been made in neurological science and the understanding of the nature of mind since then .

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35786771

 

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jmccr8
5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Brain and mind are interconnected but totally different things 

Hi Walker

Thanks for the response, they are parts of what it means to be a human and if not all of those parts are there then they are not human.

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I thought the sources I provided explained this quite well.

Yes you did provide sources but that does not infer that I agree with the source or your interpretation of what those sources are saying.

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Otherwise i dont really understand what you are asking

You said it was neither a claim or an opinion so I have to wonder what it was and if you are saying this about the source material or your interpretation of the material and was hoping that you would understand that I was asking for clarification and to clearly state what it was if it was neither a claim or opinion.

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

A human being can have a brain  but no mind.

What percentage of the global population has no mind and where is the data that supports this statement?

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 The mind requires brain  and body to power and host it but because it is an independent entity it can be transferred to  other hosts  Your thoughts and memories can be read /sen on machines.

They can directly operate machines and computers    They can be manipulated by machines/computers and eventually the y will be capable of being stored in machines and operating from  within machines Also the y will be capable of being downloaded into another brain BECAUSE your mind is different to your brain Ie your mind can be transferred to another brain much more easily than your brain can be transferred to another body.( although this too will come, via science, one day)  

Well, until this is actually evidenced I am putting this in the oh well bin as at this time it is still subjective and without proven results. Remember that I hold the position that the mind is a function of the brain that ceases to exist when one dies.

jmccr8

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'Walt' E. Kurtz

No im skilled

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Bed of chaos
On 9/5/2019 at 12:45 AM, Manwon Lender said:
The question Will Due is 
Are You Experienced
If you can just get your mind together
Then come on across to me
We'll hold hands an' then we'll watch the sun rise from the bottom of the sea
But first
Are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have
I know, I know
You'll probably scream n' cry
That your little world won't let you go
But who in your measly little world are trying to prove that
You're made out of gold and -a can't be sold
So-er, are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have
Ah, let me prove it to you
Ending with a great guitar solo
Jimi was definitely experienced
 
Source: LyricFind

He could've been suggesting mind altering drugs (lsd..or even heroin) Anyone remember 60's song?  "if I really say it, the radio wont play it, unless I lay it between the lines".

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Mr Walker
On 9/10/2019 at 2:43 AM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Thanks for the response, they are parts of what it means to be a human and if not all of those parts are there then they are not human.

Yes you did provide sources but that does not infer that I agree with the source or your interpretation of what those sources are saying.

You said it was neither a claim or an opinion so I have to wonder what it was and if you are saying this about the source material or your interpretation of the material and was hoping that you would understand that I was asking for clarification and to clearly state what it was if it was neither a claim or opinion.

What percentage of the global population has no mind and where is the data that supports this statement?

Well, until this is actually evidenced I am putting this in the oh well bin as at this time it is still subjective and without proven results. Remember that I hold the position that the mind is a function of the brain that ceases to exist when one dies.

jmccr8

 true

Ok if you don't agree with the sources, then argue their points  and explain to me why you think the y are wrong 

Basically, given the common definition of fact and knowledge, it is a fact and knowledge that mind is different to brain (and a separate but  associated entity, like blood is difernt to a heart)   and not an opinion or claim.

A small  percentage of humans are born with no mind. Others suffer injury or illness which eliminates  their mind, and Alzheimers  robs many older peole of mind . yet all these humans clearly have a brain. You can live without a mind but not without a brain   People in a deep coma retain their brain but their mind ceases to exist unless, or until, the y come out of it 

I agree that mind is a function of the brain which ceases when we die,  but pulse is the same ( a function of the heart)  and dies when our heart dies.This  doesn't mean that pulse, blood ,or heart, are the same i 

Edited by Mr Walker

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Ok if you don't agree with the sources, then argue their points  and explain to me why you think the y are wrong 

Hi Walker

I did not specify that they were wrong I also expressed that I may disagree with your interpretation of the source as well.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Basically, given the common definition of fact and knowledge, it is a fact and knowledge that mind is different to brain (and a separate but  associated entity, like blood is difernt to a heart)   and not an opinion or claim.

How can it be a fact when it can not be determined what it actually is and that knowledge on the matter is subjective and open to interpretation.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

A small  percentage of humans are born with no mind. Others suffer injury or illness which eliminates  their mind, and Alzheimers  robs many older peole of mind . yet all these humans clearly have a brain. You can live without a mind but not without a brain   People in a deep coma retain their brain but their mind ceases to exist unless, or until, the y come out of it 

Everything here that you are describing is due to physical impairment and no true measure can be made as to whether their mind exists or is of limited function due to impairment.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I agree that mind is a function of the brain which ceases when we die,  but pulse is the same ( a function of the heart)  and dies when our heart dies.This  doesn't mean that pulse, blood ,or heart, are the same i 

The whole body is dependent on all of it's components to function period mind included even if it is impaired to some degree. No they are not the same parts but they are parts inter-dependent of a whole...Me,or rather the what is that makes me.

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I did not specify that they were wrong I also expressed that I may disagree with your interpretation of the source as well.

How can it be a fact when it can not be determined what it actually is and that knowledge on the matter is subjective and open to interpretation.

Everything here that you are describing is due to physical impairment and no true measure can be made as to whether their mind exists or is of limited function due to impairment.

The whole body is dependent on all of it's components to function period mind included even if it is impaired to some degree. No they are not the same parts but they are parts inter-dependent of a whole...Me,or rather the what is that makes me.

jmccr8

It can and has been determined especially in the last 5 years or so. We now know a lot about mind and a lot about brain and this helps us  determine the difference  

I dont think it is subjective or open to interpretation given the most modern understandings  When we lacked knowledge there was less certainty and more opinion but as we develop knowledge and understanding especially in the sphere of AI, that uncertainty gives way to certainty 

The issue of impairment precisely illustrates the separation of brain and mind You can have a brain without mind,  although so far you cant have a mind without a brain all animals have a brain but only humans have a mind    ie a self ware, self directed, consciousness capable of abstract and symbolic thought and language, creativity etc etc.  

yep the y are interdependent (so far) but different  The nature of mind means it can (so far theoretically)  be relocated from  one brain to another one, or to a machine It means that what is a part of one person's mind can be transferred, visually and verbally, to another person's mind  (already achieved by science )   

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Horta
On 9/5/2019 at 2:32 PM, Will Due said:

 

 

When it comes to the experience of thought, what do you think you're encountering and having practical contact with?

 

 

Chemicals and neurons.

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Mr Walker
On 9/25/2019 at 2:37 AM, Horta said:

Chemicals and neurons.

Fish sheep and birds have these components.What do humans have which makes us different ?

  It is THAT quality  we encounter when we think. 

The I inside us.

Our own self  aware consciousness.  

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