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Hazzard

Best evidence for ET

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stereologist
10 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

I have stated why time and again in this thread. There is no way that "just people" freak out over the sight of airplanes any more than they would seeing a bus or a train. They all see these things regularly. 

But it is not just that they were surprised by the sighting, they actually called the police. Really!? :hmm:  What the hey!

As I pointed out, there are seven large Air Force bases in Arizona. All have minimum 5,000 troops. If you want to believe that people in Arizona lead such sheltered lives that they don't know how to behave upon viewing an aircraft, be my guest!  But then you may have to justify why their behavior upon seeing crafts in the sky was never like this before, nor has it been like this since just this one day.

When I hear a woman who was in her back yard with her kids say upon seeing one of these low flying crafts, "it looked like a shopping mall", I figure she is not seeing an aircraft with wings etc. That's my opinion.

People saw all kinds of strange things. Different colored orbs. V shaped crafts. lots of stuff. Things that couldn't possibly be aircrafts as we know them. And our aircrafts cannot go into Mexico, so now you have to come up with a different reason why the people of Somona freaked out because they did not see American aircrafts, and the Mexican government did not  issue any angry statements in the media for same reason.

Too many people to ignore, too many to just talk down and say they were mixed up. They saw something other than "planes".

Please show that anyone freaked out. I don't believe that happened. I see no reports of any panic or anything that you are suggesting happened.

Please show who called the police. I don't see any talk about that. As far as I can tell that did not happen.

So people saw planes in formation at night and wondered what that was about and you think that is unusual?  No panic. No police calls as far as I have been able to determine. Some confusion about seeing planes in formation at night is about all I can find.

People imagined all sorts of strange things and the witnesses were all over the place with their ideas. That shows it was their imaginations and nothing more. People herd planes. The report from Henderson describes a loud sound as do people in Prescott. People saw planes through telescopes and even identified that the wings were squarish.

The lights never went over the border. You are making that up. It's not true and tossing out that dead horse time and time again shows you have nothing. No one in Sonora freaked out. NO one in Arizona freaked out. No one in Nevada freaked out. That's just a ridiculous falsehood. That's like almost everything you are posting. It's not truthful.

People heard planes. People saw planes. The video shows the true number of lights and that the lights were not part of a large craft.

Plain and simple event 1 was planes.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

I'm wondering where Earl.Of.Trumps is getting this idea that the police were called. It would be helpful if he gave a link to his source of information.

If you want research being done, why not kick start the old Phoenix Lights thread. It is back in view as someone posted in it recently.
This thread is just a "best evidence" thread. I really don't feel like doing all that leg work for Phoenix Lights when that should be  done in its own thread.

 

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stereologist
10 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I am most going to listen to the thousands that gave their testimony to Dr. Lynne Kitei who says there were 10,000 witnesses, many that she interviewed. How many people in this UM forum interviewed ONE such witness.

I listen to the Governor of Arizona, Fife Symington who said that HE SAW THE SHIP with his own eyes and he said it was "otherworldly". 

That's who I listen to.

Well Lynne Kitei is a liar. There were no thousands of witnesses. There were hundreds of witnesses. You are talking about the kook that thinks the lights 70 miles away were outside her residence talking to her. She's a loon. She is into crop circles and other fringe malarkey. She didn't even see event 1.

Let's find out the correct range.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/climate-strike-student-global-warming-united-nations-arizona-phoenix-11360539

Quote

Hundreds of people reported what they saw passing slowly in the sky.

So you want to use Fife Symington as your appeal to authority? He is a convicted felon. He was convicted of bank fraud.

So your appeals to authority are a kook and a criminal. Good choices.

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stereologist

What is interesting is that in a response to questions about what are you going to use as sources there was a complete avoidance of the issues and evidence.

 

You are confusing events 1 and 2. The military aircraft are associated with the flares, not the planes that flew over Phoenix.

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that stated 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or a different number of lights?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated silent or they heard the sound of planes?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The orange, red, green, yellow or some other color of lights?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that stated high or the ones that stated low?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated boomerang, triangle, semicircle or some other shape?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated stars passed between the lights or the ones that stated lights were blacked out?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that used telescopes and binoculars and saw planes?

Witnesses heard planes, saw planes, and got a video. 

It's planes for event 1.

 

There seems to be a continued mixing of events 1 and 2. There seems to be no effort to accept that the witnesses are all over the place and there is no consensus.

There is no rejection at all of the fact that it was planes.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
5 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Please show that anyone freaked out. I don't believe that happened. I see no reports of any panic or anything that you are suggesting happened.

Please show who called the police. I don't see any talk about that. As far as I can tell that did not happen.

So people saw planes in formation at night and wondered what that was about and you think that is unusual?  No panic. No police calls as far as I have been able to determine. Some confusion about seeing planes in formation at night is about all I can find.

People imagined all sorts of strange things and the witnesses were all over the place with their ideas. That shows it was their imaginations and nothing more. People herd planes. The report from Henderson describes a loud sound as do people in Prescott. People saw planes through telescopes and even identified that the wings were squarish.

The lights never went over the border. You are making that up. It's not true and tossing out that dead horse time and time again shows you have nothing. No one in Sonora freaked out. NO one in Arizona freaked out. No one in Nevada freaked out. That's just a ridiculous falsehood. That's like almost everything you are posting. It's not truthful.

People heard planes. People saw planes. The video shows the true number of lights and that the lights were not part of a large craft.

Plain and simple event 1 was planes.

Lynne Kitei said "thousands" contacted her. And why??? because the government was not doing a damn thing about it. And yet these people were quite concerned. You should read what she has to say before throwing her under the bus. She was proactive - you were not.

The reason why Lynne Kitei and her husband were all set to film that night is because Phoenix had many UFO sightings in the days and weeks leading up to that night in 1997. Phoenix lights was a night of real activity but it was not the only night of the UFO wave they had.

Planes? flares? no way. Not form what I heard.

 

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stereologist
7 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

If you want research being done, why not kick start the old Phoenix Lights thread. It is back in view as someone posted in it recently.
This thread is just a "best evidence" thread. I really don't feel like doing all that leg work for Phoenix Lights when that should be  done in its own thread.

 

Maybe you can take the time to learn about the Phoenix Lights and take the time to support what appear to be outright fabrications:

  • anyone freaking out
  • people calling the police in any numbers
  • lights crossed into Mexican airspace
  • that there is any consensus by the witnesses

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
4 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Well Lynne Kitei is a liar. 

Thanks for the segue. I needed a break. this 20 posts an hour crap with you is getting to me.

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stereologist
Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Lynne Kitei said "thousands" contacted her. And why??? because the government was not doing a damn thing about it. And yet these people were quite concerned. You should read what she has to say before throwing her under the bus. She was proactive - you were not.

The reason why Lynne Kitei and her husband were all set to film that night is because Phoenix had many UFO sightings in the days and weeks leading up to that night in 1997. Phoenix lights was a night of real activity but it was not the only night of the UFO wave they had.

Planes? flares? no way. Not form what I heard.

 

That's false right there. Lynne Kitei faked the existence of witnesses because she is a kook. 

Why? Because she is a kook. No other reason.

You are now confusing Kitei with Barwood. Get the players right.

Kitei filmed the flares over the Barry Goldwater range. They were 70 miles away yet she insists the lights were close to her house and talked to her. She's a kook.

Event 1 planes that were seen, heard, and filmed.

Event 2 flares that were traingulated to the spot where the Guard was dropping flares.

End of story. 

You might have decided that the AlwaysAliens crowd is more to your liking and decided to avoid the evidence which is clear that the events were planes and flares.

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stereologist
3 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Thanks for the segue. I needed a break. this 20 posts an hour crap with you is getting to me.

Take a break and support what certainly looks like untruthful statements:

  • People freaked out - you've claimed this multiple times. Never happened did it?
  • Many people called the police - you've claimed this multiple times. Never happened did it?
  • Lights cross the border - you've claimed this multiple times. Never happened did it?

Please show me I'm wrong.

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the13bats
18 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Not form what I heard.

now theres an iron clad reason to take something as fact.

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stereologist

I suggest that this best evidence character Lynne Kitei is a kook.

Here is what she says in an interview:

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/20-years-later-what-were-the-phoenix-lights/422251905

Quote

"How can flares that cannot keep a formation, traverse the entire state and beyond for hours in a rock-solid V?" Kitei asked.

This kook still has not figured out that there were two events. She can't separate out the V with the flares. 

Her is another statement from this kook

Quote

"It was a mile-wide formation of these orbs," she said, gesturing to downtown Phoenix from a spot near Piestewa Peak, "and I caught them head-on turning into a V."

She has videotape and it does NOT show them turning into a Vee as she claimed she saw happen. It shows a string of lights, not a V. The string does not turn into another shape.

This is a kook in which the evidence they present, the videotape, directly contradicts the statements they make. She is a kook.

Kitei is such a loon that she claims she was watching them before everyone else.

https://skepticalinquirer.org/2016/11/the_phoenix_lights_become_an_incident/

Quote

On her website ThePhoenixLights.net (which claims to promote “Evolution to a New Consciousness,” whatever that means), she claims she was watching the Phoenix Lights two years before everyone else, and that her research proves “we are not alone.” By some complicated analysis, she claims to have proven that the objects photographed could not have been flares, although I haven’t run across anyone who understands what she’s saying. I heard her speak at the 2012 International UFO Congress near Phoenix, and some of her photos of UFOs appeared to me to be lights on the ground.

A typical loony discussion was done by Kitei and others here.

She claims that it took 3 months for the story to hit the presses. Maybe she was off on a crazy bender because the USA Today article was dated two days later.

 

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the13bats
6 hours ago, Saru said:

On the subject of the Phoenix Lights, I thought the generally accepted explanation was that they were military flares ?

two events one was flares the other small planes, a telescope buff saw them, but the two events got all mixed up together and it caused and as you see in this thread still causes confusion. 

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stereologist

I've been going through some Lynne "the kook" Kitei's talks and I think this is where some of the false ideas are coming from.

The kook claimed in a speech that firemen were called out. That's a kook making things up.

The 10,000 number is a number she made up as a guess. It is not a real number and certainly not based on anything but a kook's hyperbole.

Kitei claims to have call the airport, but the airport officials were not contacted till well after the time they discard old radar data. Seems the kook did not mention that.

The kook also has claimed that the reason people saw lights that night is that the lights came to see her. You heard she claims she is the reason the lights were there. That makes her a wacko as well.

She also claims to be telepathic. She claims to have out of body experiences.

BTW, how many people did she actually interview a few hundred. So let's say she interviewed 500 people. She was able to get them in and out and get the facts he needed in 30 minutes. That means 250 hours of interviews. If she did nothing but interview people then at 40 hours a week it means she spent 6 1/4 weeks doing nothing but interviews. Is that plausible? Maybe the hundreds is 100 people and for 5 minutes a person she got all she needed to put together her book.

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the13bats

Panic? no, my take on it, a few of the locals gov cling on constitute types who werent feeling important or special enough wanted to stir a bit of furor shaking their fists about "those lights" and what are you doing about the invasion of "Aliens/UFOs" gave mayor Symington grief so he went for a bit of fun,

hqdefault(3).jpg.0242a1906fcea0918ee54dbec5f12902.jpg

and lead one of his people out in a costume in handcuffs saying they got the culprit, it was meant as both a light hearted joke and a "take a chill pill" wake up poke to the couple loud mouths acting all loony fruity, so they freak out even more on it acting like he was some kind of devil hiding ET and making them look stupid, no, they did that to themselves, and this wasnt but a few people.

as it turned out Symington saw some of the lights himself but didnt make any ludicrous, ridiculous jump that UFO, something in the sky and we dont know what it is so it must be aliens invading.

so no, there wasnt any "panic".

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the13bats
23 minutes ago, stereologist said:

She also claims to be telepathic

when people make claims of super powers outlandish stories that of course is convenient for them that cant be proven i cant help but think either they are full of bull, looney or both, it kills all integrity or credibilty the person might have had.

i guess thats just a flaw in me.

 

Edited by the13bats
clearify
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MrBene

To be honest there's nothing really left that can qualify as "best evidence". What we have is just a bunch of clips, with weird context, probably some stories, nothing much than that. Much of the stuff around has been explained, debunked or put out there for scrutiny without much relevance. I believe the UFO field has went quite dry lately, lot of cgi, explained stuff, bunch of looneys making money out of it. To be honest, there isn't much to discuss anymore besides the whole believer vs skeptic thing.

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psyche101
4 hours ago, the13bats said:

Panic? no, my take on it, a few of the locals gov cling on constitute types who werent feeling important or special enough wanted to stir a bit of furor shaking their fists about "those lights" and what are you doing about the invasion of "Aliens/UFOs" gave mayor Symington grief so he went for a bit of fun,

hqdefault(3).jpg.0242a1906fcea0918ee54dbec5f12902.jpg

and lead one of his people out in a costume in handcuffs saying they got the culprit, it was meant as both a light hearted joke and a "take a chill pill" wake up poke to the couple loud mouths acting all loony fruity, so they freak out even more on it acting like he was some kind of devil hiding ET and making them look stupid, no, they did that to themselves, and this wasnt but a few people.

as it turned out Symington saw some of the lights himself but didnt make any ludicrous, ridiculous jump that UFO, something in the sky and we dont know what it is so it must be aliens invading.

so no, there wasnt any "panic".

I did not realize that former Arizona governor Fife Symington's belated confession that he, too, saw the big V-shaped UFO of the Phoenix lights, ten years after the fact, was made while Fox was interviewing him. Later I had an opportunity to talk to Fox, and told him that there is good reason to believe that Symington is lying about his me-too sighting. (Symington was, after all, convicted on seven felony counts of fraud, overturned on a technicality, then pardoned by the outgoing President Clinton.) The first UFO event of the evening, the V-shaped lights (actually five Air National Guard A-10s flying in formation from Las Vegas to Tucson; Tim Printy has more about this) occurred from just before 8:00 PM until 8:45. The second event, that Fox agreed was a flare drop from different Air National Guard planes, began at 10:00 and lasted at most ten minutes. I reminded Fox that Symington claimed to have seen news coverage of the lights on TV, then went outside to look. He says he walked down to where the news crews had been filming the lights (the flare drop), and then saw the V-shape fly over, big and mysterious. However, there was no news coverage of the sightings before the planes landed about 8:45, and there could have been nobody filming the "lights" prior to 10:00, because the flares had not yet been dropped. Therefore Symington's claimed sighting occurred after 10:00, probably well after, and hence is an obvious fabrication. "No, he saw it at 8:20. It was 8:20," Fox insisted. "How could he have seen news coverage of this by 8:20?", I asked. "Maybe he heard chatter on the radio or something," Fox said. "How could there have been news crews filming this by 8:20?", I asked? Fox was having no more of this conversation. "Why would Symington have made this up?", another man asked me. "Because of the news coverage it gave him, and feature stories in which he talks about his new business ventures. It would have cost a lot to buy the publicity he got for free by claiming a UFO sighting."

 

https://badufos.blogspot.com/2013/03/?m=1

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Hazzard

Not at all evidence, but I remember reading about this one a couple of years ago here at UM.... an interesting story, and I wonder what actually happened?

In 1966 over 300 children and staff from a Melbourne school reportedly witnessed multiple UFOs silently flying through the sky before landing in a nearby field.

 

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/nypost.com/2018/08/07/hundreds-of-school-kids-who-saw-a-ufo-and-their-story-was-ignored-for-50-years/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15693808544640&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=Från %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2018%2F08%2F07%2Fhundreds-of-school-kids-who-saw-a-ufo-and-their-story-was-ignored-for-50-years%2F

Edited by Hazzard
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the13bats
31 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I did not realize that former Arizona governor Fife Symington's belated confession that he, too, ....

https://badufos.blogspot.com/2013/03/?m=1


The one i saw was low budget, ill try to hunt the name, fife gets all set back like, oh good this again, and tried to joke he hadnt been put on the spot on tv in a while, they play a tape of some lady angry he did the arrested alien gag and he says something to the effect he thought it fun at the time in hindsite might not do it again and he saw the lights too, very little details,

the version i saw only talked of the ufos, no shameless biz plugs.

 

12 minutes ago, Hazzard said:

Not at all evidence, but I remember reading about this one a couple of years ago here at UM.... an interesting story, and I wonder what actually happened?

In 1966 over 300 children and staff from a Melbourne school reportedly witnessed multiple UFOs silently flying through the sky before landing in a nearby field.

 

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/nypost.com/2018/08/07/hundreds-of-school-kids-who-saw-a-ufo-and-their-story-was-ignored-for-50-years/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15693808544640&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=Från %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2018%2F08%2F07%2Fhundreds-of-school-kids-who-saw-a-ufo-and-their-story-was-ignored-for-50-years%2F

I found it intriguging but just another story, and i do not subscribe a high level of integrity or credibilty to McDonalds stuff, he is an avid true believer claiming to have been anducted after interviewing an alleged abductee, but he did say his friend hynik wasnt truthful just to keep working for bluebook.

ive read conflicting versions of the Melbourne case, some gave me the impression it was a blimp other tellings get me to dust off my tin foil hat and consider secret gov project,

in the end i believe someone saw something mundane that they didnt know what it was and the rest wrote itself from attention seekers embellishment

 

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psyche101
28 minutes ago, Hazzard said:

Not at all evidence, but I remember reading about this one a couple of years ago here at UM.... an interesting story, and I wonder what actually happened?

In 1966 over 300 children and staff from a Melbourne school reportedly witnessed multiple UFOs silently flying through the sky before landing in a nearby field.

 

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/nypost.com/2018/08/07/hundreds-of-school-kids-who-saw-a-ufo-and-their-story-was-ignored-for-50-years/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15693808544640&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=Från %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2018%2F08%2F07%2Fhundreds-of-school-kids-who-saw-a-ufo-and-their-story-was-ignored-for-50-years%2F

This explanation seems quite reasonable 

 

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4208

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the13bats
21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

This explanation seems quite reasonable 

 

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4208

257c6b63c49e3f0b8d4f0bd1a7905577.jpg.ea843da3f68b16b097e4eea172c0ec20.jpg

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Hazzard
5 hours ago, MrBene said:

Much of the stuff around has been explained, debunked or put out there for scrutiny without much relevance. I believe the UFO field has went quite dry lately, lot of cgi, explained stuff, bunch of looneys making money out of it.

I agree with you, sure there are UFOs/stores that remain Unexplained, but that is only because we dont have enough information. 

Not once have I heard of a UFO enter or leave the Earths atmosphere. 

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quillius
13 hours ago, stereologist said:

Actually Stanley saw planes. He did not identify a single plane. He also saw that they were square winged planes, IIRC.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/climate-strike-student-global-warming-united-nations-arizona-phoenix-11360539

thanks, my mistake, you are right he said planes......damn old age and memory :(

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quillius
11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

If you want research being done, why not kick start the old Phoenix Lights thread. It is back in view as someone posted in it recently.
This thread is just a "best evidence" thread. I really don't feel like doing all that leg work for Phoenix Lights when that should be  done in its own thread.

 

i agree, that would be a better idea as there is a mountain of info there already...

 

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