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Hazzard

Best evidence for ET

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Desertrat56
10 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This type of speculative thread is good, IMO. So I posit this idea while we are in a speculation mode.

The genus homo came into being some 300,000 years ago at most. Let's suppose that an Alien civilization (or more) long before the advent of homo came to earth to reside because their own planet(s) were no longer livable. 

Q: Does that give these residential Aliens the right to call earth their planet and humans an invasive species?

But what if we are their descendants?

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stereologist
5 hours ago, DodgyDaoist said:

We are only bound by our current understanding of physics, which in all honesty is still rudimetary, considering we are still stuck in the notion of making and controling things that go bang to move around.

We havnt even cracked non-combustible propulsion yet.

If 'they' are from some distant planet , then they clearly have.

Actually we have. The ion propulsion systems were first demonstrated in space in 1964.

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stereologist
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And of course that is true but let us not forget, before humans discovered quantum mechanics we humans were still bound by quantum mechanics, excuse our ignorance for not even knowing. Ditto for relativity physics.

Meaning, the Aliens may have discovered some new field of physics that we have not - even though we are bound by it. And it turns out that this new field in physics gave them the ability to transport seemingly great distances with ease. Einstein long ago gave us worm hole theory, as an example.

Maybe some other laws are out there waiting for our discovery? Possible.

What Einstein did was to solve the problems that had been noticed by scientists for some time. One of the problems was that the speed of light was the same for all observers. Another was the orbit of Mercury.  What Einstein did was solve problems for extreme situations. There was a fairly decent length of time that problems were noticed. The same with QM. There were problems such as the UV catastrophe that told people there was a problem with the understanding of physics. Radioactivity was unknown until 1896. That was when the structure of the atom was not known.

Today we know about the particles that make up our universe. We also know about the 4 fundamental forces. There are hypothetical particles. Maybe there are forces between those particles that do not affect the particles we do know about.

I just want to make sure you understand that the development of QM an relativity was based on known problems with the classical models. There was a hint that something new was there to be worked out.

 

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the13bats
6 hours ago, DodgyDaoist said:

If 'they' are from some distant planet , then they clearly have.

nope, because no proof they are here or have.

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the13bats
3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

You think going light speed is the answer? Ha! If we were to travel ten times the speed of light, it would still take 10,000 years to cross the Milky Way. That's crawling, man!

I watch sci fi like star wars, star trek and they make that jump to light speed no problemo, they run LS for a few mins, hours? shoot the breeze play games, no issues, um except in planet of the apes, seems their time and earth time plays odd games,

then other flicks like aliens and 2010 do that "hypersleep" thing, months, years? i am stiff and have to stretch and boot up after 10 hours, so i doubt a person will wake from some months or years como like slumber and do cart wheels,

10k years? lets say its closer we want to go one light years of distant, so what now we sleep that year? then how long for rehab?

plus at light speed wouldnt even a grain of sand be deadly if it hit a craft?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

But what if we are their descendants?

DNA says otherwise, or so we think, anyway. Homo Sapien has a DNA that it shares with native earth creatures, like the chimpoanzee that has at least 98.6% of human DNA. 

We *expect* aliens to have a much different DNA makeup with markers we don't see in earth creatures, perhaps, so not really.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
44 minutes ago, the13bats said:

10k years? lets say its closer we want to go one light years of distant, so what now we sleep that year? then how long for rehab?

plus at light speed wouldnt even a grain of sand be deadly if it hit a craft?

The amount of time needed to accelerate to 10c and then deaccelerate without killing people would be months

Better propulsion is not a suitable solution to intragalactic space travel, IMO

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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the13bats
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The amount of time needed to accelerate to 10c and then deaccelerate without killing people would be months

Better propulsion is not a suitable solution to intragalactic space travel, IMO

humans arent suited for long treks in space,

many years ago i saw a documentary it was real scientists having fun speculating on alien life,

they liked symmetry, claiming it works better, the thing that hit me was basically every being could be compared to real known creatures, fantasy based or made up for books and movies, the beings were human constructs.

 

 

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XenoFish

Why not just send sentient machines? 

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bmk1245
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Why not just send sentient machines? 

Too expensive, and monkeys won't last that long...:rolleyes:

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_Only

Wait, didn't this titled thread exist before, a huge, massive thread? Or was that a slightly different title?

I also recently couldn't find the massive 9/11 thread on here either.

Was there a purging of old threads that happened at some point on the site?

 

edit: Oop, just noticed you can search forums by most replies. Guess the old 2 best evidence threads were locked, probably reached reply limit. That must be the case with the 9/11 megathread, too.

Edited by _Only

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Why not just send sentient machines? 

Send anything. You have the same big problem. Our closest star is Proxima Centauri. 4.24 light years. Sounds close, right?

Quote

The figure always cited here is the heliocentric speed of Voyager 1, some 17.05 kilometers per second, which is faster than any of our outward bound spacecraft but would take well over 70,000 years to reach Alpha Centauri,

LOL

And stop changing your clothes on us, Xeno!

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XenoFish
Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And stop changing your clothes on us, Xeno!

The **** are you talking about?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The **** are you talking about?

you changed your icon,,, again!  Can't you just roll with *an* identity? Gad.  How am I going to remember you?

Oh ya, the guy with no sense of humor LOL

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

you changed your icon,,, again!  Can't you just roll with *an* identity? Gad.  How am I going to remember you?

Oh ya, the guy with no sense of humor LOL

 

Am I supposed to play a role is some online act for the rest of my time here? To be some character for peoples amusement? Yeah, I pretty much have no sense of humor. When everything and everyone is a joke eventually you stop laughing. 

Edited by XenoFish

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psyche101
12 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

This is true but as science fills in the knowledge gaps then a few loop holes might emerge? 

Like the theoretical Alcubierrie drive I mentioned earlier? 

Sure, thing is its that's a wild hope. It's just as likely that physics has shown us universal speed limits. That strikes me as a basic in physics and good reason why we are aware if it, and why that is more likely to limit us rather than indicate there are ways around physics. More often than not, things are what they are. 

12 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

For example the Higgs boson was suspected but not confirmed until about five years ago. Now we know the Higgs exists what if it could be turned off? This would allow a spacecraft to control its mass and space flight, even with chemical engines, would be transformed.     

Its of ideas abound. What if exotic matter is discovered that can not only open a wormhole, but expand it to be large enough to be useful and hold it open long enough to actually use one. 

But what if universal speed limits are it? There's every reason to keep looking sure, but no good reason to think that physics isn't going to limit our imaginations. We knew the Higgs bosun should be there because the standard model predicted it. Or does not predict physics can be broken. Like the theoretical Alcubierrie drive, we might be able to work with physics 9ne day but I doubt we will break or change them. 

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psyche101
12 hours ago, DodgyDaoist said:

Great link , thanks.

There could very well be sub-light species out there, simply not in the neighbourhood. Our location is a little remote, we are kind of 'in the sticks' so to speak.

Within 50 light years we have 11 potentially habitable planets. Our BMEWS signals can coherently reach 63 light years. 6 of those within 20 light years. It strikes me that other life is going to be so far away we would be incredibly lucky to find it. And vice versa. Being in the sticks as you say also just makes it less likely that we might be visited by other species, especially with the regularity UFOlogy would suggest. 

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psyche101
10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This is very possible, maybe likely.  Alien life forms may not even be carbon based. A good possibility is silicon based. That would allow for even more life forms than carbon based. 

Silicone life is not a 'good' possibility. It's a very unlikely but perhaps a possibile proposal. More a thought experiment. 

Silicone doesn't behave like carbon. If it was to provide a basic life form, it would be incredibly sluggish. At least is such a firm found a way to invade the planet (silicone lifeforms would not develop sentience) it would be more interested in eating our buildings than us. 

Silicone might help life 'find a way' in extreme environments. It won't result in candidates for an intergalactic federation. 

Quote

But, they are intelligent so they could communicate, if they chose. I would think, anyway. We have sent out probes with basic information about humans. 

Why wouldn't first contact be by communicating? How is it not a great deal more logical, economical and safer to talk first rather than drop by? 

Quote

That's an interesting idea. Plant based, or bots, droids. It would  be somewhat cruel to send natural beings on these generations long journies. 

I can't see it. A organic life has a use by date amd requires more complex compounds for energy. 

Quote

Dodgy, if this line of thinking is correct (it seems logical) then I would suggest that these aliens tried these probes when they were evolved slightly ahead of where humans are now, some 1/4 million years. That could have happened billions of years ago. So at what point do the aliens take their results from the probes and send actual entities? I would think long ago.

Ya, many hypothesis. And not much to go on, other than our *presumption* that Aliens would want to explore the galaxy as soon as they were able. 

Good up.

Theoretical Von Neuman probes seem more logical to me 

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psyche101
10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And of course that is true but let us not forget, before humans discovered quantum mechanics we humans were still bound by quantum mechanics, excuse our ignorance for not even knowing. Ditto for relativity physics.

Meaning, the Aliens may have discovered some new field of physics that we have not - even though we are bound by it. And it turns out that this new field in physics gave them the ability to transport seemingly great distances with ease. Einstein long ago gave us worm hole theory, as an example.

Maybe some other laws are out there waiting for our discovery? Possible.

Possible that we might expand, but this is just like saying we are the only planet with life in the universe. Its a wild guess. There's no good reason to think that will happen and result in ways around the basics. 

What we need more is a good reason to think this is possible. Like we had a good reason to look for the Higgs. 

Edited by psyche101

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psyche101
10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This type of speculative thread is good, IMO. So I posit this idea while we are in a speculation mode.

The genus homo came into being some 300,000 years ago at most. Let's suppose that an Alien civilization (or more) long before the advent of homo came to earth to reside because their own planet(s) were no longer livable. 

Q: Does that give these residential Aliens the right to call earth their planet and humans an invasive species?

I reckon we wait until we dig up an ancient alien wallmart before we worry too much about that. 

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psyche101
5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The amount of time needed to accelerate to 10c and then deaccelerate without killing people would be months

Better propulsion is not a suitable solution to intragalactic space travel, IMO

Hypothetically, if you can break light speed many times over, its just as possible that inertia can be mitigated as well. 

Futurama overcame that problem by moving the universe instead of the ship. 

Edited by psyche101

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Desertrat56
20 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

DNA says otherwise, or so we think, anyway. Homo Sapien has a DNA that it shares with native earth creatures, like the chimpoanzee that has at least 98.6% of human DNA. 

We *expect* aliens to have a much different DNA makeup with markers we don't see in earth creatures, perhaps, so not really.

What if the ark myth is based on people from outer space escaping a disaster and bringing the DNA of all their animals to earth.  In that case any anomalies would be native to the planet and everything else, including us, would be the immigrants.  If you are going to imagine refugees from another planet, why not go all the way.

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stereologist
9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

What if the ark myth is based on people from outer space escaping a disaster and bringing the DNA of all their animals to earth.  In that case any anomalies would be native to the planet and everything else, including us, would be the immigrants.  If you are going to imagine refugees from another planet, why not go all the way.

Then how do you account that DNA sequences are shared across many life forms? And the basic engines of metabolism are the same across most life.

Besides why would aliens have DNA using 4 base pairs. In labs I believe 8 new base pairs have been inserted.

http://www.saps.org.uk/saps-associates/browse-q-and-a/473-how-much-dna-do-plants-share-with-humans-over-99

Quote

It is not surprising that all animals and plants have the majority of their GENES in common. The mechanism by which sugars are oxidised to release their energy (respiration) is almost universal. There are dozens of enzymes involved with this process alone. Each enzyme is a protein and each one needs to be coded for in DNA. There are many enzymes involved in the replication of DNA itself. Other processes are almost universal too.

Why would aliens be so similar?

Quote

There have been some interesting studies of proteins which ALL organisms share. One of these is Cytochrome C which is involved with part of respiration. The number of different amino acids/mutations between man and other organisms has been extensively studied. Information like this can give a numerical difference between man and other species (including plants). However, these differences are not in the part of the molecule that matters - the part of the molecule which enables Cytochrome C to carry out its function. Such data is useful for studies to tell how closely organisms are related (and indeed tell us about the relationships within that tree), but they do not tell us how "different" we are, because the Cytochrome C works the SAME in ALL organisms!

The idea that some life forms are so-called immigrants does not appear to make sense.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

What if the ark myth is based on people from outer space escaping a disaster and bringing the DNA of all their animals to earth.  In that case any anomalies would be native to the planet and everything else, including us, would be the immigrants.  If you are going to imagine refugees from another planet, why not go all the way.

I'm pretty sure they can check DNA of today's animal creatures to that of animal remains from thousands of years ago.

If you'd like to sway down the unbeaten path, you can do it. Just bring your evidences.  ;)

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Piney
54 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'm pretty sure they can check DNA of today's animal creatures to that of animal remains from thousands of years ago.

The figured out tyrannosaurs were related to wild turkeys with RNA from mummified skin. :yes: 

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