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Hazzard

Best evidence for ET

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Saru
7 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The problem is, people all over the region know darn right well what airplanes and flares are. They saw something else that panicked them.

Not a statement of fact, you are assuming because it fits into your pre-conceived narrative.

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ThereWeAreThen
1 minute ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Why do people think this??? I'm not getting mad or anything else. Just stating my case.

I stated why, and I am too tired to retype it. Look in these recent posts. I articulated my reasons for it. 

If it is some  kind of secret test aircraft, the USAF just does not know how to keep a secret, then, eh?

 

Well if it was secret tech then clearly they kept is secret as the people didn't know what they were.:lol:

Sorry but it just came across as if you were slightly agitated/annoyed and responded with a wee bit of an aggressive tone. I probably misread it. I'm nor 100% I had 2 seizures in work yesterday.:rolleyes:

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Earl.Of.Trumps
2 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Because I saw the video of someone who was close to the area which you can see. Big brights orbs slowly appeared one after another. And as they are there was a wee blinking light moving just past them as they did. 

So I actually saw evidence because it was FILMED. Unless were on about a different "sighting" ofcourse.

Of course we are talking of different sightings. That one film could not possibly be held as what was responsible for sightings over such a broad expanse of land. According to Lynne Kitei, there were 8 different types of air vehicles seen over a large expanse of land/air space.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
2 hours ago, Saru said:

Not a statement of fact, you are assuming because it fits into your pre-conceived narrative.

I openly admit that I have the preconceived notion that people in that region of the US/Mexico do know what military aircraft look like. Yes. And that they should behave in kind upon seeing them in the sky. Yes. And I think that all people should have a similar preconception on that issue. Yes.

What we saw here was a very strong reaction by the common folk to what is supposed to be military aircraft. If they are military craft, they are something the likes of which has never been put on public display before. That's all I can say about military aircraft - which BTW, do not fly down into Mexico.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Saru said:

On the subject of the Phoenix Lights, I thought the generally accepted explanation was that they were military flares ?

Saru, that was event 2. The flares were seen at 10PM but planes flew over Phoenix at around 8PM for event 1. This has been a confusing issue of years as TV news has shown flares and talked about the planes.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Oh, yes, I did screw up New Mexico for Nevada. But no problem, unless your only intent is to ridicule I suppose.

But let's get to it:  Henderson Link

It does not say "Nevada" but if you lookup Henderson, Nevada, you will see it is on the eastern side, very close to Arizona.
Also, there is no such city as "Henderson, Arizona".

The first sighting came from Nevada and it was NOT military aircraft.

No intent to ridicule. I was pointing out that you missed a state and had the wrong state in its place.

The reason I did not name the correct state was that I wanted you to find it on your own. 

Henderson is close to Boulder dam and is the site of the famous explosions at the Morton Thiokol plant.

It was planes. No one has suggested military aircraft. If you'd care to point out anyone saying military aircraft please do. And if you can exclude military aircraft please tell us how you can do that.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'm not trying to move the goal posts, that is what you people said before in a prior thread so I though you would stick to it.

Y'all said, Canadian Tudors or A-10 Warthogs. remember??

Anyway, it wasn't.

You were never in Arizona on the night of Phoenix Lights. The eyewitnesses know more than you, so I listen to them.

THey were  UFOs

You are confusing events 1 and 2. The military aircraft are associated with the flares, not the planes that flew over Phoenix.

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that stated 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or a different number of lights?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated silent or they heard the sound of planes?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The orange, red, green, yellow or some other color of lights?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that stated high or the ones that stated low?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated boomerang, triangle, semicircle or some other shape?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated stars passed between the lights or the ones that stated lights were blacked out?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that used telescopes and binoculars and saw planes?

Witnesses heard planes, saw planes, and got a video. 

It's planes for event 1.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

It depends on who you listen to, Saru.

People in Mexico clearly could not see flares. So what did *they* see?  Also, I doubt people in Nevada or even southern Arizona could see flares either.

I believe the witnesses.  UFOs

Again you need to learn what happened that night. There were 2 separate events. You are mixing events 1 and 2.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, quillius said:

Hi Stereo, can you confirm the observers that saw planes. I know Mitch with his telescope saw A plane...not planes from memory, ie not a formation of 5 planes that would/could be mistaken for triangle/boomerang

Actually Stanley saw planes. He did not identify a single plane. He also saw that they were square winged planes, IIRC.

Quote

"They were just planes, I didn't want to look at them," Stanley says when he's asked why he didn't stare at them longer. He is certain about what he saw: "They were planes. There's no way I could have mistaken that."

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/climate-strike-student-global-warming-united-nations-arizona-phoenix-11360539

Edited by stereologist

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

For sure, opinion.  But I'll take the opinions of the people who actually *witnessed* them over the opinions of people who didn't, any day.

It's called "designer solution". You declare it to be what you want, for many people. 
I look at the over evidence and yes, weigh heavily what witnesses say they saw. 

Many people over a very large swath of land call the police, over what?? planes and flares?  THIS MAKES NO SENSE and is not to be believed.

In my opinion, of course.
 

I'm reporting what witnesses saw. I'm not guessing or making up anything. I even supplied many witness reports to you to read over so you could see that all of the things I have stated are in those witness reports such as differences in number of lights, colors of lights, arrangement of lights, altitude, speed, and sound. It is all there for you to check.

I've also reported 2 events, the correct states, and the fact that the claims of being seen from Sonora does not seem to include flying over the border.

You continue to claim that people called the police. Please show that to be the case. I do not believe that happened and would love to see what you can provide to support your repeated contention that the police were called by many people over a very large swatch of land.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Everything else you said is more than likely right but come on fella. I bet USAF aircraft "strayed" into Mexican airspace on numerous occasions.

I agree. Earl.Of.Trumps is saying impossible for US planes. Then he changes that to US military planes.

Not sure why he insists on military planes unless he knows so little about the Phoenix Lights he thinks there was a single incident, not the two that occurred.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

"commonly accepted" by WHOM? Certainly not the eyewitnesses.

If I could prove to you that it cannot be flares would it matter to you? I'm talking simple SCIENCE. Does that ever come into the equation?

The people in Somora, Mexico are too far away. The flares would be under their horizon and I think it is true about people in southern Arizona. Don't know about western Nevada (Henderson). But if it were possible - just possible, for people in distant places to see "flares" barely pop up over their horizon, do you think they would freak out and call the police? That is laughable.

 

There were two incidents. If you are not aware of that you need to sit down and learn about the events. The wikipedia page has this to say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

Quote

There were two distinct events involved in the incident: a triangular formation of lights seen to pass over the state, and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. 

 Event 1 was planes. Event 2 was flares. Event 1 was the planes from Nevada to the southern Arizona border. Event 2 was over the Barry Goldwater range and was about 70 miles from Phoenix.

It is true that the news often messed up and showed the flares while talking about event 1. Many UFO proponents also pushed the same confusion.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Saru said:

I've personally written up several news stories concerning people calling the police over some unidentified aerial phenomenon that has later turned out to have a conventional explanation. People can easily panic about unfamiliar things that they see in the sky.

Saru, I've been looking for calls to the police and I can't find anything yet. The newspaper reports by Tony Ortega and others do not mention the police being called.

I'm wondering where Earl.Of.Trumps is getting this idea that the police were called. It would be helpful if he gave a link to his source of information.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Of course people can get all flummoxed seeing something in the sky they never saw before - and IMO, that is exactly what happened in Phoenix Lights.

The problem is, people all over the region know darn right well what airplanes and flares are. They saw something else that panicked them.

I'm pretty sure people in Arizona know what military crafts look like. And yet on this one day, they panicked over them. MAKES NO SENSE

Even though event 2 was documented from multiple sites using video and that video was used by Bruce Maccabee in a triangulation to show they were over the Barry Goldwater test range people still want to pretend they could not be flares. Warthogs dropped flares with parachutes over the range. Still there are people like Lynn Kitei that watched these flares and they talked to her. SO no. People do not recognize military flares. Kitei is clear evidence that people do NOT recognize flares.

You claim that the police were called. I doubt that is true. You are free to show us that happened. Without that evidence I can only suppose that is not true. You claim people were panicked. I can't find evidence of that either. I don't believe that happened. You are free to support your story.

The planes were square winged in event 1. They were not swept back military planes. The planes of event 2 were 70 miles away. They were not seen. Only the flares were seen.

I can see you claiming that things make no sense. A large part of that is probably your own confusion about the events that happened. If you take the time to read and learn about that night in Phoenix you can likely make sense of the events.

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stereologist
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Of course we are talking of different sightings. That one film could not possibly be held as what was responsible for sightings over such a broad expanse of land. According to Lynne Kitei, there were 8 different types of air vehicles seen over a large expanse of land/air space.

Lynn Kitei thinks the flares of event 2 were close to her house and they "talked" to her. 

I don't believe she witnessed event 1. Using your argument, she didn't see it so she doesn't know anything.

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stereologist
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I openly admit that I have the preconceived notion that people in that region of the US/Mexico do know what military aircraft look like. Yes. And that they should behave in kind upon seeing them in the sky. Yes. And I think that all people should have a similar preconception on that issue. Yes.

What we saw here was a very strong reaction by the common folk to what is supposed to be military aircraft. If they are military craft, they are something the likes of which has never been put on public display before. That's all I can say about military aircraft - which BTW, do not fly down into Mexico.

Why do you insist it was all military aircraft? Event 2 was definitely military aircraft. It was warthogs 70 miles away. They were too far away to be seen at night at that distance.

Even the planes of event 1 were overhead at night. Stanley reported square winged planes. Why are you claiming they were military? I see no one other than you trying to force that idea.

Do people recognize military aircraft? No.  You are assigning capabilities to the average person that simply are most likely incorrect especially at night. What we do know is that they were planes. Stanley and a man with binoculars reported planes. People heard planes. We even know that the planes were flying at 400mph.

There seems to have been little reaction other than some mild awe. There was a "what's that" reaction to seeing the lights. 

I see no evidence that the planes flew over Mexico. That seems to be a straw man argument.

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stereologist

So what is to be learned from the Phoenix Lights? Here is a suggestion from an investigative reporter that did quite a bit of digging to get the facts of the case.

Quote

All witnesses seem in agreement on one thing: the unusual brightness of the lights. Flight controller Grava says that's the only reason he is reluctant to accept the explanation that it was a group of airplanes that flew over Arizona March 13.

Until a group comes forward to claim the flight, however, the planes' unusual lights and apparent lack of transponder signals suggest the possibility of a calculated hoax.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/climate-strike-student-global-warming-united-nations-arizona-phoenix-11360539

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stereologist

I don't believe that the lights went over the border.

https://kjzz.org/content/152152/did-you-know-phoenix-lights-still-unexplainable-today

Quote

Sightings actually happened near the Nevada-Arizona border. A man said that in the early evening hours he saw a chevron-shaped object with six lights underneath it. Similar reports came from the Prescott area, followed by others in Phoenix and the rest of the Valley. People in Tucson and along the Sonora border also claimed they saw an unusually large V-shaped, translucent object. 

There are no witness reports from Mexico as far as I can see.

I think that Mexico was added in but it does not appear to be the case. Unlike reports from Henderson and Kingman, the reports seem to dwindle out after Phoenix.

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Golden Duck
5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

...

You were never in Arizona on the night of Phoenix Lights. The eyewitnesses know more than you, so I listen to them. ...

The witnesses with binoculars and telescopes know more than anybody.

They said planes. 

Listen to them.

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ThereWeAreThen
9 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

The witnesses with binoculars and telescopes know more than anybody.

They said planes. 

Listen to them.

Sssh stop presenting facts.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

No intent to ridicule. I was pointing out that you missed a state and had the wrong state in its place.

The reason I did not name the correct state was that I wanted you to find it on your own. 

Henderson is close to Boulder dam and is the site of the famous explosions at the Morton Thiokol plant.

It was planes. No one has suggested military aircraft. If you'd care to point out anyone saying military aircraft please do. And if you can exclude military aircraft please tell us how you can do that.

 

I have stated why time and again in this thread. There is no way that "just people" freak out over the sight of airplanes any more than they would seeing a bus or a train. They all see these things regularly. 

But it is not just that they were surprised by the sighting, they actually called the police. Really!? :hmm:  What the hey!

As I pointed out, there are seven large Air Force bases in Arizona. All have minimum 5,000 troops. If you want to believe that people in Arizona lead such sheltered lives that they don't know how to behave upon viewing an aircraft, be my guest!  But then you may have to justify why their behavior upon seeing crafts in the sky was never like this before, nor has it been like this since just this one day.

When I hear a woman who was in her back yard with her kids say upon seeing one of these low flying crafts, "it looked like a shopping mall", I figure she is not seeing an aircraft with wings etc. That's my opinion.

People saw all kinds of strange things. Different colored orbs. V shaped crafts. lots of stuff. Things that couldn't possibly be aircrafts as we know them. And our aircrafts cannot go into Mexico, so now you have to come up with a different reason why the people of Somona freaked out because they did not see American aircrafts, and the Mexican government did not  issue any angry statements in the media for same reason.

Too many people to ignore, too many to just talk down and say they were mixed up. They saw something other than "planes".

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

You are confusing events 1 and 2. The military aircraft are associated with the flares, not the planes that flew over Phoenix.

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that stated 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or a different number of lights?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated silent or they heard the sound of planes?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The orange, red, green, yellow or some other color of lights?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that stated high or the ones that stated low?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated boomerang, triangle, semicircle or some other shape?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to?  The ones that stated stars passed between the lights or the ones that stated lights were blacked out?

Which eyewitness are you going to listen to? The ones that used telescopes and binoculars and saw planes?

Witnesses heard planes, saw planes, and got a video. 

It's planes for event 1.

I am most going to listen to the thousands that gave their testimony to Dr. Lynne Kitei who says there were 10,000 witnesses, many that she interviewed. How many people in this UM forum interviewed ONE such witness.

I listen to the Governor of Arizona, Fife Symington who said that HE SAW THE SHIP with his own eyes and he said it was "otherworldly". 

That's who I listen to.

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Dejarma
6 hours ago, Saru said:

On the subject of the Phoenix Lights, I thought the generally accepted explanation was that they were military flares ?

yep, this is why no one NEAR to them filmed them- because they knew what they were.. film them from a great distance looking all weird & wonderful, call it a ufo sighting & there you go;)

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

I'm reporting what witnesses saw. I'm not guessing or making up anything. I even supplied many witness reports to you to read over so you could see that all of the things I have stated are in those witness reports such as differences in number of lights, colors of lights, arrangement of lights, altitude, speed, and sound. It is all there for you to check.

I dislike repeating myself. Please pay attention. Dr Kitei catalogued 8 different UFOs with varying colors in the skies that night.
lights cvan go on and off, change colors. I see no need to jump the gun and claim contradiction at all.

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

I've also reported 2 events, the correct states, and the fact that the claims of being seen from Sonora does not seem to include flying over the border.

You continue to claim that people called the police. Please show that to be the case. I do not believe that happened and would love to see what you can provide to support your repeated contention that the police were called by many people over a very large swatch of land.

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

There were two incidents. If you are not aware of that you need to sit down and learn about the events. The wikipedia page has this to say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

 Event 1 was planes. Event 2 was flares. Event 1 was the planes from Nevada to the southern Arizona border. Event 2 was over the Barry Goldwater range and was about 70 miles from Phoenix.

It is true that the news often messed up and showed the flares while talking about event 1. Many UFO proponents also pushed the same confusion.

I am aware of two incidents. It depends on who is arguing with me and what they claim as to what I try to show cannot be. You say planes went from Nevada to southern Arizona.

What happened to Somona, Mexico? Did you suddenly realize that - yes, EoT is right, American planes cannot go into Mexico?

Event one was not planes.

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