Gallup poll: 'Government is covering up UFOs'

[freetoroam]

34 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 Not astronomers but very credible eyewitnesses and professionals in aerodynamics. 

They are professionally trained to fly the planes and watch the radars and understand the controls.

They are also trained in keeping military secrets.

My point is, the military craft misidentified by people as a UFO will be confirmed to be a UFO by the military. Even if a pilot knows it is a secret plane being tested, he will say it is a UFO. That is the cover up.

Also - Not all military pilots will know about every secret plane, so if they see something odd, then to them it is odd as they can not identify it.

It is a UFO but not a visiting alien craft.

Which pilot has said they saw an alien craft from another planet, apart from the retired pilots who have time on their hands and want to promote their book? 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by freetoroam

[Unusual Tournament]

4 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

They are professionally trained to fly the planes and watch the radars and understand the controls.

They are also trained in keeping military secrets.

My point is, the military craft misidentified by people as a UFO will be confirmed to be a UFO by the military. Even if a pilot knows it is a secret plane being tested, he will say it is a UFO. That is the cover up.

Also - Not all military pilots will know about every secret plane, so if they see something odd, then to them it is odd as they can not identify it.

It is a UFO but not a visiting alien craft.

Which pilot has said they saw an alien craft from another planet, apart from the retired pilots who have time on their hands and want to promote their book? 

 

Well that’s your opinion. It’s plausible to some degree a conspiracy. Let’s assume that there are no conspiracies and just a desire to get to the bottom of this phenomenon.

[freetoroam]

50 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

Oh, yes. Here he is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman

 

Quote

His positions are regarded as controversial in mainstream science and media,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman

You should not be fooled by his title. There is no evidence of visiting alien crafts and no matter how much some try to convince people by writing books, the fact is they have not produced any evidence to back up their belief. 

[Dejarma]

17 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

the fact is they have not produced any evidence to back up their belief. 

well that's a fact

[Golden Duck]

20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

So what are they if not alien technologies.

Unidentified. 

[TrumanB]

56 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

 

You should not be fooled by his title. There is no evidence of visiting alien crafts and no matter how much some try to convince people by writing books, the fact is they have not produced any evidence to back up their belief. 

I see nothing controversial  about Friedman. He had very serious employers, worked on important project and didn't scare to debate with sceptics. But to be clear, I incline to agree with you that there is no strong evidence of visiting alien crafts. Just saying that the fact that someone is a believer doesn't make him a fool or conman or charlatan.

For example, I'm in touch with some people that I consider very talented clairvoyants, aura seers etc...and they claim that had communication with aliens on mental level. I don't think they are crazy or liers. So although there are no tangible evidences I am open to the idea that there is something more.

Edited September 10, 2019 by TrumanB

[Golden Duck]

7 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The government couldn't even cover up Monica Lewinsky.

To be fair, neither could she.

[Big Jim]

I think this survey says a lot more about people's attitudes towards the government that it does about belief in UFOs.  It reflects the high level of distrust in our government.  You could change the question to any subject , Do you think the government is covering up X, Y or Z?  and get the same percentage of sceptics.  We know we've been lied to before.  The people we elect to run the place do it all the time.  We expect it, it's become cliché.  So in the context of the survey it doesn't matter if UFOs exist, what matters is trust in our government.  If there is some hidden truth behind the UFO phenomenon we will most likely discover it through independent means rather than have it revealed by the government.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 9/9/2019 at 2:20 AM, UM-Bot said:

The majority of Americans believe that the US government knows more than it is letting on about UFOs.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/330288/gallup-poll-government-is-covering-up-ufos

Since UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object I beleive the Government is covering up Secret Projects that happen to be seen or even photographed. However, I don't beleive that UFOs are extraterrestrial, there has never been any proof that this is the case.

JIMO

Edited September 13, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[CloudSix]

On 9/9/2019 at 11:59 PM, freetoroam said:

How old do you think this secret society could be?

I ask because when do you think an alien craft came to Earth and at what stage did this secret society form made of people from different countries?

Lets say a ufo landed near a small remote Chinese village, say 100 years ago, do you think the Chinese then contacted other countries from all over the world to get themselves someone assigned to have a look and keep it a secret from the general public? Are you seeing how rudiculous this sounds?

If an alien craft visited Earth more recently, it would be spotted by the thousands of astronomers all over the world, the governments do not have an exclusive view to the our skies.

Well I'm sure that we can go on on with this discussion, since I can keep imagining scenarios and you can keep imagining ways to dispute them, which is fine but I really don't wanna do it. Instead, a question.

You are adamant in dissmising a lot of things that don't have tangible proof, but what about all those things that are unexplained? 

I read through the comments( about plasma balls, the mysterious lights..) and I agree that a lot of these phenomenons could be of terrestrial origin, but I have (again) a second hand experience( my father saw in the 80's an enormous disc come up from behind the mountains, gliding silently for a few minutes before disappearing into the distance). Broad daylight, 20 or 30 people saw it,  80's in a far away country in what was then Yugoslavia.

Goverment testing aircraft? C'mon.  

[the13bats]

8 minutes ago, CloudSix said:

Well I'm sure that we can go on on with this discussion, since I can keep imagining scenarios and you can keep imagining ways to dispute them, which is fine but I really don't wanna do it. Instead, a question.

You are adamant in dissmising a lot of things that don't have tangible proof, but what about all those things that are unexplained? 

I read through the comments( about plasma balls, the mysterious lights..) and I agree that a lot of these phenomenons could be of terrestrial origin, but I have (again) a second hand experience( my father saw in the 80's an enormous disc come up from behind the mountains, gliding silently for a few minutes before disappearing into the distance). Broad daylight, 20 or 30 people saw it,  80's in a far away country in what was then Yugoslavia.

Goverment testing aircraft? C'mon.  

not only did you just smoke and mirror it to avoid answering good questions, you go off with some other unsubstantiated story,

is your dad here to tell it first hand, nope, any of the 20 to 30 other alleged witnesses here, nope, any colabaration from the net, nope again.

i have said this a few times if i or someone i knew was involved in an alleged experience i would research the hell out of it,  there might have been reports from the other side of the mountains, or from a pilot or whatever but to not dive into it seems very careless and derelict on your part,

i can assure you had dad told me some outlandish story with zero proof i wouldnt have rested until i exhausted my research.

since all you have is a story and scoff at it being prosaic i will scoff at you only accepting that it wasnt prosaic.

[CloudSix]

31 minutes ago, the13bats said:

not only did you just smoke and mirror it to avoid answering good questions, you go off with some other unsubstantiated story,

is your dad here to tell it first hand, nope, any of the 20 to 30 other alleged witnesses here, nope, any colabaration from the net, nope again.

i have said this a few times if i or someone i knew was involved in an alleged experience i would research the hell out of it,  there might have been reports from the other side of the mountains, or from a pilot or whatever but to not dive into it seems very careless and derelict on your part,

i can assure you had dad told me some outlandish story with zero proof i wouldnt have rested until i exhausted my research.

since all you have is a story and scoff at it being prosaic i will scoff at you only accepting that it wasnt prosaic.

It's not smoke and mirroring it, it's just his questions are not really that great. 

"What if aliens had landed in provincial China a hundred years ago, would they have alerted the authorities"? What kind of a question is that!?

Maybe the Aliens would have made contact in provincial China and then kept their contact with all the people in the village, convincing the people in the village and later in all of China that they are benevolent and that they have a purpose here. Maybe then the authorities came to investigate, maybe the aliens convinced them of their purpose, maybe a secret council of all the world goverment's was called, bla bla bla..

As I said, that discussion can go on forever, because the claim that it's not possible is not at all imaginative and creative, not saying it should be, but in a discussion about a secret council which has ties to aliens, what kind of an adjective should I imply?

As for your claim that I scoffed at my dad's story being proisaic, not true. It may have seemed so in the post, but my investigation of the matter took place a span of a couple of years, there are still some witnesses alive, but I do not have any written proof. 

Why? Because we're talking about early 80's in a communist country, in a remote fishing town on the coast, with very little to none ties with the rest of the municipality. There weren't any real newspapers, there weren't any pilots. And the people who saw it are scoffing it of as prosaic, as is my dad. The answer to why  that is I  still don't know. 

After discussing it with him many times, he just said; It was a different time, if you saw something weird, you would keep it to yourself, not really talk about it"...

EDIT: I glanced over the other argument freetoroam had: "If an alien craft visited Earth more recently, it would be spotted by the thousands of astronomers all over the world, the governments do not have an exclusive view to the our skies."

Why is that? Thousands of astronomers around the world do not have access to all the information they think they can gather through their astronomy tools, that is I don't think that the capacity of amateur astronomers( however well equiped they are) can amount to the technology of the supposed aliens, or the UFO-s in general. 

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by CloudSix
Saw another question in the previus quotation

[the13bats]

9 minutes ago, CloudSix said:

It's not smoke and mirroring it, it's just his questions are not really that great. 

"What if aliens had landed in provincial China a hundred years ago, would they have alerted the authorities"? What kind of a question is that!?

Maybe the Aliens would have made contact in provincial China and then kept their contact with all the people in the village, convincing the people in the village and later in all of China that they are benevolent and that they have a purpose here. Maybe then the authorities came to investigate, maybe the aliens convinced them of their purpose, maybe a secret council of all the world goverment's was called, bla bla bla..

As I said, that discussion can go on forever, because the claim that it's not possible is not at all imaginative and creative, not saying it should be, but in a discussion about a secret council which has ties to aliens, what kind of an adjective should I imply?

As for your claim that I scoffed at my dad's story being proisaic, not true. It may have seemed so in the post, but my investigation of the matter took place a span of a couple of years, there are still some witnesses alive, but I do not have any written proof. 

Why? Because we're talking about early 80's in a communist country, in a remote fishing town on the coast, with very little to none ties with the rest of the municipality. There weren't any real newspapers, there weren't any pilots. And the people who saw it are scoffing it of as prosaic, as is my dad. The answer to why  that is I  still don't know. 

After discussing it with him many times, he just said; It was a different time, if you saw something weird, you would keep it to yourself, not really talk about it"...

EDIT: I glanced over the other argument freetoroam had: "If an alien craft visited Earth more recently, it would be spotted by the thousands of astronomers all over the world, the governments do not have an exclusive view to the our skies."

Why is that? Thousands of astronomers around the world do not have access to all the information they think they can gather through their astronomy tools, that is I don't think that the capacity of amateur astronomers( however well equiped they are) can amount to the technology of the supposed aliens, or the UFO-s in general. 

 

you misunderstood me a little, i scoff at anyone who denounces prosiac a possibility or in most cases likely explanation,

you are clearly a very biased very close minded blind faith true believer, not meant as insult rather observation, me? im a person who is willing to look at the evidence and make a conclusion based on it, or lack of it,

as far as your dads encounter im done there,

your ideas about a world wide conspiracy what it would require is just too sci fi, tin foil hat sounding for me at the moment

 

 

[CloudSix]

11 minutes ago, the13bats said:

you misunderstood me a little, i scoff at anyone who denounces prosiac a possibility or in most cases likely explanation,

you are clearly a very biased very close minded blind faith true believer, not meant as insult rather observation, me? im a person who is willing to look at the evidence and make a conclusion based on it, or lack of it,

as far as your dads encounter im done there,

your ideas about a world wide conspiracy what it would require is just too sci fi, tin foil hat sounding for me at the moment

 

 

 

[CloudSix]

13 minutes ago, the13bats said:

you misunderstood me a little, i scoff at anyone who denounces prosiac a possibility or in most cases likely explanation,

you are clearly a very biased very close minded blind faith true believer, not meant as insult rather observation, me? im a person who is willing to look at the evidence and make a conclusion based on it, or lack of it,

as far as your dads encounter im done there,

your ideas about a world wide conspiracy what it would require is just too sci fi, tin foil hat sounding for me at the moment

 

 

I disagree strongly with everything you just said, but such is the nature of discussions. 

I would say that in your desire to look at evidence and in your efforts to assign meaning and proof to everything you have closed yourself of for a plethora of possibilities, which is in it's own right, also fine.

Not ideas about a world wide conspiracy, nor do I believe that it exists, it was just an amusing thought, nothing else...

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

28 minutes ago, CloudSix said:

It's not smoke and mirroring it, it's just his questions are not really that great. 

"What if aliens had landed in provincial China a hundred years ago, would they have alerted the authorities"? What kind of a question is that!?

Maybe the Aliens would have made contact in provincial China and then kept their contact with all the people in the village, convincing the people in the village and later in all of China that they are benevolent and that they have a purpose here. Maybe then the authorities came to investigate, maybe the aliens convinced them of their purpose, maybe a secret council of all the world goverment's was called, bla bla bla..

As I said, that discussion can go on forever, because the claim that it's not possible is not at all imaginative and creative, not saying it should be, but in a discussion about a secret council which has ties to aliens, what kind of an adjective should I imply?

As for your claim that I scoffed at my dad's story being proisaic, not true. It may have seemed so in the post, but my investigation of the matter took place a span of a couple of years, there are still some witnesses alive, but I do not have any written proof. 

Why? Because we're talking about early 80's in a communist country, in a remote fishing town on the coast, with very little to none ties with the rest of the municipality. There weren't any real newspapers, there weren't any pilots. And the people who saw it are scoffing it of as prosaic, as is my dad. The answer to why  that is I  still don't know. 

After discussing it with him many times, he just said; It was a different time, if you saw something weird, you would keep it to yourself, not really talk about it"...

EDIT: I glanced over the other argument freetoroam had: "If an alien craft visited Earth more recently, it would be spotted by the thousands of astronomers all over the world, the governments do not have an exclusive view to the our skies."

Why is that? Thousands of astronomers around the world do not have access to all the information they think they can gather through their astronomy tools, that is I don't think that the capacity of amateur astronomers( however well equiped they are) can amount to the technology of the supposed aliens, or the UFO-s in general. 

 

You said above if a UFO visited Earth recently it would have been spotted by thousands of Astronomers.  Well I don't beleive that would be the case at all. Not long ago an Asteroid came out of know where and passed very close to the Earth, they didn't see it until it was passing us and it was a lot larger than a UFO. Think about that!

[CloudSix]

23 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You said above if a UFO visited Earth recently it would have been spotted by thousands of Astronomers.  Well I don't beleive that would be the case at all. Not long ago an Asteroid came out of know where and passed very close to the Earth, they didn't see it until it was passing us and it was a lot larger than a UFO. Think about that!

Hi, maybe I didn't make it clear enough, sorry; that wasn't my statement, it was the argument a few posts back that the user "freetoroam" made, and I also disagree with him!

[RoofGardener]

On 9/10/2019 at 3:19 AM, Captain Risky said:

This anti alien UFO cabal is so easy to break. Ask them if not aliens then what are they.. and It’s the same old chestnut... weather balloon, enemy drone or drunken eyewitnesses...lol

They are Unidentified Objects. It is up to the "UFO Cabal" to persuade us that they represent aliens, not for us to prove they don't .  

On 9/10/2019 at 3:21 AM, Captain Risky said:

They’ve been visual and radar recordings by military Personel, surely these professionals are t that inept at their jobs and their superiors just gullible to brief the president and congress on birds and weather balloons?

I don't believe there HAVE been visual recordings ? And radar tapes only show what the radar 'saw', which is amenable to all sorts of distortions and ghosts. 

On 9/10/2019 at 3:24 AM, Captain Risky said:

Something that can move at Mach 10 and stop suddenly and shot off again in another direction is not of this world.

Two different flocks of birds, at many miles distance from each other, detected at alternate sweeps of the radar, could be interpreted as a correlated item travelling at huge speeds. 

On 9/10/2019 at 5:39 PM, Captain Risky said:

.....Plasma lightning wouldn’t be able to be recorded on video or radar. Something that the airforce all ready has.

 

The airforce has video and radar ? Gosh.. whodathunkit ? They ARE very advanced these days, aren't they ? 

On 9/10/2019 at 10:36 PM, Saru said:

Thread cleaned

Enough with the hostilities please.

Bah. You spoil ALL our fun  

[Piney]

4 hours ago, CloudSix said:

Hi, maybe I didn't make it clear enough, sorry; that wasn't my statement, it was the argument a few posts back that the user "freetoroam" made, and I also disagree with him!

@freetoroam is a "her".......But "she" puts up with it all the time so for now on we'll just say "them" in all 3 personal cases. 

On 9/10/2019 at 6:55 PM, TrumanB said:

For example, I'm in touch with some people that I consider very talented clairvoyants, aura seers etc...and they claim that had communication with aliens on mental level. I don't think they are crazy or liers. So although there are no tangible evidences I am open to the idea that there is something more.

*sigh* 

Tru, read up the star systems where all these "contactees?" say their contact is from. They never do their research and always pick ones that are young and have proto-planets or no planets at all. 

[+DieChecker]

Or, are on the complete other side of the galaxy, and like a blue giant, which are crazy big. 

They come 75,000 Lightyears to get here because.... there's NOT billions of planets between?

Ridiculous. 

[TrumanB]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

 

Tru, read up the star systems where all these "contactees?" say their contact is from. They never do their research and always pick ones that are young and have proto-planets or no planets at all. 

This one that I'm in contact with doesn't mention any location. And he also told me that there are many different alien species - some very advanced, and some like animals. This American guy is great very good at reading auras so I can't say that I think that he lies to me.

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

This one that I'm in contact with doesn't mention any location. And he also told me that there are many different alien species - some very advanced, and some like animals. This American guy is great very good at reading auras so I can't say that I think that he lies to me.

*sigh*

Independent Subconscious Construct  AKA "Spirit Guardian". They come in all forms based on belief. 

Think of your "Alien" friend as a Tulpa in your brain. 

[stereologist]

20 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

This one that I'm in contact with doesn't mention any location. And he also told me that there are many different alien species - some very advanced, and some like animals. This American guy is great very good at reading auras so I can't say that I think that he lies to me.

Although there is no evidence for aliens, it seems that people want to provide a long list of alien types. This is like BF believers that can't provide any evidence of the existence of BF but will tell you the habits of BF.

Just because someone claims that they read auras does not mean a thing. It's a claim and it's a failure. Some of these people might even trick themselves into thinking they see auras.

http://skepdic.com/auras.html

Quote

Furthermore,  the best aura reader in the West was tested before a live television audience and failed miserably. The Berkeley Psychic Institute (BPI) sent their top aura reader for a chance to win $10,000 if she could prove her powers. She agreed that the devised test was a fair and accurate. The test was televised on a program hosted by Bill Bixby.  James Randi put up the $10,000. The psychic was presented with about twenty people on stage and was asked if she could see their auras. She said that she could see the auras, they all had one and they emanated at least a foot or two above each person's head. The twenty aura-wearing people then went offstage. A curtain was lifted, revealing a number of partitions behind which only some of the twenty people were standing. Thus, Bixby and the psychic were looking at twenty partitions but only several of them had a person behind it. The psychic was asked if she could see any auras creeping up above the partitions. She said she could. To get her ten grand all she had to do was correctly identify each partition that had a person behind it. She was to do this by seeing each person's aura above the partition. The audience was given an aerial camera view of the proceeding. Well, the psychic claimed that she saw an aura above all the partitions and that there was a person behind each partition. The partitions were removed, revealing about 6 people behind the partitions. The psychic didn't even seem surprised. She might console herself that 6 out of 20 is not bad in a hostile arena.

Auras don't exist except in the minds of the believers.

[psyche101]

On 9/11/2019 at 2:44 AM, Captain Risky said:

Thanks for your reply. Found it interesting and useful. Still you don’t go to the president and congress with sensational claims of electrical storms. I’m sure the airforce and navy have discounted all the obvious before being concerned enough to report.

I'm sure there is plenty of undocumented phenomena. The Hessdalen project not only illustrates that, but shows some commonalities with many claims IMHO. 

[TrumanB]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

http://skepdic.com/auras.html

Auras don't exist except in the minds of the believers.

I saw that test on youtube. It's completely ridiculous because they put people behind some wall or smth like that. To see aura you need to see person or its photo. So basically this Rendi's test is filter of conmen. Real aura seers would never take it.

Edited September 13, 2019 by TrumanB