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Still Waters

World 'losing battle against deforestation'

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Still Waters

A historic global agreement aimed at halting deforestation has failed, according to a report.

An assessment of the New York Declaration on Forests (NYDF) says it has failed to deliver on key pledges.

Launched at the 2014 UN climate summit, it aimed to half deforestation by 2020, and halt it by 2030.

Yet deforestation continues at an alarming rate and threatens to prevent the world from preventing dangerous climate change, experts have said.

The critique, compiled by the NYDF Assessment Partners (a coalition of 25 organisations), painted a bleak picture of how the world's forests continue to be felled.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49679883

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Dark_Grey
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An assessment of the New York Declaration on Forests (NYDF) says it has failed to deliver on key pledges.

Launched at the 2014 UN climate summit, it aimed to half deforestation by 2020, and halt it by 2030.

Deforestation for industrial purposes is not going any where. Which industries are the biggest culprits here and which countries do they work for? China is turning Africa upside down with new roads and facilities. We all know how the Chinese value the environment and American opinions on climate change.

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Tatetopa
11 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Deforestation for industrial purposes is not going any where. Which industries are the biggest culprits here and which countries do they work for? China is turning Africa upside down with new roads and facilities. We all know how the Chinese value the environment and American opinions on climate change.

Many but not all American forest industries harvest and replant.  It is especially prevalent among those who own their timberland. It is a crop, the land needs to stay productive, so there is a harvest and plant cycle in various sections of a large holding all the time.  There are also small family holdings.  A family that manages their land can keep a perpetual income stream going from a few hundred acres, size depending on land quality and geographic location.

We are not alone in this regard, Europeans do it about the same way.  

Seriously, if we wanted to change things for the better the US could use some of its influence to encourage  long term forest management.  We can't and shouldn't stop people from harvesting, economically they need to do it, but we can encourage replanting.

 

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Doug1o29
2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Deforestation for industrial purposes is not going any where. Which industries are the biggest culprits here and which countries do they work for? China is turning Africa upside down with new roads and facilities. We all know how the Chinese value the environment and American opinions on climate change.

The "biggest" culprits are the smallest:  private citizens clearing land for firewood for cooking and heating.  Mostly Third World.

Insect damage in drought and temperature-weakened forests is another.  Mostly, it's bark beetles.  Warmer weather means the brood doesn't die off in the winter.  Longer growing seasons mean more generations per year.  Drought means the trees can't produce as much pitch and resins to repel attack.  Mountain pine beetle epidemics have been on-going in the Rocky Mountains since the late 1970s.  Ips have wiped out half a million acres of pinyons in the Four Corners.  And southern pines are under attack by the Southern Pine Beetle.  That's all climate-related.

Doug

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spartan max2

The sad truth about most of these "accords" is that they are worth nonething more then the paper they are wrote on.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Doug1o29 said:

The "biggest" culprits are the smallest:  private citizens clearing land for firewood for cooking and heating.  Mostly Third World.

Insect damage in drought and temperature-weakened forests is another.  Mostly, it's bark beetles.  Warmer weather means the brood doesn't die off in the winter.  Longer growing seasons mean more generations per year.  Drought means the trees can't produce as much pitch and resins to repel attack.  Mountain pine beetle epidemics have been on-going in the Rocky Mountains since the late 1970s.  Ips have wiped out half a million acres of pinyons in the Four Corners.  And southern pines are under attack by the Southern Pine Beetle.  That's all climate-related.

I saw over the course of about a decade a pine forest on the east side of the Cascades (the dry side)  become mostly standing dead timber because of beetles.  Pretty sad to watch it spread and be able to do so little.  

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Tatetopa

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/senegal-is-planting-millions-of-mangrove-trees-to-fight-deforestation/

But Senegal is fighting back. It has planted 79 million mangrove trees, which will help protect vital arable land, preserve aquatic habitats and absorb around 500,000 tonnes of carbon over 20 years.

Apparently  mangroves are important economically to protect fisheries and coastal arable land used for rice.

 

Any Southern boys know what we are planting along the Gulf Coast and southern Atlantic to help with beach erosion?  Do we plant mangroves in Florida?

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Doug1o29
24 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I saw over the course of about a decade a pine forest on the east side of the Cascades (the dry side)  become mostly standing dead timber because of beetles.  Pretty sad to watch it spread and be able to do so little.  

Thinning pine stands before they are attacked is helpful.  Takes two or three years for them to become resistant.  Controlling dwarf-mistletoe also helps.  The Front Range has a bigger DMT problem than Oregon does.

Oregon.  No kidding?  I applied for a job at Medford.  Didn't get it.  Visited Klamath Falls (Where are the falls?).  Beautiful country.  Went out to Tillamook last spring.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29

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Doug1o29
16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/senegal-is-planting-millions-of-mangrove-trees-to-fight-deforestation/

But Senegal is fighting back. It has planted 79 million mangrove trees, which will help protect vital arable land, preserve aquatic habitats and absorb around 500,000 tonnes of carbon over 20 years.

Apparently  mangroves are important economically to protect fisheries and coastal arable land used for rice.

 

Any Southern boys know what we are planting along the Gulf Coast and southern Atlantic to help with beach erosion?  Do we plant mangroves in Florida?

Mangroves in Florida.  Cottonwoods most everywhere else.

In the US we have planted most plantable sites.  Seedling sales are falling off.  Will take a major effort to plant very much more.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29
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Hankenhunter

In British Columbia, first nations are heavily involved in tree planting. I have two huge willows in my yard that are harvested constantly for branches that drop during windy days. These branches are rooted then planted all over the place, especially along rivers and creeks. Willows are amazingly resilient, and make excellent shade trees to cool waterways. They (First Nations) are making a difference here.

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Doug1o29
1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

In British Columbia, first nations are heavily involved in tree planting. I have two huge willows in my yard that are harvested constantly for branches that drop during windy days. These branches are rooted then planted all over the place, especially along rivers and creeks. Willows are amazingly resilient, and make excellent shade trees to cool waterways. They (First Nations) are making a difference here.

There are two large willows on my family farm in Ohio that were planted by my grandfather for fence posts.  That ten-foot section of fence is the only part still standing.

Doug

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Hankenhunter
1 minute ago, Doug1o29 said:

There are two large willows on my family farm in Ohio that were planted by my grandfather for fence posts.  That ten-foot section of fence is the only part still standing.

Doug

Yeah, they're pretty amazing trees. I chopped some small green sticks up to use as row markers in my garden, and every one self rooted.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

Thinning pine stands before they are attacked is helpful.  Takes two or three years for them to become resistant.  Controlling dwarf-mistletoe also helps.  The Front Range has a bigger DMT problem than Oregon does.

Oregon.  No kidding?  I applied for a job at Medford.  Didn't get it.  Visited Klamath Falls (Where are the falls?).  Beautiful country.  Went out to Tillamook last spring.

Doug

You would probably love it out here.  Most of my work for Weyco was in and around Cottage Grove, Coos Bay, and Springfield.  They had a big pine mill down in K. Falls.  Springfield, Longview, Snoqualamie Falls and Everett were all big log mills that could cut a log five or six feet in diameter and 40 feet long. Coos Bay was a cant mill mainly for export. It is hard to reconcile being a tree-hugger and loving sawmills, but I do.  The beauty of the wood and the wonderful smell stays with you.  I get that on a smaller scape when I build furniture at home. but I still miss it.

 The Oregon State University in Corvallis has a Forestry Department  that is pretty well though of I believe. 

Come up and count some tree rings.

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

In British Columbia, first nations are heavily involved in tree planting. I have two huge willows in my yard that are harvested constantly for branches that drop during windy days. These branches are rooted then planted all over the place, especially along rivers and creeks. Willows are amazingly resilient, and make excellent shade trees to cool waterways. They (First Nations) are making a difference here.

I love willows, they are amazing as you say.

Get some willows about 2" in diameter and fourteen to sixteen feet long, strip the bark and use them for a sweat lodge framework or a shelter.  Tie the willows together with strips of bark you peeled off.  The bark comes off easy in the spring

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Hankenhunter
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

I love willows, they are amazing as you say.

Get some willows about 2" in diameter and fourteen to sixteen feet long, strip the bark and use them for a sweat lodge framework or a shelter.  Tie the willows together with strips of bark you peeled off.  The bark comes off easy in the spring

I also make a pretty decent rope from the bark also.

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and then
11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/senegal-is-planting-millions-of-mangrove-trees-to-fight-deforestation/

But Senegal is fighting back. It has planted 79 million mangrove trees, which will help protect vital arable land, preserve aquatic habitats and absorb around 500,000 tonnes of carbon over 20 years.

Apparently  mangroves are important economically to protect fisheries and coastal arable land used for rice.

 

Any Southern boys know what we are planting along the Gulf Coast and southern Atlantic to help with beach erosion?  Do we plant mangroves in Florida?

Some efforts have been made to plant and nurture sea oats.  Mixed results.  

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XenoFish

Here's an idea. Cremate everyone who dies. And instead of the normal grave, pour their ashes within that 6 foot hole, then plant a tree of some kind. This would create a Forest/Orchard of the Dead.

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Doug1o29
13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You would probably love it out here.  Most of my work for Weyco was in and around Cottage Grove, Coos Bay, and Springfield.  They had a big pine mill down in K. Falls.  Springfield, Longview, Snoqualamie Falls and Everett were all big log mills that could cut a log five or six feet in diameter and 40 feet long. Coos Bay was a cant mill mainly for export. It is hard to reconcile being a tree-hugger and loving sawmills, but I do.  The beauty of the wood and the wonderful smell stays with you.  I get that on a smaller scape when I build furniture at home. but I still miss it.

 The Oregon State University in Corvallis has a Forestry Department  that is pretty well though of I believe. 

Come up and count some tree rings.

I'm an ex-forester.   I was much-impressed by my trip out there last spring.

Doug

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Doug1o29
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Here's an idea. Cremate everyone who dies. And instead of the normal grave, pour their ashes within that 6 foot hole, then plant a tree of some kind. This would create a Forest/Orchard of the Dead.

It's being done.  "Memorial groves" are big.  But dedicate the grove as a whole, not individual trees.  Hard to explain to donors why Grandma's tree died.

Doug

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Phaeton80

You know Doug youre brainwashing me (and probably others) with your name here.. Everytime I read a post of yours, which is unnecessarily signed every single time as if youre writing a note to someone in the class, I am forced to read your name. Please, I dont want to close my eyes tonight and see nothing but the name 'Doug' sparkle all over the place.. We all know your name is Doug, allright? For Pete's sake man..  let it go!  *grabs Doug by the shoulders shaking him firmly*

:D

Edited by Phaeton80
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Desertrat56
On 9/12/2019 at 9:09 AM, Still Waters said:

A historic global agreement aimed at halting deforestation has failed, according to a report.

An assessment of the New York Declaration on Forests (NYDF) says it has failed to deliver on key pledges.

Launched at the 2014 UN climate summit, it aimed to half deforestation by 2020, and halt it by 2030.

Yet deforestation continues at an alarming rate and threatens to prevent the world from preventing dangerous climate change, experts have said.

The critique, compiled by the NYDF Assessment Partners (a coalition of 25 organisations), painted a bleak picture of how the world's forests continue to be felled.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49679883

Hasan Minhaj has a Patriot Act episode about this.  Specifically in south america.

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Desertrat56
On 9/12/2019 at 1:28 PM, Doug1o29 said:

The "biggest" culprits are the smallest:  private citizens clearing land for firewood for cooking and heating.  Mostly Third World.

Insect damage in drought and temperature-weakened forests is another.  Mostly, it's bark beetles.  Warmer weather means the brood doesn't die off in the winter.  Longer growing seasons mean more generations per year.  Drought means the trees can't produce as much pitch and resins to repel attack.  Mountain pine beetle epidemics have been on-going in the Rocky Mountains since the late 1970s.  Ips have wiped out half a million acres of pinyons in the Four Corners.  And southern pines are under attack by the Southern Pine Beetle.  That's all climate-related.

Doug

No, it is big business taking out huge swaths of rain forest.  private citizens are not doing the damage that the big corporations in south america are.

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Doug1o29
18 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, it is big business taking out huge swaths of rain forest.  private citizens are not doing the damage that the big corporations in south america are.

Most of South America's deforestation is started by independent loggers stealing timber - illegal logging.  That is followed up by homesteaders who clear off what is left to plant corn.  Elsewhere in the Third World, the biggest use of wood is charcoal for cooking and heating.  The big companies aren't to blame for everything.

Doug

P.S.:  some Brazilian Indians have found a way to deal with logging trespass.  They're head-hunters.

Doug

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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

Most of South America's deforestation is started by independent loggers stealing timber - illegal logging.  That is followed up by homesteaders who clear off what is left to plant corn.  Elsewhere in the Third World, the biggest use of wood is charcoal for cooking and heating.  The big companies aren't to blame for everything.

Doug

P.S.:  some Brazilian Indians have found a way to deal with logging trespass.  They're head-hunters.

Doug

Yes but right now their biggest battle is against one or two large companies infringing on their territory.  They were able to deal with the people you describe but they are finding it hard to fight bulldozers and mercenary armies.  Your information is about 10 years out of date.

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Doug1o29
52 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes but right now their biggest battle is against one or two large companies infringing on their territory.  They were able to deal with the people you describe but they are finding it hard to fight bulldozers and mercenary armies.  Your information is about 10 years out of date.

Forests recover from logging.  Sand Springs Oklahoma's Ancient Forest Preserve was logged in 1911.  But nobody could tell that without a tree-ring analysis.  In another hundred years, if protected, those logged areas will have recovered.

The big problem, though, is climate change.  The pinyon die-off in the Four Corners is permanent.  So is the loss of whitebark pines in Wyoming.  Around the world, forests are in trouble.

Big companies probably do play a role.  They are the markets for those loggers.  To end the logging, boycott those products.  Hit them in the pocketbook; it's their most-sensitive spot.

Mercenary armies exist only because Brazil's government does not think indigenous people's rights shoulod be protected.  Want to change that?  Meddle in Brazil's presidential elections - send money to groups opposed to him.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29

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