Women better at hiding Autism signs?

[Eldorado]

"Women may not be diagnosed with autism as frequently as men because they are better at hiding the common signs of the condition, according to new research.

"Some autistic people use strategies to hide traits associated with the condition during social interactions, a phenomenon called social camouflaging. Scientists involved in the study say raising awareness of camouflaging among doctors could help reduce the number of missed autism diagnoses."

Full report at the UK Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/13/women-better-than-men-at-disguising-autism-symptoms

And the UK Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7462415/Women-better-hiding-autism-symptoms-men-study-says.html

Abstract: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334563957_Gender_differences_in_self-reported_camouflaging_in_autistic_and_non-autistic_adults

[HandsomeGorilla]

I had to more or less train myself to act more normal, so I don't think it effects women to a more severe degree. I think it depends a lot more on the environment you grow up around. You really wouldn't expect me to be 'on the spectrum' unless you were around me 24/7, and I know several others, male and female, who are the same way. 

[littlebrowndragon]

Hello, I'm new to this forum.

I have heard it said that 95% of adults are autistic to some degree or another.  Actually, I would say that 100% of the populace is to some degree autistic.  As to whether women are not diagnosed as frequently as men because they are better at hiding autism, well, I'm not sure.  In the first instance I think that, in general, men will show more traits of autism than women simply because men are different from women.  This because men generally have less to do with the home and with bringing up the children, therefore they do not develop their communication skills to the same level that women must do.  

For example, I recently attended an out-patients' clinic at my local hospital.  The (male) doctor, when I entered the consulting room, did not look at me, did not introduce himself, did not tell me why I was there (my appointment letter did not tell me why I had to attend out-patients either).  For almost the entire consultation, he had his eyes glued to his computer screen and asked me questions which he read from the screen and ticked boxes on the screen according to my answers.  Anyone, male or female, who is forced to work in this way, who is forced to stare at a computer screen instead of at the person s/he is talking to, must surely eventually develop traits of autism.  The nurse that attended to the consultant's patients was, on the other hand, a far better communicator.  That, I believe, because she had more personal contact with patients.  Actually, I think nurses are better communicators generally than doctors, as I found out during a recent stay in hospital.  The best nurse there, as far as I was concerned, was, in fact, a male nurse.  In particular, he had a good sense of humour.   That lightened the atmosphere in the place a great deal and humour goes a long way when communicating with people.

So I think the degree of autism that people  exhibit is in part to do with gender but also to do with what job a person has and how they do that job.  As to whether men or women are better at hiding autistic traits, well, who really knows?

 

PS: as an afterthought, surely if people, men or women, can hide their autism, does that  not imply that the people they are socially disguising themselves from are also autistic?  Surely anyone who is healthy i.e. who is not autistic, could tell if the person they are talking to IS autistic?   

Edited September 15, 2019 by littlebrowndragon
adding an afterthought

[aztek]

1 hour ago, littlebrowndragon said:

Hello, I'm new to this forum.

I have heard it said that 95% of adults are autistic to some degree or another.  Actually, I would say that 100% of the populace is to some degree autistic.  As to whether women are not diagnosed as frequently as men because they are better at hiding autism, well, I'm not sure.  In the first instance I think that, in general, men will show more traits of autism than women simply because men are different from women.  This because men generally have less to do with the home and with bringing up the children, therefore they do not develop their communication skills to the same level that women must do.  

For example, I recently attended an out-patients' clinic at my local hospital.  The (male) doctor, when I entered the consulting room, did not look at me, did not introduce himself, did not tell me why I was there (my appointment letter did not tell me why I had to attend out-patients either).  For almost the entire consultation, he had his eyes glued to his computer screen and asked me questions which he read from the screen and ticked boxes on the screen according to my answers.  Anyone, male or female, who is forced to work in this way, who is forced to stare at a computer screen instead of at the person s/he is talking to, must surely eventually develop traits of autism.  The nurse that attended to the consultant's patients was, on the other hand, a far better communicator.  That, I believe, because she had more personal contact with patients.  Actually, I think nurses are better communicators generally than doctors, as I found out during a recent stay in hospital.  The best nurse there, as far as I was concerned, was, in fact, a male nurse.  In particular, he had a good sense of humour.   That lightened the atmosphere in the place a great deal and humour goes a long way when communicating with people.

So I think the degree of autism that people  exhibit is in part to do with gender but also to do with what job a person has and how they do that job.  As to whether men or women are better at hiding autistic traits, well, who really knows?

 

PS: as an afterthought, surely if people, men or women, can hide their autism, does that  not imply that the people they are socially disguising themselves from are also autistic?  Surely anyone who is healthy i.e. who is not autistic, could tell if the person they are talking to IS autistic?   

since by your own admision 100% are autistic to some degree, you last question is invalid.  

[Sir Smoke aLot]

There were cases of children being pressured and diagnosed with autism or some other disorders and after court investigation (on parents request) it was determined that kids were healthy. It did left mark on them, being looked at for no reason for years. Some of them committed suicide.

Does autism, as proposed by institutions, even exist?

[aztek]

my friend has a kid who is autistic, i would not be able to  tell if she is autistic, but i can tell right away she has development issues, and she is not like regular kids. but whether it is autism or something else i wouldn't tell,  but her mother i'm sure would see it in others, since she knows  the symptoms.

[littlebrowndragon]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 10:10 PM, aztek said:

since by your own admision 100% are autistic to some degree, you last question is invalid.  

No, I do not think it is invalid.  Just because there are no healthy people out there does not imply that a healthy person could not spot someone with autism.  I do think the logic is ok.  However, since no one in this world is not autistic, then my question is unlikely to be answered and is therefore redundant.

[spartan max2]

@Piney

Interesting thread. I actually never met a female aspie. 

[littlebrowndragon]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 10:15 PM, aztek said:

my friend has a kid who is autistic, i would not be able to  tell if she is autistic, but i can tell right away she has development issues, and she is not like regular kids. but whether it is autism or something else i wouldn't tell,  but her mother i'm sure would see it in others, since she knows  the symptoms.

 

A dead giveaway with people who are autistic is eye contact.  An autistic person may, for example look at a person's mouth when talking to them rather than at their eyes.  I often meet people who, when talking to me, do not even look at me at all.  They may look away and half close their eyes.   That is an indicator of autism.  In my local library one time I saw one of the librarians talking to a young woman.  The young woman did not look at the librarian.  Worse, the young woman's eyes were all over the place, sliding around from here to there, from here to there except, as I said, at the librarian's face.  That young woman showed a high degree of autistic behaviour.  Autistic people are highly emotional - and since we live in a society that encourages over emotionalism, then just about everyone has that trait.  Lack of awareness of others is another  trait in autism.  Someone who only talks about themselves, for example, may be autistic.  Obsessive behaviour e.g. being totally immersed in the one interest e.g. computers. 

 

Any child or adult who is autistic will have developmental issues, whether they know it or not.  For example, if one never learns to communicate with other people, then this creates all sorts of other mental problems.

 

A colleague of mine had a severely autistic child.  She had to have all the glass in the windows in the house replaced by something unbreakable, for when her son had a rage, he became really violent.  In the company of calm people her son became much calmer.  When she brought him to my house he spent the time running uncontrollably around the living room.  I tried to stay calm, hoping he wouldn't damage anything.  His mother told me later that he had actually been quite calm that day and this I took to be as a result of my own calm demeanour.

 

[littlebrowndragon]

6 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

@Piney

Interesting thread. I actually never met a female aspie. 

 

Aspie?  Explain, please?

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, littlebrowndragon said:

 

Aspie?  Explain, please?

Aspie = slang for someone with Asperger's Syndrome  lol.

Me and Piney both have it.

Edited September 23, 2019 by spartan max2

[spartan max2]

On 9/15/2019 at 5:11 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

There were cases of children being pressured and diagnosed with autism or some other disorders and after court investigation (on parents request) it was determined that kids were healthy. It did left mark on them, being looked at for no reason for years. Some of them committed suicide.

Does autism, as proposed by institutions, even exist?

Yes sir,

I understand the skepticism. But when you have it, you definitely know something's different. 

It was impossible for me to look anyone in their eyes for the first 20 some years of my life. Even know if I don't remind myself I start looking away lol.

Edited September 23, 2019 by spartan max2

[Piney]

29 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Aspie = slang for someone with Asperger's Syndrome  lol.

Me and Piney both have it.

Your a Aspie, I have a full blown chromosomal disorder. 

[Piney]

37 minutes ago, littlebrowndragon said:

A dead giveaway with people who are autistic is eye contact. 

My grandfather broke me of that and I taught my son the same technique. The problem is it looks like a "murderous glare" so you scare the pants off of people.

[aztek]

8 hours ago, littlebrowndragon said:

No, I do not think it is invalid.  Just because there are no healthy people out there does not imply that a healthy person could not spot someone with autism.  I do think the logic is ok.  However, since no one in this world is not autistic, then my question is unlikely to be answered and is therefore redundant.

lmao, that is most certainly  wrong, as far as  the world i live in.

according to autism sociaety.org only 1% of population has autism. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by aztek

[Golden Duck]

12 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

@Piney

Interesting thread. I actually never met a female aspie. 

Apparently, Great Thunberg has been diagnosed.

[+Hammerclaw]

Autism is such a blanket term covering a host of perceived maladies, the challenge is finding someone who doesn't fit one or more definitions. Also, overcoming one or more of these handicaps isn't necessarily deliberately camouflaging it. 

[Bed of chaos]

I think with some kids it's easily noticed (not all) my old co workers son was autistic. It was bad (8-9 yrs old, he couldnt even speak) and was on numerous hardcore medications.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

On 9/23/2019 at 4:40 PM, spartan max2 said:

Yes sir,

I understand the skepticism. But when you have it, you definitely know something's different. 

It was impossible for me to look anyone in their eyes for the first 20 some years of my life. Even know if I don't remind myself I start looking away lol.

First i must say that i respect your experience and all which concern it but to me such 'behavior' or feeling doesn't sound problematic. Seems to be some mix of politeness with dose of shyness, emotion which is strong in some, weak in others and so on.

I believe it's got nothing to do with being disorder and that it's just natural and normal as anything else. Every individual has his own fight, so to say. You mentioned one aspect here, maybe there are more ways in which problem manifests but this is how i feel about it. Someone just made a theory and gave name for that.

To me personally, that which you speak about is behavior and emotions which are not so rare, especially among teenagers and young people. There are people in my life whom i deeply respect and sometimes, in their presence and depending on circumstances - i feel the same thing, maybe for different reasons but the emotion could be pretty much the same. Especially if there were my own mistakes in past where i failed them or did wrong things so also guilt makes me to get in fight with such emotions. I do not like people staring too much, staring is only good when it's directed to rear view  Maybe i could be diagnosed with 'autism' too, there are so many inner fights i go through on daily basis.

Now i wonder about what is behind those emotions? Is it our character, our natural virtues and flaws which drive them, or is it some kind of disorder or autism?