Plato's Atlantis, a Prophecy Cloathed in Myth

[+Pettytalk]

Exploring Plato's writing to attempt to, plausibly, show the true Metaphysical content, and the ultimate scope for the story of Atlantis. This scope, in essence, is one of Divine prophecy, as I believe it to be. In particular, Plato, writing through the inspiration he received from his master, Socrates, who was himself directly, first-hand, Divinely inspired, embedded a revelation of specific future events. This Divine prophecy is meant to demonstrate and prove the existence of the one and only Father and Creator of all, as revealed in Plato's Timaeus dialogue.

I'm only aware of a couple of others who have gotten a whiff that Plato's Atlantis had something to do with prophetic revelation. However no one has really noticed just how and what it is really meant to show prophetically, that I'm aware of.

If anyone here is aware of any work that is out there, which tries to connect Plato's Atlantis with Divine prophecy, I would appreciate a reference to it, and also a link to the work, if it's on the internet.

For instance, this is one those that I'm aware of.

https://www.academia.edu/6336088/ATLANTIS_AS_THE_BEAST_IN_REVELATIONS

ATLANTIS: THE BEAST IN REVELATIONS.

There are many interpretations of the Book of Revelations, and about the “End of Days” which many say we are either now in or are entering. I am fairly well read on most of what has been written on this scripture. Yet no where have I ever read anything like my own personal interpretation of what it has to say and to predict. So I feel obligated to put it down on paper and publish this essay, so that it might be known to anyone who finds the time to read it on the web. With each translation of the text, the meaning changes slightly. Over time the words take on different meaning, especially when the original translation is hundreds of years old, (as in the King James Version). Language is constantly in flux. Here is how the translation has changed in the New American Standard Bible in just a few years: First, here is the latest translation with relative parts highlighted: Revelation 13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

[Piney]

Quote

With each translation of the text, the meaning changes slightly. Over time the words take on different meaning, especially when the original translation is hundreds of years old, (as in the King James Version).Language is constantly in flux.

This is not how translations work. The King James Version was a translation of the Latin Vulgate which had it's own mistakes. A translation of a translation compounds mistakes. Then scholars went back over the original text and caught the mistakes in newer versions.

The most accurate translation among academics and the one recommended by the Harvard Divinity School, Princeton Seminary and the University of Pennsylvania is the 'Jerusalem Bible' whose text was translated by linguists, theologians and Rabbinical scholars who actually understand and made a lifelong study of the languages used in the original text. Whereas the NIV was translated with the idea to make the Old and New Testaments more agreeable with each other as to Abrahamic Law and prophecies concerning the Messiah and made purposeful mistakes. 

Words in ancient languages only take on "new meaning" when the translator wishes the interpretation to fit his own biases. Not because "language is constantly in flux". 

[Piney]

The next mistake in this paper is it states that there is Hindu and Buddhist documents to sunken land called "Mu". Yet there is no reference to any Hindu or Buddhist text because it doesn't exist. Mu was invented by Theosophists in the 19th Century. The Pacific Islanders' (Malayo-Polynesians)  initial civilization was in Southeast Asia (Formosa/Malaysia). The archaeological sites of it can still be found due to their oral histories pointing them out. They have no legend about a "sunken continent". 

The final mistake is this document is unsigned with no references. Which a academic scholar would never do and the writing style is yours. So fess up. 

[+Pettytalk]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

The final mistake is this document is unsigned with no references. Which a academic scholar would never do and the writing style is yours. So fess up. 

Hey chief, did you scout the link in the OP? https://www.academia.edu/6336088/ATLANTIS_AS_THE_BEAST_IN_REVELATIONS 

And I did not say that I agreed with DeRosa, who is the one that wrote that essay, and of which I posted only an excerpt. I merely pointed it out as one where Plato's Atlantis is tied to prophecy.

If you had taken the time to read the OP, instead of quickly jumping to wanting to scalp me, you would not be stating this nonsense about being my style of writing. DeRosa's essay is not even remotely relating anything of what I propose for Plato's Atlantis, apart from the one solitary disconnected tie to the End Times.

But still, thanks for the haircut you gave DeRosa. And you may want to give him a shave as well.

• Michael Joseph DeRosa

 

Anthropology

+13

Michael J. DeRosa is a graduate of the University of Bridgeport with a B.A. in composition, and graduate work at the Julliard School of Music.  He has been a teacher of general education, drama, music, film and other subjects in private, public and performing arts schools for over 40 years.  He is also a published novelist, screenwriter, and teleplay

[Piney]

17 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Hey chief, did you scout the link in the OP? https://www.academia.edu/6336088/ATLANTIS_AS_THE_BEAST_IN_REVELATIONS 

 

I read the link in the OP but my browser wasn't giving me the author.  Thanks for the second link and using the Indian version of the "N" word though.

17 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

If you had taken the time to read the OP, instead of quickly jumping to wanting to scalp me, you would not be stating this nonsense about being my style of writing. DeRosa's essay is not even remotely relating anything of what I propose for Plato's Atlantis, apart from the one solitary disconnected tie to the End Times.

 We took whole heads. 

17 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Michael J. DeRosa is a graduate of the University of Bridgeport with a B.A. in composition, and graduate work at the Julliard School of Music.  He has been a teacher of general education, drama, music, film and other subjects in private, public and performing arts schools for over 40 years.  He is also a published novelist, screenwriter, and teleplay

Well, you have a lot in common. He's not a Classicist, Theologian or Linguist either. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Piney
**** Atlantis

[+Pettytalk]

18 minutes ago, Piney said:

I read the link in the OP but my browser wasn't giving me the author.  Thanks for the second link and using the Indian version of the "N" word though.

 We took whole heads. 

Well, you have a lot in common. He's not a Classicist, Theologian or Linguist either. 

If you practiced a little humbleness you would not lose your head with me. And chief was meant as like, chief editor, since you were assessing and critiquing an essay and its writing style. I have very close friends who are part native Americans, and had one who was fool blood. Therefore take that wrong thought out of your head.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Pettytalk

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Pettytalk said:

If you practiced a little humbleness you would not lose your head with me. And chief was meant as like, chief editor, since you were assessing and critiquing an essay and its writing style. I have very close friends who are part native Americans, and had one who was fool blood. Therefore take that wrong thought out of your head.

Full blood! 

There is no such thing. Being Native is being part of a tribal community. I always did like the George Reeves Superman serial though. 

[onlookerofmayhem]

10 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

And chief was meant as like, chief editor, since you were assessing and critiquing an essay and its writing style.

bull****. 

And scalp you meant he wanted to sell you his extra polo tickets for a 200% markup. Right?

[Golden Duck]

53 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

bull****. 

And scalp you meant he wanted to sell you his extra polo tickets for a 200% markup. Right?

Good thing he didn't follow up with "Dick Tracy calling Joe Jitsu!"

 

[+Pettytalk]

To stay on topic I'll disregard all the commotion outside the subject, as the topic is Atlantis and its essence as prophetic revelation for our times.

Like all prophecy, it takes time in order to start to take shape, since it's a revelation of future events, And sometimes it's a revelation about the very distant future. The prophecy is stated in a way that at the time given it can never be understood in its details. And that is the way it is meant to work, since besides the usual warning aspect it has, it's also meant to provide evidence of the all-knowing almighty Father and Creator, the absolute Governor of the universe, seen and unseen.

Prophecy, when first given in writing, is shrouded in symbolism mostly. The symbolism can relate to past, current, or future events and entities, and usually it is a combination of what was, what is, and what will be.

As the events of a prophecy start to ripen for the times intended, some understanding of the prophecy can be achieved. But it's usually an incomplete and mostly erroneous understanding. Because, as usual, there is only one source that can accurately, and fully understand the prophecy, or the combination of prophetic revelations, as is the case with Plato's Atlantis, since it is intertwined with the New Testament's last book, the Revelation of John.

President Trump is currently 45th of Atlantis' Atlas' line of descendants, and the leader of the country that built the world trading system.

Plato's Critias: Now Atlas had a numerous and honourable family, and they retained the kingdom, the eldest son handing it on to his eldest for many generations; and they had such an amount of wealth as was never before possessed by kings and potentates, and is not likely ever to be again, and they were furnished with everything which they needed, both in the city and country. For because of the greatness of their empire many things were brought to them from foreign countries, and the island itself provided most of what was required by them for the uses of life.

For instance, mainly in Revelation 16, 17 and 18 we have, in symbolism, some of the clear indications that the USA is really meant to be the woman who sits on the Beast. Since the USA is the country that built the world trading system, the following from REV 18 is telling us that Babylon the Great is the leading trader of the world.

REV 18: “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves.
14“They will say, ‘The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your luxury and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.’ 15The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment.

Plato's Critias: Leaving the palace and passing out across the three harbours, you came to a wall which began at the sea and went all round: this was everywhere distant fifty stadia from the largest zone or harbour, and enclosed the whole, the ends meeting at the mouth of the channel which led to the sea. The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human voices, and din and clatter of all sorts night and day.

REV 16: Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found.

Plato's Timaeus: But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.  

And with the above we have only scratched the surface, as it is said.

[+Pettytalk]

Let us start to look at the facts Plato provided to us for Atlantis for now, leaving the facts about Ancient Athens for later.

Now, it is very evident by now that there will be scoffers who will be very cynical about the facts, since these cynics are already biased in their ideas about there being no supernatural forces in existence. And as fa as cherry-picking from the story of Atlantis, let us pick only those ripe and juicy, real cherries, the ones Plato intended us to pick.

Then I also see some resistance will be voiced by those less cynical, as to them they will not be facts, as no doubt they will attribute the facts to mere coincidences, if they do concede any facts at all within the story of Atlantis. But they won't, as they will, with their last dying breath go to their graves uttering the word, allegory.

Nevertheless facts are facts, even if they seem coincidental. But I'm certain that the cynics, no matter the degree of their cynicism, when faced with facts, will use every tool and trick in the book of cynicism to say that it is not so. Why? Because they cannot, on any terms, accept the idea that God had a hand in writing the story of Atlantis.

With that said, let us begin to numerate the facts on this thread, coincidental or not. And I'm going to present one or two facts at a time with each post on the facts, to allow a little time for the input from those who may want to express their opinions, pro or con. Probably a 24 hrs period will be sufficient, before moving on.

Here will start with fact number one, finding the Atlantis landmass said to be greater in extent than Libya and Asia put together.

From Plato's Timaeus and Critias, since the massive size of Atlantis mentioned in the Timaeus is plainly reemphasized in the Critias. 

Timaeus: ….and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together,.....

Critias: ...the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia.....,

Fact 1. There is a landmass west, and in front of the straight of Gibraltar which is greater than Asia and Libya combined. And by the term “greater than” this landmass is factually greater than to whatever was considered to be Asia and Libya in Plato's times. Or even in Solon's time, to please those that may actually believe it was an Egyptian story. The landmass is the Americas, an "Island" separate and distinct from the then 3 known continents of Europe, Asia, and Libya, and which was totally unknown to exist to those of the classical times of Plato, Solon, or the Egyptian priests of Saiis mentioned in the story. The Americas are definitely, in extent, greater than the combined Libya and Asia known in those classical times.

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:25 AM, Pettytalk said:

Hey chief,

 

On 9/18/2019 at 11:25 AM, Pettytalk said:

instead of quickly jumping to wanting to scalp me,

 

On 9/18/2019 at 11:56 AM, Pettytalk said:

If you practiced a little humbleness you would not lose your head with me. And chief was meant as like, chief editor, since you were assessing and critiquing an essay and its writing style. I have very close friends who are part native Americans, and had one who was fool blood. Therefore take that wrong thought out of your head.

Chief and scalp? I'm not entirely sure that your poor choice of words is unintentional as you claim. Perhaps you should practice some of your prescribed humbleness yourself and just apologise.

[+Pettytalk]

45 minutes ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

 

 

Chief and scalp? I'm not entirely sure that your poor choice of words is unintentional as you claim. Perhaps you should practice some of your prescribed humbleness yourself and just apologise.

I appreciate your concern and opinion, but it was intended as I explained it to him already. Besides if any apologies were in order, I'm due 100, at least, from Piney for all his intentional insults on my integrity, religious beliefs, and personal attacks to just about everything I post. I hope you are able to see his choice of words too. And he is not the only one that uses those choice words. 

In any event, you are an administrator here, and as such you have authority over what is posted. If you feel that I have said anything inappropriate, then you should take whatever action you are allowed to take. However, I will apologize to you for the appearance, if you feel that I did not seem genuine on how I used those terms. And I'll try to put more thought on the future use of words, as to the possibility that they may pose in being misunderstood, if I will be allowed to retain the privilege of posting on this forum..

Respectfully,

 

[Tatetopa]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:28 PM, Pettytalk said:

President Trump is currently 45th of Atlantis' Atlas' line of descendants, and the leader of the country that built the world trading system.

Fact  #1:  The United States did not build the world trading system.  The current one was built by Europeans: English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, and Dutch mostly.  America was a colony and a result not a creator of a world trading system.

There is no benefit to me for making fun of anyone's religious beliefs.  I have my own.

Some people put stock in prophecy.  Fine.

One would think that a useful or accurate prophecy would fit the facts.   Twisting facts to make them correlate to a prophecy does not make an accurate prophecy.

You start a thread and put up a posting, then when someone points out some logical holes you fall back on, "Hey, that is not me, I didn't say I believed that."  Then why did you start a thread with something you are not willing to defend?

Then you put in a disclaimer that anyone who contests your version of the facts is a cynic or willfully ignorant.

Finally you fall back on,"Everybody is picking on me."

Pettytalk, I have seen a lot of your posts on a number of topics, and you have been around a while.  You know what is likely to happen when a bunch of eclectic scholars and fact checkers get a hold of a half baked proposal.  They are going to pick at the obvious holes.  If you are a scholar working on a theory, that might be a service, you can go back and restudy your sources and refine your proposal.  If accuracy is important to you, it might be a blessing.  If you want to cherish a belief and not have it questioned, that is OK too.  Just don't make a post out of it and expect it to be received without question or comment..

 

 

[Tatetopa]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:56 AM, Pettytalk said:

If you practiced a little humbleness you would not lose your head with me. And chief was meant as like, chief editor, since you were assessing and critiquing an essay and its writing style. I have very close friends who are part native Americans, and had one who was fool blood. Therefore take that wrong thought out of your head.

I have friends who are religious scholars who read the New Testament in Greek so I will not make fun of your religion.  I would say to you humbleness is a virtue that all wise people could cultivate.  Second, examine your courage.  Your chief comment and the scalping reference can not be explained away.  Just own it, apologize and learn from the experience. 

[Tatetopa]

[+Pettytalk]

To put some clarity into the thread I started, I offer this.

With this thread I had not intended to present something like facts and figures that can be reviewed and checked for exact correctness or errors. What I'm proposing about Atlantis and the association with prophecy is a personal, and strange perspective as to what I have come to understand of Plato's Atlantis. And all is based on my personal feelings and intuitions, which have been elicited, slowly, and gradually over the last 10 years period. It is mostly based on plausibility, and conjecture. .

I'm not intending for anyone here to take it as gospel truth. Because, clearly, and specifically, it's nowhere mentioned in the gospel, and that is the truth.

Rather, knowing some of the regular crowd on this forum, and how they feel on these kind of topics, especially as pointing out the lack of evidence, I was expecting that most would be taking it, as they say, only with a grain of salt. The only thing more I'm expecting is a little consideration, and lots of indulgence. In other words, please, don't hold my feet to the fire, as I've not lit any.

And don't think that I don't appreciate comments, especially if i seem to be too far off the target. For instance @Tatetopa had this to say.." Fact  #1:  The United States did not build the world trading system.  The current one was built by Europeans: English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, and Dutch mostly.  America was a colony and a result not a creator of a world trading system."  Which was tendered as a rebuttal to something you did not agree with in my initial post, this. " President Trump is currently 45th of Atlantis' Atlas' line of descendants, and the leader of the country that built the world trading system."

By world trading system, I was referring to the current system, the one that was initiated just after WW2, and spearheaded by the USA. The USA is considered the the leader of the WTO.

The World Trade Organization (WTO): U.S.Participation at Risk?

U.S. leadership

U.S. historical leadership of the global trading system has ensured a seat at the table to shape the agenda in important areas that both advance and defend U.S. interests. The United States played a major role shaping GATT/WTO negotiations and rule making, many of which reflect U.S. laws and norms.

https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=813805

The attachment is from an article by Ernest H. Preeg contained in the Washington Journal, and headlined as, The U.S. leadership role in world trade: Past, present, and future.

[ThereWeAreThen]

Misinterpreting a made up story doesn't make a prophecy. Nothing can make a prophecy cause they don't exist. So with that being said I can actually see a correlation between atlantis and the word prophecy.

[Piney]

3 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Misinterpreting a made up story doesn't make a prophecy. Nothing can make a prophecy cause they don't exist. So with that being said I can actually see a correlation between atlantis and the word prophecy.

@Pettytalk  is actually projecting his own religious fears on the allegory. His whole theology is based on fear, punishment and reward and it's compounded by his own cowardice which is shown by both his false bravado and bullying tendencies. This is compounded by his pathological liar personality creating this "I'm a reincarnation of Plato" claim.

You made both racist and bias remarks towards me right out of the gate. I never reported them. Just waited for to bury yourself. 

[ThereWeAreThen]

5 hours ago, Piney said:

@Pettytalk  is actually projecting his own religious fears on the allegory. His whole theology is based on fear, punishment and reward and it's compounded by his own cowardice which is shown by both his false bravado and bullying tendencies. This is compounded by his pathological liar personality creating this "I'm a reincarnation of Plato" claim.

You made both racist and bias remarks towards me right out of the gate. I never reported them. Just waited for to bury yourself. 

I got a feeling most believers are religious but you're 100% right.

[Alchopwn]

On 9/22/2019 at 7:39 AM, Tatetopa said:

I suspect this is part of why most Norwegians are introverts these days.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

9 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

I suspect this is part of why most Norwegians are introverts these days.

Unlike their super friendly southern neighbours. 

[Alchopwn]

15 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Unlike their super friendly southern neighbours. 

I'm assuming you don't mean the Danes? 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I'm assuming you don't mean the Danes? 

[Alchopwn]

11 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I mean the Germans are super friendly.  They show up out of nowhere and make themselves at home like they own the place.  Such extroverts.  The life of the party (and we all know which party).

Edited September 27, 2019 by Alchopwn