Trump’s Loose Lips with Ukraine

[RavenHawk]

11 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Trump is definitely going to go spare when he reads this.

https://www.fark.com/goto/10582897/www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-record-support-for-trump-impeachment%3FICID%3Dref_fark

Even Breibart is growing a spine and moving away from trumpeting trump. 

You believe just anything in print, especially if it espouses your hatred.  You do understand that Conservatives are more likely to decline taking a poll, even if the person at the other end claims they're from Fox?  Fox took a sampling of 1000 people but how many did they have to call before getting a response?  Now I've said this before, but Conservatives want impeachment to proceed too.  We see that there is nothing that can stop it, the Left has been pushing for it since the beginning.  I think most Conservatives think that the only way to stop it is for the Left to stick their necks out.  Let the Left embarrass themselves.  That will ensure the President's reelection.  But you are so hate filled that you can't see it.  So he's going to push your buttons.  You're the most effective part of his campaign.  But the really best thing is that if the House votes for impeachment, the President gets Due Process.  A pesky little inconvenience from the Constitution.  No more of this double secret probation crap.  The Left was learning from their debacle with Blasey Ford but their gambit in treason to remove the President has fallen short again.  So I say bring on impeachment!!!

[Raptor Witness]

Trump  is in full panic mode, even getting breathless in his recent news conferences, he is so rattled.

 The walls are closing in. 

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

 

 

ukraine-president-says-trump-didnt-seek-to-blackmail-him

Quote

Ukraine president says Trump didn't seek to blackmail him

 

Natalia Zinets, Pavel Polityuk

3 Min Read

 

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Thursday that U.S. President Donald Trump did not seek to blackmail him during a phone call in July or a meeting in September.

 

This means that Democrats that wish to impeach President Trump are simply using a smear campaign TO INFLUENCE THE 2020 ELECTION

Guilty - as charged.

[RAyMO]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

 

ukraine-president-says-trump-didnt-seek-to-blackmail-him

 

This means that Democrats that wish to impeach President Trump are simply using a smear campaign TO INFLUENCE THE 2020 ELECTION

Guilty - as charged.

Whether he attempted to blackmail him or not in the view of president of Ukraine - is totally irrelevant. His misdemeanor is using his position as President to influence / encourage  a foreign leader to find dirt on a political opponent. it is straight forward abuse of power.

It would be clear cut in any other mature democracy. Why is the USA different, is it acceptable strategy to involve foreign leaders in your re-election campaigns?

ETA what else could the Ukraine President say - tell his home audience that he is a presidential weakling and allowed the Trump to bully him. There was no way he can admit he felt pressured - it would be the end of him politically.

Edited October 10, 2019 by RAyMO

[RoofGardener]

Please, do carry on. It's fascinating. 

[odas]

29 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Please, do carry on. It's fascinating. 

Trump is refusing UK's request to extradict a US diplomats wife who is in fault of the death of a young man, Harry Dunn.

This is how much he respects your country and their citizens.

Btw. after the crash she was basicly smuggled out of the UK.

Enjoy your popcorn.

[Helen of Annoy]

18 hours ago, joc said:

I take it Croatia is a Socialist Country?

You should be able to inform yourself about basic facts from recent history, if you want to comment any political matter. 

My country lost many good people, some of which were very dear to me, in defence against the aggressor that was officially 'socialist'. It was 25+ years ago, but it is still very much going on in my brain. 

When my country declared independence we also freed ourselves from mandatory self-governing socialism (official definition of the system ex-Yugoslavia had mandated by its constitution). We are free to shape our economic and political model as the majority of population decides, through elections. This means that each will freely vote for parties they find close to their expectations and beliefs. Nothing's forbidden, except political options that would be unconstitutional (those who openly instigate racial, national and religious hatred). 

In other words, yes, there are socialist, social-democratic and related parties in Croatia and everyone sane is absolutely fine with that. You simply don't vote for them if you don't like them. 

The funniest thing - also the most logical thing, since the same phenomenon happened across Europe - is that these few pro-Russians and anti-Europeans we had embarrass themselves belong to right and sudden 'independent' and 'populist' options. They crashed and burned so pathetically I still have fits of laughter when I remember their attempts to woo Croatia the way it's possible to woo Americans. But, there are political figures who don't openly express any pro-Russian or anti-European sentiment, but whose lack of loyalty, patriotism and moral is so spectacular they are guaranteed to betray the country the moment they are given a chance. Which is why they won't be given such chance. 

 

Back on topic now, in my next post.     

[Helen of Annoy]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

 

ukraine-president-says-trump-didnt-seek-to-blackmail-him

 

This means that Democrats that wish to impeach President Trump are simply using a smear campaign TO INFLUENCE THE 2020 ELECTION

Guilty - as charged.

The whole point of blackmailing Ukrainian president is that he can't say anything against Trump.

 

He's doing a monumental mistake, in my most humble opinion. Especially now, when it's obvious what Trump is attempting to do (not just with Ukraine) and pretty likely he won't be allowed to dismantle the US. 

And that mistake is so weird it's making me paranoid. 

[Robotic Jew]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/two-giuliani-associates-who-helped-him-on-ukraine-charged-with-campaign-finance-violations/ar-AAIA6MX?li=BBnb7Kz

 

Quote

The men were charged with four counts, including conspiracy, falsification of records and lying to the FEC about their political donations, according to the indictment that outlines a conspiracy to funnel a Russian donor’s money into U.S. elections.

 

[Hankenhunter]

3 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/two-giuliani-associates-who-helped-him-on-ukraine-charged-with-campaign-finance-violations/ar-AAIA6MX?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

Rudy's going to drop a dime on trump. These guys owe no allegiance to trump or the repubs and will squeal when supermax prison pressure is applied.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[RavenHawk]

31 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Rudy's going to drop a dime on trump. These guys owe no allegiance to trump or the repubs and will squeal when supermax prison pressure is applied.

[Hankenhunter]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

You know you're a trump voter when all you have is lame memes and gifs. No rebuttals, just sad attempts at obfuscation.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[Tatetopa]

On 10/9/2019 at 1:33 PM, joc said:

What is Socialism?  Please don't bore me with internet defs...tell me in your own words what you think socialism is.

Socialism is renting property belonging to all and using the funds  for the good of all.  

Socialism is Alaska state oil remittances.  Oil under public land belongs to all citizens.  Every Alaskan citizen, man woman and child get a share of the oil revenues every year.  It is not based on how much money you make. everybody gets the same share.

Socialism is Norway investing North Sea Oil revenue in a public stock fund.  Revenue goes for public works like infrastructure.  If the Norwegians want to spend 10 billion on infrastructure, nobody has to ask where the money will come from, they already know.  No extra taxers, no sacrifices because the money is there.

[+joc]

50 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Socialism is renting property belonging to all and using the funds  for the good of all.  

Socialism is Alaska state oil remittances.  Oil under public land belongs to all citizens.  Every Alaskan citizen, man woman and child get a share of the oil revenues every year.  It is not based on how much money you make. everybody gets the same share.

Socialism is Norway investing North Sea Oil revenue in a public stock fund.  Revenue goes for public works like infrastructure.  If the Norwegians want to spend 10 billion on infrastructure, nobody has to ask where the money will come from, they already know.  No extra taxers, no sacrifices because the money is there.

Do  you honestly believe that definition of Socialism is what the Democrats are all about?  Let's take Health Care for example.  What would they rent...?

[+joc]

8 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

The whole point of blackmailing Ukrainian president is that he can't say anything against Trump.

 

He's doing a monumental mistake, in my most humble opinion. Especially now, when it's obvious what Trump is attempting to do (not just with Ukraine) and pretty likely he won't be allowed to dismantle the US. 

And that mistake is so weird it's making me paranoid. 

And how exactly is he attempting to 'dismantle' the US?  By growing the economy to unprecedented proportions?   By securing our borders?   By seeking and obtaining fair trade agreements with Communist China and Mexico and Canada?  By calling the lying Democrats out for what they are...Socialists?  

[Tatetopa]

14 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

But the really best thing is that if the House votes for impeachment, the President gets Due Process. 

Everybody that honors the Constitution wants to see that. We need to constantly reaffirm that we live by the rule of law.  Right now about half the people think the Democrats are a joke and the other half think the President is both sleezy and incompetent.  But it is not supposed to be a popularity contest, so let both sides present their best case.

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Rudy's going to drop a dime on trump. These guys owe no allegiance to trump or the repubs and will squeal when supermax prison pressure is applied.

I wouldn't be too sure of that.  He is crazy and gutsy.  His two buddies might flip on him but who knows.  There might be a substantial amount of evidence to convict them, but it may not lead to the top.    We will have to wait and see.  At this point the government of the United States appears corrupt, dysfunctional , and incompetent on both sides, and in at least 2 of the three branches.

That is the mark of a great leader, to bring out the absolute best in people.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Do  you honestly believe that definition of Socialism is what the Democrats are all about?  Let's take Health Care for example.  What would they rent...?

I honestly don't believe the Democrats or the Republicans are smart enough or honest enough to get the job done.

We get caught up in the spectacle, but I think it is as fixed as a professional wrestling match, just there to bring in the crowds and the money.

Meanwhile the country disintegrates, infrastructure falls apart, medical care and drugs continue to get ever more expensive, the opioid crises goes unabated because of greed.

The Constitution was a great idea, just not being carried out very well.  I would prefer all government service be term limited

Now as far as renting things out, the United States is one of the most resource rich countries in the world.   Every state has state lands, Land Grant Colleges were founded on those.  Texas has oil revenues and Oregon has timber revenues that go into the school fund.

But the federal government also has a lot of land.  Grazing, timber, minerals, off shore oil, a lot of resources plus other physical and intellectual property.  The money goes into the general fund and gets pi**ed away, disappears.  My first choice might be to sink that money into infrastructure rather than health care. 

[Raptor Witness]

4 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

You know you're a trump voter when all you have is lame memes and gifs. No rebuttals, just sad attempts at obfuscation.

I’m sad for the Trump voters. They see their cult leader slipping away,

I won’t be surprised if he takes a jet to Russia with his whole family. The usual Ukrainian getaway flight.

 Such a lovely family ....

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Raptor Witness

[Raptor Witness]

Edited October 11, 2019 by Raptor Witness

[+Hammerclaw]

The braying of jackasses requires no rebuttal and it's better to let swine wallow in their own filth if it gives them pleasure. As it goes now, this fake impeachment is going nowhere except, eventually, to the Supreme Court. You're dear Nancy is stymied by the conundrum facing her, damned if she calls a vote to make it official and damned if she doesn't. She become the tyrant of the House, eschewing all the traditional and legal conventions, secretive and hiding things in her dark room from which her toadies and the MSM scurry back and forth. A dictatorial Democrat forgoing democracy in pursuit of madness.

https://townhall.com/columnists/paulcurry/2019/10/10/zugzwang-why-nancy-pelosi-refuses-to-hold-an-impeachment-vote-n2554507

Edited October 11, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[Raptor Witness]

One could hope for the Beverly Hillbillies, but the Trump family is starting to look more like an episode of the ....

 

[RAyMO]

4 hours ago, joc said:

And how exactly is he attempting to 'dismantle' the US?  By growing the economy to unprecedented proportions?   By securing our borders?   By seeking and obtaining fair trade agreements with Communist China and Mexico and Canada?  By calling the lying Democrats out for what they are...Socialists?  

By growing the economy to unprecedented proportions? - whats your evidence for this? Are trajectories any different from before he came to office?

By seeking and obtaining fair trade agreements with Communist China and Mexico and Canada? - Nothing wrong with the idea - but the method is crude and is akin to removing the trade gap by bringing imports and exports to balance at zero,  and unless checked very quickly, will lead to a Global Trump Recession. Have you evidence trade balance with china is improving without reducing exports by US or otherwise?

By calling the lying Democrats out for what they are...Socialists? what you fear is not socialism its merely a mixed economy - some things are best done by capitalist ventures, others require co-ordination and management by the state to address issues like equality of access or affordability. Oh and not to mention caring for those who find themselves in need. 

[RoofGardener]

14 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/two-giuliani-associates-who-helped-him-on-ukraine-charged-with-campaign-finance-violations/ar-AAIA6MX?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

Most intriguing ! It will be interesting to see if this ever goes to trial ? 

The article desperately tries to connect Parnas and Fruman with  Donald Trump, but the connections are tenuous to say the least. (they once attended a meal with him.. but this was at a formal event with hundreds of other people. They didn't actually MEET him). The connections with Giuliani are slightly firmer, but still tenuous. He met them, and even employed them, but not in connection with anything relating to the charges ? 

As I said, it should be interesting !

[+and-then]

18 hours ago, RAyMO said:

Whether he attempted to blackmail him or not in the view of president of Ukraine - is totally irrelevant. His misdemeanor is using his position as President to influence / encourage  a foreign leader to find dirt on a political opponent. it is straight forward abuse of power.

It would be clear cut in any other mature democracy. Why is the USA different, is it acceptable strategy to involve foreign leaders in your re-election campaigns?

ETA what else could the Ukraine President say - tell his home audience that he is a presidential weakling and allowed the Trump to bully him. There was no way he can admit he felt pressured - it would be the end of him politically.

The aid was never threatened.  The investigation of Burisma, unbeknownst to Trump according to official documentation, had been restarted months prior to this phone call.  

The aid was delivered, not with held. Both participants to the call in question challenge any assertion the Democrat whistleblowers are making.   And you ignore all of these facts by stating that YOU know better what facts are relevant or not.