Trump’s Loose Lips with Ukraine

[RoofGardener]

34 minutes ago, Harte said:

As a Presidential communication, the entire thing can be classified. Trump will probably declassify it when he feels like he's trolled them enough.

Harte

In what way is this a "presidential communication" ? 

 

[+and-then]

14 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

In what way is this a "presidential communication" ? 

 

I'm not certain of the legal or official description but I imagine that any phone call, memo, email, or public statement could be considered as such and be protected.  This is exactly why those on the Left who have complained that he "covers up" or obstructs are so blatantly lying.  When their investigations began, he could have legally just said no.  They didn't have a right to single piece of paper, email or access to his staff and he freely gave them all.

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. I'm afraid I don't understand ? Could somebody explain this to me ? 

Presumably the role of the DOJ is to investigate alleged crimes ? Therefore it has primacy over this particular investigation ? By what legal or constitutional right is Congress getting involved ? 

Trump and his people are saying that they were notified by a whistleblower about the Bidens “illegal” activity in Ukraine and Congress want the name of this whistleblower so they can check it out. Trump has refused to give up the name. 

In other words Trump is running scared and has threatened Ukraine to cut funding for its military and war with Russia unless it finds/manufactures evidence against the Bidens.

[RoofGardener]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

Trump and his people are saying that they were notified by a whistleblower about the Bidens “illegal” activity in Ukraine and Congress want the name of this whistleblower so they can check it out. Trump has refused to give up the name. 

In other words Trump is running scared and has threatened Ukraine to cut funding for its military and war with Russia unless it finds/manufactures evidence against the Bidens.

Well... thanks @Captain Risky. So the allegation was given to the "Trump Team". 

Well.. in THAT case, why is the DoJ involved ? 

I mean... something doesn't add up here ? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding this ? 

OK... lets simplyfy this. To whom was the allegation made ? 

[+and-then]

10 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

One a seperate note, its really disturbing how republicans refuse to put their country first and their politicians second. Instead amoral Trump gets full support. Very disturbing!

Sorry to hear of your distress.  Maybe you should try ignoring the politics in a country you don't live in and which you cannot affect?  Serious statement.  People all over the planet are taking in half-truths, exaggerations, and straight up lies and are suffering stress over it.  Life is short, maybe you should get another hobby?

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well... thanks @Captain Risky. So the allegation was given to the "Trump Team". 

Well.. in THAT case, why is the DoJ involved ? 

I mean... something doesn't add up here ? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding this ? 

OK... lets simplyfy this. To whom was the allegation made ? 

Trump is going around the merry go round on this. Apparently now he’s saying that it wasn’t directly to him that the “intelligence” agent made the complaint only that it was made. 

Very comical.

[Unusual Tournament]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

Sorry to hear of your distress.  Maybe you should try ignoring the politics in a country you don't live in and which you cannot affect?  Serious statement.  People all over the planet are taking in half-truths, exaggerations, and straight up lies and are suffering stress over it.  Life is short, maybe you should get another hobby?

LOL. Am I cutting too close to the bone? 

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, hacktorp said:

As always, Farmer remains locked in his closet, terrified of Trump's...badness.  And Orangeousness.

You left out the part about him being in the fetal position and weeping quietly.  

[RoofGardener]

8 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Trump is going around the merry go round on this. Apparently now he’s saying that it wasn’t directly to him that the “intelligence” agent made the complaint only that it was made. 

Very comical.

Yeah.. OK.. so to whom was the evidence given ? 

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

LOL. Am I cutting too close to the bone? 

Dude, it really doesn't matter.  You probably won't believe me but this whole, Orange man bad, the world is ending 'cause...Trump, stuff has gotten tiresome, not threatening.  I don't know if he'll be re-elected but up til now not a single thing anyone has said or done to him has affected his support and I tend to believe the trend will continue.  If you enjoy living in outrage over the politics of a country you don't even live in then carry on.  I seriously don't understand what people get from it.  The only thing that bothers me about it all is that I never realized how strong the desire is in people to hate, based on "news" reporting. 

Knock yourself out and give 'em hell! 

[ian hacktorp]

4 minutes ago, and then said:

You left out the part about him being in the fetal position and weeping quietly.  

Haha...well, it's not like he's totally alone.  He's got Cap'n Risky and Raptor Witness in there with him whispering soothing words like:

On 9/19/2019 at 10:14 PM, Raptor Witness said:

Brennan says this is just the tip of an iceberg.

 

[+and-then]

Devin Nunes says Biden's run will end because of this attempted smear.  There was a reference to an admission by CNN that the so-called whistle blower had no first hand knowledge of the call.  Remember the good old days when there were actual journalists who were required to fact-check sources and to have at least TWO that could be verified?

[Unusual Tournament]

25 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeah.. OK.. so to whom was the evidence given ? 

Trump won’t say 

[Unusual Tournament]

34 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Haha...well, it's not like he's totally alone.  He's got Cap'n Risky and Raptor Witness in there with him whispering soothing words like:

All Trump has to do is name the informant and release the Ukraine transcript and the matter would have gone away last week. Assuming Trumps innocent. But this isn’t the first time that Trump has asked a foreign power to help him get re-elected, now is it.

orange man good?

[+Hammerclaw]

15 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I admit the comparison is glaring, but when you examine the nuts and bolts, and the apples and oranges, there is a big difference.

On the one hand you have a sitting President saying he wants someone to “falsely accuse someone else,” and the other, a sitting VP saying “don’t falsely accuse my son and others, or else.”

Can we compare the “bad” Ukrainian prosecutor to the “bad” Hunter Biden? It may take some work, but I’m sure someone can and will. 

 

Nice slight of hand there, but who is making false accusations? If there nothing there, why object to an investigation? How strange a response from the side that has been  investigating everyone around Trump and their pet ferret. Sounds like a cover-up to me.

[Michelle]

31 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

All Trump has to do is name the informant

Since the media seems to know all, they could name the leak source.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Michelle

[Unusual Tournament]

5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Since the media seems to know all, they could name the leak source.

That’s not how it works and you know it. Trump has made a very serious allegation and needs to prove it. 

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Dude, it really doesn't matter.  You probably won't believe me but this whole, Orange man bad, the world is ending 'cause...Trump, stuff has gotten tiresome, not threatening.  I don't know if he'll be re-elected but up til now not a single thing anyone has said or done to him has affected his support and I tend to believe the trend will continue. 

True Trump supporters are not swayed by this sort of thing.  As you have said, America is in moral decline, so who cares as long as he gets things done? It is pretty hard to trust the Democrats as honest arbiters of truth in any case.

It is the getting things done part that might trip him up.

That matters to me for three reasons.

I don't like to see America suffer financially.

The Democrats have no candidate of stature to oppose him.

I like the fact that he is cautious about starting foreign wars.

Sometimes he has the right idea, but seems to have the wrong approach, and he doesn't take advice.

https://www.newsweek.com/china-trade-war-trump-farmers-tariffs-bailout-subsidies-1457474

Since 2017, revenue from Chinese agricultural exports dropped by more than half, from $19.5 billion to $9.2 billion in 2018, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture figures. The USDA also found that farm income has dropped 45 percent over the same period. According to the American Farm Bureau, farm bankruptcies have increased 13 percent since 2018.

"If it's between supporting the president or losing your family farm — this is something we've had in our family for four generations and I know there's families with five or six generations on the same farm — if they're going to lose that, I think they're going to lose their loyalty very fast."

In the end it may come down to money as it usually does.  Coal did not come back despite all the hype.  Steel did not see a resurgence. .GM and others are laying off.  Those are the things that affect most peoples daily lives more than scandals with prostitutes or foreign leaders. A few hundred thousand broke farmers, coal miners, and laid-off factory workers could change an election if the opposition offers a financial policy that makes sense.

 

[Raptor Witness]

33 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Nice slight of hand there, but who is making false accusations? If there nothing there, why object to an investigation? How strange a response from the side that has been  investigating everyone around Trump and their pet ferret. Sounds like a cover-up to me.

I think we can safely say that the Ukrainian government, which was friendly to Russia, before the Crimean annexation, and then transitioned to unfriendly to Russia, had its share of corruption.  However, the annexation of Crimea, was far more corrupt than anything we’ve seen in the region since the second world war. Were there still Putin friendly elements, such as this prosecutor hanging around during that transition? I’m sure there were.

All governments have some form of corruption, with some far worse than others. 

I’m sorry but I don’t equate a westward leaning, friendly Ukrainian government, with an eastward leaning. 

 If Trump attempted to throw the next election, using extortion as a source and method, I cannot view this as simple corruption. I view this as a high crime and misdemeanor, and having Rudy Giuliani throw a little chaff into the air, just isn’t cutting it for me. 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Raptor Witness

[Michelle]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Remember the good old days when there were actual journalists who were required to fact-check sources and to have at least TWO that could be verified?

I verify sources better than they do and I'm nobody.

[Harte]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

In what way is this a "presidential communication" ? 

 

The President. Communicating over the phone with a foreign leader.

Now, will you say that such communications aren't to be considered sensitive?

Harte

[Unusual Tournament]

8 minutes ago, Harte said:

The President. Communicating over the phone with a foreign leader.

Now, will you say that such communications aren't to be considered sensitive?

Harte

Yes, especially since it looks like treason and collusion.

[Unusual Tournament]

19 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

I think we can safely say that the Ukrainian government, which was friendly to Russia, before the Crimean annexation, and then transitioned to unfriendly to Russia, had its share of corruption.  However, the annexation of Crimea, was far more corrupt than anything we’ve seen in the region since the second world war. Were there still Putin friendly elements, such as this prosecutor hanging around during that transition? I’m sure there were.

All governments have some form of corruption, with some far worse than others. 

I’m sorry but I don’t equate a westward leaning, friendly Ukrainian government, with an eastward leaning. 

 If Trump attempted to throw the next election, using extortion as a source and method, I cannot view this as simple corruption. I view this as a high crime and misdemeanor, and having Rudy Giuliani throw a little chaff into the air, just isn’t cutting it for me. 

 

...and who better than Trump to talk about corruption with a foreign leader.

[Harte]

Looks like the whole thing turns out to be a rumor reported by an intelligence agency employee.

Quote

The whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications, an official briefed on the matter told CNN. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work, and those details have played a role in the administration's determination that the complaint didn't fit the reporting requirements under the intelligence whistleblower law, the official said.

CNN

Harte

[Michelle]

That was reported two days ago, but people have been so busy celebrating something on Trump they don't read the fine print, Harte.