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Raptor Witness

Trump’s Loose Lips with Ukraine

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Hankenhunter
1 hour ago, joc said:

I think that was...Drain the Swamp...of which Clinton is a part of...

...and Barr is currently working on that...stay tuned...stay very, very tuned....

Riiight. Barr is going to be much to busy trying vainly to keep trump from being impeached. Also because you obviously missed it, Gromdor was being sarcastic.

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Tatetopa
7 hours ago, bee said:

ust for fun.... let's have an amusing short clip from the rally..

I do catch a few of these, similar at least.  Is this it?  You are in love with this guy who spends 2 minutes imitating both side of a sexual encounter (as if he did not have a lover or two) and then insulting vilifying, pulling up hate and spreading innuendo about others?  What does this have to do with doing an honest job as president?  Does he have any policies or is he just prurient and cathartic entertainment?

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Hankenhunter

Trump threatens to sue top Democrats Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi amid impeachment inquiry.

https://www.fark.com/goto/10586490/www.cnn.com/2019/10/12/politics/trump-threatens-sue-schiff-pelosi/index.html%3Futm_source%3Dfark%26u

He get a suit, she gets a suit, everyone gets a suit! Also, he still thinks he can impeach Pelosi. Lol

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bee
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

I do catch a few of these, similar at least.  Is this it?  You are in love with this guy who spends 2 minutes imitating both side of a sexual encounter (as if he did not have a lover or two) and then insulting vilifying, pulling up hate and spreading innuendo about others?  What does this have to do with doing an honest job as president?  Does he have any policies or is he just prurient and cathartic entertainment?

 

Trump pulls no punches + gives as good as he gets.... and he gets a lot...

I find him a refreshing change from the usual run of the mill, scripted professional politician -

If the Leftist Cult* are successful with their witchhunt of a democratically elected President of the USA..

Then America will be heading to hell in a handbasket... (followed by other Western Nations )

brief aside~It's one of life's little jokes that the central character in the Biden Saga is called 'Hunter'...
I wonder if this is his real name or a nickname because it seems a strange name to give your son...?

 

*

 

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bee
9 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

It’s called communication.  Something the Left is incapable of without resorting to violence.

 

9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Not true! Mahatma Gandi was excellent at communication. 


But I don't think he was on the left...?....not the real left anyway but perhaps he would fit the profile of the
new Middle Class Intelligensia who play at being Left but are really privileged  Authoritarians with an
inherited superiority complex.... ^_^.... 

(The  'Extiction Rebelion' seem to fit that profile as well...?...)

 https://www.marxist.com/gandhi-the-myths-behind-the-mahatma.htm

Much of what Gandhi said and did which was controversial, such as his openly racist comments on the status of Africans, to his support for the British in the Boer war, is often painted as a transgression of a younger Gandhi who over time came to fight against these wrongs. This has been grossly exaggerated, with Gandhi maintaining many of these prejudices throughout his entire life. What actually remained consistent were that his own views and actions were always distant and removed from the proletariat, whether they were indentured labourers, the industrial working class, untouchables, peasants, or Africans. His political development must be seen within this perspective.

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joc
9 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Wall built.

joc: The wall is being built.  Despite every effort from the No Border's Left to keep it from happening.

Coal country saved.

joc: Coal Country Rebounding as Demand Rises and Global Competition Falters

Manufacturing returned to US.

joc: Last year, 264,000 new manufacturing jobs were added, representing the highest number of new workers since 1988. As a percent of the total workforce, manufacturing rose for the first time since 1984

Less time spent golfing than Obama.

joc:  We do know that when Obama visited Golf Courses...he was there to play golf and did so often enough for it to become headline news.  Trump on the other hand owns many golf courses and uses them frequently as destination stop overs.  How much time does he spend actually playing golf?  Difficult to calculate.

Farmers not going bankrupt.   


joc: The Department of Agriculture recently forecast that net farm income will rise nearly 5 percent this year, to $88 billion.

 

Annual GDP over 3%.

joc:  plus lowest unemployment in history

 

Clinton in jail.

joc:  hopefully one day

Obamacare repealed.

joc: it would have been except for the late, great liar John McCain

 

8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Riiight. Barr is going to be much to busy trying vainly to keep trump from being impeached. Also because you obviously missed it, Gromdor was being sarcastic.

Trump is not going to be impeached.  Wake up.  He cannot be impeached without the House voting for impeachment and Pelosi doesn't have that much power.

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Gromdor
2 hours ago, joc said:

Trump is not going to be impeached.  Wake up.  He cannot be impeached without the House voting for impeachment and Pelosi doesn't have that much power.

Most of your links seem broken except for the one from 2017 about coal.

Did I mention that I do a lot of work in coal powered power plants?  Let me tell you first hand that coal has declined even more since 2017.  Costs have gone up because suppliers and transporters have gone bankrupt.  The utility has been building solar farms instead of gas, coal, or diesel since Trump. 

 

I also live in Iowa and have farmers as friends and neighbors.  Let me tell you first hand that they even though they are seeing a gain in income, their debt level is increasing and their net worth is decreasing.  Bottom line: They are becoming less profitable. Hence the $24 billion dollar farm bailout.  https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/iowa-farm-income-appears-higher-farm-values-decline

The bailout money is figured into farmer profitability number too, btw (yay socialism). 

 

The manufacturing sector is officially in a recession.  They have reported negative growth for two straight quarters. 

 

I don't understand the hype about the low unemployment rate either.  We make policy based on the Optimal Unemployment rate. Too low of an employment rate forces you to hire trash workers that lower productivity and profitability- things you need to compete on a global market (and a local one for that matter)

  I just did a boiler patch job at a local coal power plant.  They took it off-line for 96hrs to patch a tube leak and replace 5 tube panels.  When I got there I saw 70 year old men milling around.  I mentioned to their foreman that it was pretty sad to see guys that old forced to work construction to make ends meet.  He laughed and said, "Oh, they don't need the money.  We begged the retirees to come back because we were way short handed."  Twenty-four hours past the deadline  they gave up after replacing just two panels and repairing the leak.  My company ended up sending a bill to the utility company for $20,000 over the initial estimate to cover the overtime for our guys to stand around for that extra 24hrs waiting for them to get finished.  None of this would have occurred if the boilermakers had enough physically able qualified men to do the job.

 

Clinton might go to jail.  The chances would be a lot higher of her getting investigated if she ran for office again as demonstrated by this thread.

 

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
7 hours ago, bee said:

I find him a refreshing change from the usual run of the mill, scripted professional politician -

^^^This ^^^ :tu:

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joc
41 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Most of your links seem broken except for the one from 2017 about coal.

Did I mention that I do a lot of work in coal powered power plants?  Let me tell you first hand that coal has declined even more since 2017.  Costs have gone up because suppliers and transporters have gone bankrupt.  The utility has been building solar farms instead of gas, coal, or diesel since Trump. 

 

I also live in Iowa and have farmers as friends and neighbors.  Let me tell you first hand that they even though they are seeing a gain in income, their debt level is increasing and their net worth is decreasing.  Bottom line: They are becoming less profitable. Hence the $24 billion dollar farm bailout.  https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/iowa-farm-income-appears-higher-farm-values-decline

The bailout money is figured into farmer profitability number too, btw (yay socialism). 

 

The manufacturing sector is officially in a recession.  They have reported negative growth for two straight quarters. 

 

I don't understand the hype about the low unemployment rate either.  We make policy based on the Optimal Unemployment rate. Too low of an employment rate forces you to hire trash workers that lower productivity and profitability- things you need to compete on a global market (and a local one for that matter)

  I just did a boiler patch job at a local coal power plant.  They took it off-line for 96hrs to patch a tube leak and replace 5 tube panels.  When I got there I saw 70 year old men milling around.  I mentioned to their foreman that it was pretty sad to see guys that old forced to work construction to make ends meet.  He laughed and said, "Oh, they don't need the money.  We begged the retirees to come back because we were way short handed."  Twenty-four hours past the deadline  they gave up after replacing just two panels and repairing the leak.  My company ended up sending a bill to the utility company for $20,000 over the initial estimate to cover the overtime for our guys to stand around for that extra 24hrs waiting for them to get finished.  None of this would have occurred if the boilermakers had enough physically able qualified men to do the job.

 

Clinton might go to jail.  The chances would be a lot higher of her getting investigated if she ran for office again as demonstrated by this thread.

 

 

You can look at charts and numbers all you want.  More people are working, the economy is doing fine.   If it wasn't Trump wouldn't stand a chance of reelection now would he?

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hacktorp
8 hours ago, bee said:

 

Trump pulls no punches + gives as good as he gets.... and he gets a lot...

I find him a refreshing change from the usual run of the mill, scripted professional politician -

If the Leftist Cult* are successful with their witchhunt of a democratically elected President of the USA..

Then America will be heading to hell in a handbasket... (followed by other Western Nations )

brief aside~It's one of life's little jokes that the central character in the Biden Saga is called 'Hunter'...
I wonder if this is his real name or a nickname because it seems a strange name to give your son...?

 

*

 

Thanks for that video.  Amazing Polly does a great job of explaining how Leftists operate...including how they obsessively accuse others of the very sort of anti-social behavior they themselves are guilty of.

A good video to refer back to when UM posters are calling non-Leftists "cult members".

Cheers!

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Raptor Witness
On 10/12/2019 at 8:38 AM, Raptor Witness said:

The cult is losing their leader, and the Cool Aid flows like bad wine.

Shepherd Smith escapes Fix News ....  and runs for his life.

 

I think the loyal Trump supporters here are underestimating the significance of the disintegration within Fix News.

It’s pretty obvious when you watch the daily discussion, that at least half of the talking heads on Fix News are uncomfortable with what they’re saying on camera, with respect to the whole Trump overreach of power. They can smell the fish rotting from the head down, also.

Today Fareed  Zakaria aligned himself with the impeachment process, for the first time, and although he’s on CNN, he made a key statement, which cannot be overlooked or discounted. He said that Trump was behaving like a dictator, and that’s a pretty significant statement from one of the more guarded talking heads to make.

I think Shepard Smith left to preserve and protect his own reputation, as a journalist, not for any personal reasons. Having been at Fix News for 26 years, he also likely had enough money he could afford to leave.

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joc

Following is a portion of the original transcript of Trumps phone call with the Ukrainian President.  Please point out where the Quid Pro Quo is. 

 

The President: Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific job. The way you came from behind, somebody who wasn't given much of a chance, and you ended up winning easily. It's a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.

President Zelenskyy: You are absolutely right Mr. President. We did win big and we worked hard for this. We worked a lot but I would like to confess to you that I had an opportunity to learn from you. We used quite a few of your skills and knowledge and were able to use it as an example for our elections and yes it is true that these were unique elections. We were in a unique situation that we were able to achieve a unique success. I'm able to tell you the following; the first time you called me to congratulate me when I won my presidential election, and the second time you are now calling me when my party won the parliamentary election. I think I should run more often so you can call me more often and we can talk over the phone more often.

The President: (laughter) That's a very good idea. I think your country is very happy about that.

President Zelenskyy: Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government. You are a great teacher for us and in that.

The President: Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.

The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all, I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

The President: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.

President Zelenskyy: I would like to tell you that I also have quite a few Ukrainian friends that live in the United States. Actually last time I traveled to the United States, I stayed in New York

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Tatetopa
11 hours ago, bee said:

If the Leftist Cult* are successful with their witchhunt of a democratically elected President of the USA..

Then America will be heading to hell in a handbasket... (followed by other Western Nations )

If on the other hand a democratically elected president seeks to become a unitary executive running a mom and pop empire and thinks himself above the law, then America is heading to hell in a handbasket.

I had never even heard of Hunter Biden before, he does not campaign or participate in political life.  NOw tens of thousands of people hate him on one man's say so without any evidenct being presented.

Some of you folks art least still believe in guilty until proven innocent, let the facts be known before the verdict is declared in public for all to hear.

Trump gives better than he gets.  As yet, no Democratic candidate has stooped to acting out a love scene between Donald and Stormy,   Would that be refreshing?

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hacktorp
29 minutes ago, joc said:

Following is a portion of the original transcript of Trumps phone call with the Ukrainian President.  Please point out where the Quid Pro Quo is. 

 

The President: Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific job. The way you came from behind, somebody who wasn't given much of a chance, and you ended up winning easily. It's a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.

President Zelenskyy: You are absolutely right Mr. President. We did win big and we worked hard for this. We worked a lot but I would like to confess to you that I had an opportunity to learn from you. We used quite a few of your skills and knowledge and were able to use it as an example for our elections and yes it is true that these were unique elections. We were in a unique situation that we were able to achieve a unique success. I'm able to tell you the following; the first time you called me to congratulate me when I won my presidential election, and the second time you are now calling me when my party won the parliamentary election. I think I should run more often so you can call me more often and we can talk over the phone more often.

The President: (laughter) That's a very good idea. I think your country is very happy about that.

President Zelenskyy: Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government. You are a great teacher for us and in that.

The President: Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.

The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all, I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

The President: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.

President Zelenskyy: I would like to tell you that I also have quite a few Ukrainian friends that live in the United States. Actually last time I traveled to the United States, I stayed in New York

Well, there it is.  Trump clearly and blatantly committed gratuitous "cordiality".  Cordiality, of course, is the insidious precursor to full and overwhelming "diplomacy".

It's all right there in black and white.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, joc said:

You can look at charts and numbers all you want.  More people are working, the economy is doing fine.   If it wasn't Trump wouldn't stand a chance of reelection now would he?

The band was playing and the Titanic was doing great until it hit the iceberg.

Gromdor brings up some issues that are long term. and mostly ignored.  No president could bring back coal. Trump should not have promised to do so.  What he could have done was to help coal miners find another livelihood rather than focusing on giving the mine owners a soft landing.

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bee
11 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

If on the other hand a democratically elected president seeks to become a unitary executive running a mom and pop empire and thinks himself above the law, then America is heading to hell in a handbasket.

I had never even heard of Hunter Biden before, he does not campaign or participate in political life.  NOw tens of thousands of people hate him on one man's say so without any evidenct being presented.

Some of you folks art least still believe in guilty until proven innocent, let the facts be known before the verdict is declared in public for all to hear.

Trump gives better than he gets.  As yet, no Democratic candidate has stooped to acting out a love scene between Donald and Stormy,   Would that be refreshing?

 

your support for Peter Strzoc and Lisa Page (and their personal + political shenanigans) ----- is touching ---- ^_^

oh the outrage that Trump should 'go for them'... the poor darlings...:P

 

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joc
6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

The band was playing and the Titanic was doing great until it hit the iceberg.

Gromdor brings up some issues that are long term. and mostly ignored.  No president could bring back coal. Trump should not have promised to do so.  What he could have done was to help coal miners find another livelihood rather than focusing on giving the mine owners a soft landing.

The Left must demonize everything good about Trump. Everything!  It is a prerequisite!  Trump can do no good...period.

But...the truth is that the coal industry is making a come back...hell you can't expect something like that to shake off all the things done to do it for the previous 8 years overnight.

The economy is being turned in a new direction...like a great ship with a great Captain....she turns slowly and surely....steady as she goes.

Edited by joc
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Tatetopa
7 minutes ago, bee said:

your support for Peter Strzoc and Lisa Page (and their personal + political shenanigans) ----- is touching ---- ^_^

oh the outrage that Trump should 'go for them'... the poor darlings.

You miss the point there bee.  I don't care about them or their personal lives.  If they committed a crime, punish the crime, not an illicit affair or gossip. Going after those two is a subplot for Real Housewives or  Big Brother not running a country.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, joc said:

Following is a portion of the original transcript of Trumps phone call with the Ukrainian President.  Please point out where the Quid Pro Quo is. 

 

The President: Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific job. The way you came from behind, somebody who wasn't given much of a chance, and you ended up winning easily. It's a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.

President Zelenskyy: You are absolutely right Mr. President. We did win big and we worked hard for this. We worked a lot but I would like to confess to you that I had an opportunity to learn from you. We used quite a few of your skills and knowledge and were able to use it as an example for our elections and yes it is true that these were unique elections. We were in a unique situation that we were able to achieve a unique success. I'm able to tell you the following; the first time you called me to congratulate me when I won my presidential election, and the second time you are now calling me when my party won the parliamentary election. I think I should run more often so you can call me more often and we can talk over the phone more often.

The President: (laughter) That's a very good idea. I think your country is very happy about that.

President Zelenskyy: Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government. You are a great teacher for us and in that.

The President: Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.

The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all, I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

The President: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.

President Zelenskyy: I would like to tell you that I also have quite a few Ukrainian friends that live in the United States. Actually last time I traveled to the United States, I stayed in New York

That transcript reads like a scripted dialogue written by someone who doesn’t understand that characters speak differently. 

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bee
1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

You miss the point there bee.  I don't care about them or their personal lives.  If they committed a crime, punish the crime, not an illicit affair or gossip. Going after those two is a subplot for Real Housewives or  Big Brother not running a country.

 

Jeeeezus lighten up...

Strzok and Page were colluding and plotting (with others) to destroy him... via the ''''insurance'''''.....

They deserve what they got and no need to get all sniffy about it...
Trump isn't your usual robotic, inauthentic, scripted politician... and that's one of the things millions
of people in the US and the rest of the world love about him...

 

 

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joc
41 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

That transcript reads like a scripted dialogue written by someone who doesn’t understand that characters speak differently. 

Not if you've listened to Trump speak very much.  Sounds just like him.  If you haven't...watch a rally.  But I digress...

Where is the Quid Pro Quo?  Where I say, where?

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Sir Wearer of Hats
12 minutes ago, joc said:

Not if you've listened to Trump speak very much.  Sounds just like him.  If you haven't...watch a rally.  But I digress...

excatly, both speakers sound like El Trumpo.

12 minutes ago, joc said:

Where is the Quid Pro Quo?  Where I say, where?

No doubt we’ll be told “it was implicit”,

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joc
Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

excatly, both speakers sound like El Trumpo.

No doubt we’ll be told “it was implicit”,

Well...that doesn't really cut it.  Implications are perceptions of the observer.  For those hard left who aren't really getting this because of their hatred for Trump ...ginned up by the Leftist Media...

Example of quid pro quo:   Look pal....if you don't fire that prosecutor, you are not getting the billion dollars... got it?  I'm leaving in 6 hours...either fire the prosecutor or I'm taking the billion dollars back to Washington!  

Example of NOT quid pro quo:  

 I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

“I’d like you to do us a favour” followed by withholding money is a very Mafia take on “quid pro quo”.

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Raptor Witness

 

18 hours ago, bee said:

 

Trump pulls no punches + gives as good as he gets.... and he gets a lot...

I find him a refreshing change from the usual run of the mill, scripted professional politician -

No one ever said that Trump wasn't entertaining. I happily give him credit for that, but he's gone too far for most Americans to swallow.

Ukraine isn't just another business deal, and if you can't see what's wrong with that, then your about to find out very fast that this isn't Russia, or any other dictatorship.

Trump and the GOP are on life support, with a code blue occurring almost every day of the week. The Trump campaign is a walking corpse. The GOP is a political graveyard in the making.

 

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