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Raptor Witness

Trump’s Loose Lips with Ukraine

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ExpandMyMind
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  • Former national security adviser John Bolton was so alarmed by Rudy Giuliani’s pressure campaign on Ukraine for dirt on former Vice President Joe Biden that he directed a top aide to tell White House lawyers he wasn’t involved, The New York Times reported.
  • Bolton’s directive came after he got into a heated exchange with Gordon Sondland, the US ambassador to the European Union who was part of Giuliani’s shadow foreign policy with respect to Ukraine.
  • “I am not part of whatever drug deal Rudy and Mulvaney are cooking up,” Bolton instructed his aide, Fiona Hill, to tell White House lawyers, according to Hill’s testimony cited by The Times.
  • The Times also reported that Bolton described Giuliani as a “hand grenade” that would “blow everybody up.”

https://www.businessinsider.my/john-bolton-fiona-hill-white-house-lawyers-giuliani-ukraine-2019-10/

 

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RAyMO
40 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You've got to wonder how anyone could ever have thought that this would be a good idea.

I keep telling ya, trump doesn't think! There is no room for thinking with all that ego squeezed in there.

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ExpandMyMind

Trump’s impeachment barricade crumbles

Quote

Donald Trump's impeachment blockade has collapsed.

The president's former top Russia adviser, Fiona Hill — the first White House official to cooperate in Democrats' investigation of the Ukraine scandal — has detailed for lawmakers a trail of alleged corruption that extends from Kiev to the West Wing. In dramatic testimony on Monday, she roped in some of Trump's top advisers as witnesses to the unfolding controversy.

And on Tuesday, a senior State Department official, George Kent, appeared on Capitol Hill to testify about his knowledge of the episode despite an attempt by Trump administration lawyers to block him, according to a source working on the impeachment inquiry. The House Intelligence Committee issued a subpoena for his testimony Tuesday morning, and Kent, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, complied.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/15/donald-trump-impeachment-ukraine-investigation-046915

 

 

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hacktorp
7 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Trump’s impeachment barricade crumbles

Fake news.

Schiff's closed-door inquisition is a farce that will, just like all the others, fall flat on it's face.  Fiona Hill (yes, she really could pass for Joseph Goebbels' twin sister) is just another Chrissy Blasey-Ford.

Why can't you learn from your past mistakes?

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Hankenhunter
11 hours ago, BrooklynGuy said:

Interesting seeing a moderator weighing in on such a divisive topic. 

Well, when one side tells the truth with links to back it up, and the other side replies with innuendos and outright fabrications, you have to draw a line somewhere. 

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Hankenhunter
1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

Fake news.

Schiff's closed-door inquisition is a farce that will, just like all the others, fall flat on it's face.  Fiona Hill (yes, she really could pass for Joseph Goebbels' twin sister) is just another Chrissy Blasey-Ford.

Why can't you learn from your past mistakes?

So the best you have is insulting her looks? My post above says it all. Another hacktorp hack job.

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Agent0range
1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

So the best you have is insulting her looks? My post above says it all. Another hacktorp hack job.

It's funny how all of these "best and brightest" APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP are suddenly Democrat spies as soon as they put country above party.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
17 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

So the best you have is insulting her looks? My post above says it all. Another hacktorp hack job.

Don’t leap to conclusions, Hack could think Goebels was a right looker.

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Hankenhunter
20 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

It's funny how all of these "best and brightest" APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP are suddenly Democrat spies as soon as they put country above party.

Aye, there's the rub. Party before country is the reason for the treason this season.

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Tatetopa
6 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Fake news.

Schiff's closed-door inquisition is a farce that will, just like all the others, fall flat on it's face.  Fiona Hill (yes, she really could pass for Joseph Goebbels' twin sister) is just another Chrissy Blasey-Ford.

Why can't you learn from your past mistakes?

Why fake news?

I doubt Fiona is like Chrissy.  Working with Bolton.she probably has a daily diary record with names and dates.  Maybe even a couple of recordings from John Bolton. I don't think John left the White House as a Trump supporter.  He may cooperate too.

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hacktorp
12 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Why fake news?

I doubt Fiona is like Chrissy.  Working with Bolton.she probably has a daily diary record with names and dates.  Maybe even a couple of recordings from John Bolton. I don't think John left the White House as a Trump supporter.  He may cooperate too.

The two are similar only inasmuch as they both represent false hope that their "stories" are key to thwarting Trump and his agenda.  If one can step back from all of the hype, it's easy to see that Hill, like Blasey-Ford, has nothing but innuendo and the false promise of horrifying "inside information".  She doesn't.  If she did, Schiff wouldn't be taking her statements in secret so that he can later paraphrase using his own embellishments.  If she did, it would be made public from the get-go.

As for John Bolton, he is perhaps the best example of Trump appointing people from inside the "enemy camp", only to get rid of them once they've served their purpose.  It really is no surprise that Bolton, after getting fired, is now claiming that he, too, has "horrifying" recollections from his days in the Trump administration.  He doesn't.  Trump is playing by the book, and this so infuriates his enemies because they are forced to fabricate their allegations against him out of nothing.

I should also point out that with all of the clown-show ridiculousness surrounding Trump here in the US, he appears to be brokering a truly historic settlement between the players involved along the Syrian-Turkish border.  Despite the MSM's phony attempts to portray hot-war conditions there, the major powers are actually reaching accord.

Trump brings yet MORE peace...and the Left/Neocon alliance is apoplectic...go figure.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

The two are similar only inasmuch as they both represent false hope that their "stories" are key to thwarting Trump and his agenda.  If one can step back from all of the hype, it's easy to see that Hill, like Blasey-Ford, has nothing but innuendo and the false promise of horrifying "inside information".  She doesn't.  If she did, Schiff wouldn't be taking her statements in secret so that he can later paraphrase using his own embellishments.  If she did, it would be made public from the get-go.

As for John Bolton, he is perhaps the best example of Trump appointing people from inside the "enemy camp", only to get rid of them once they've served their purpose.  It really is no surprise that Bolton, after getting fired, is now claiming that he, too, has "horrifying" recollections from his days in the Trump administration.  He doesn't.  Trump is playing by the book, and this so infuriates his enemies because they are forced to fabricate their allegations against him out of nothing.

I should also point out that with all of the clown-show ridiculousness surrounding Trump here in the US, he appears to be brokering a truly historic settlement between the players involved along the Syrian-Turkish border.  Despite the MSM's phony attempts to portray hot-war conditions there, the major powers are actually reaching accord.

Trump brings yet MORE peace...and the Left/Neocon alliance is apoplectic...go figure.

Step back from the hype.  Hill was an adviser on Russia.  She has a ;lot of involvement in administration functioning.  She may not have made policy or even been senior enough to speak at some of those meetings, but likely she was there taking notes. She was interviewed in private.We don't yet know if she has something factual and relevant.  I disagree with your conjecture about publicizing.

The Democrats are trying to build a believable. overwhelming case against the President.  They may not be able to do so, but they are using their best strategy.  First,  If they make every witness's testimony public as it happens, they diffuse the situation, by trickling things out.  Second, until they take all of the available facts, they don't know if they have a case convincing enough to ask for a vote on impeachment.  As you surmise, they may decide there is not enough there to convince the voters and let it drop.

Trump is not playing by any book.  He is relying on gut feeling and making it up as he goes.  That is a quality many like about him and many dislike.  But, if you never open the book and play by your own rules you do run the risk of tripping yourself up.

Whether there is a historic settlement or not remains to be seen.

Except for the military industrial complex that even Eisenhower warned us about, most people left or right would be glad to see peace. Mostly the disagreement is about point of view not the end goal.  For many, the understanding we had with Iran was a way to work toward peace in the region.  Many people including the president who has Obama Derangement Syndrome bigly disagree with that.  Not because they don't want peace but because they think it is the wrong way to get it. 

Some think Trumps approach is misplaced.

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and then
On 10/14/2019 at 9:03 PM, Hankenhunter said:

More unsubstantiated nonsense from a failed presidential candidate looking to keep his name in the media. Where's the supposed letter? At this point the right have nothing but wishful thinking talking points.

Possibly... but you can't know that with the current information that is available.  I have no idea if the supposition is valid but since when is that necessary to put out a rumor?  The Left has been doing it to Trump for 3 years.  I think Rand Paul is a Git of the first water.  Never liked him.  That said, at least he is a consistent Git and if this investigation unearths documentation of any kind that demonstrates the kind of language he mentioned then that would be far closer to a quid pro quo than anything Trump did.  So let's just wait awhile and listen to the waves roll in at the beach :)   I have a feeling, nothing more, that Barr is actually a stand up guy and he isn't going to protect ANYONE that gets meshed in the investigation.  Durham has already proven his bona fides against BOTH parties' corrupt members. 

I heard a report a few days ago that the  IG report was being cleaned up from a classification angle and would be made public in a week or two.  I expect nothing but pablum and double talk from Horowitz...he's so deep in the swamp that I bet he has webbed toes BUT the report also mentioned that Durham is going to be releasing a partial report at about the same time and he is supposed to continue periodically dropping his progress into the public.

IF that is accurate, it makes me believe that he and Barr are fully aware of what the Democrats are attempting to stage-manage with the help of their propaganda arm.  The mad rush toward getting as much innuendo as possible out the door to the press before the Obama cabal starts getting official documents with Federal letterhead is a key indicator.  That worked for 2 years with the shaky old man that didn't know anything about his own investigation but I think Durham is going to announce actual indictments that the media can try to spin but which cannot be ignored by those who've been caught in crimes.

Those legal firms in DC are going to be chittin' in High Cotton, as we used to say :w00t:

 

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Tatetopa
6 hours ago, and then said:

I think Durham is going to announce actual indictments that the media can try to spin but which cannot be ignored by those who've been caught in crimes.

Maybe,  Maybe not.  It sounds as frail a hope as the Democrats have of pinning Trump to the wall.

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joc
32 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Maybe,  Maybe not.  It sounds as frail a hope as the Democrats have of pinning Trump to the wall.

Since Pelosi said she is not going to have a vote on impeachment after all...I'd say they have ZERO hope.

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Farmer77
On 10/15/2019 at 4:45 AM, RoofGardener said:

it related to your statement that Pelosi et al where working to limit the "damage" Trump had done. I was using hyperbole to point out that their SOLE motive was to "get Trump", not to limit any damage. 

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the purpose of "get Trump" was and always has been to limit the damage he has done and could do.

I know its comforting hate fuel for those on the right to think its all about politics but dude in America he has been famously corrupt and morally repugnant for decades. It didnt take a flaming liberal to see bad things coming.

Of course that is all overlaid into the vicious partisanship that certainly does exist, IMO though both things are true ; the dems are out to get Trump, it just happens to be righteously so.

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Farmer77
1 hour ago, joc said:

Since Pelosi said she is not going to have a vote on impeachment after all...I'd say they have ZERO hope.

Joc, she said theyre not going to vote on whether or not to have an inquiry, theyre just going to go ahead and do it. Impeachment is still very much full steam ahead.

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Farmer77

Ex-Pompeo adviser tells impeachment investigators he was ‘disturbed’ by attempts to use foreigners to hurt Trump’s political opponents

Quote

Michael McKinley, a former senior adviser to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, told House impeachment investigators Wednesday that he quit his job last week out of concern about the mistreatment of career U.S. diplomats and the alarming allegations related to efforts to pressure Ukraine’s president into investigating President Trump’s political rivals.

 

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Farmer77
On 10/15/2019 at 5:58 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Since that was revealed to the media, have the democrats passed any legislation whatsoever to improve living conditions for migrant children on the southern border? No.

The Democrats are quite happy with the status quo so they can use these children to humiliate Trump and influence the 2020 election.

So I have to ask do you even pay attention at all?

$4.59B border aid package signed into law

 

Edited by Farmer77
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Tatetopa
On 10/15/2019 at 3:15 AM, Kismit said:

Or I could just go with the argument of false equivalency, I have so much choice.

produce evidence of actual baby trampling or move on, I am rarely patient when being questioned over nonsense.

Excuse me if this a bit too presumptuous or unwelcome, but when I saw you post tonight , it brought to mind Nancy Pelosi standing up to a roomful of men.   She would be proud I'm sure.  That is not meant as an insult. 

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the purpose of "get Trump" was and always has been to limit the damage he has done and could do.

Oh really ? And precisely WHAT damage has President Trump actually DONE ? The economy has been stable - and growing - during his tenure. Troops are being disengaged from foreign entanglements. America hasn't invaded anywhere. Crime is trending downwards. 5G mobile networks are being rolled out. Nobody has to watch Trump on The Apprentice. Where's the damage ? 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Farmer77
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Oh really ? And precisely WHAT damage has President Trump actually DONE ? 

Is this a serious question? :lol: The reality is we are just now starting to figure that out but my honest guess is it will be decades before we have the full scope of the carnage he has wrought.

We can start with news quite relevant to today which is the gutting of the state department. Grown ups understand the long term damage done to American interests as a result.

Of course the use of division and the lies to harm our constitutional government in order to enhance the power of the POTUS. Look at this thread. We have alleged "constitutionalists" arguing that impeachment is unconstitutional because he said so. There has been a concerted campaign to spread and ingrain ignorance, remember this bit of Orwellian madness?

Quote

Just remember: what you’re seeing and what you're reading is not what’s happening

Thats not even diving into the whole "deep state" wet dream he has used to erode confidence in every branch of government. Now any fact is simply swatted away with "deep state"  and the mouth breathers dont think twice ( i know youre a believer so my apologies)

He has hidden science and sided with corporate interests over the public every chance he has gotten. Round up causes cancer? Meh not enough to have to label it! Hell even his newest trade deals offers immunity to big tech firms for censorship after all of his whining.

Then we have the whole trust thing between insulting NATO allies, backing out of deals and of course sacrificing our allies the Kurds.So who trusts us again? Who are our allies? A secondary problem with that is unfortunately due to his lack of respect for American societal norms we are left wondering what his motivations for doing so were.

Of course his choice of actions in Syria has now released ISIS fighters which ya know, isnt good.

Last I saw it was 281 lobbyists that have gone through his administration. The grift is alive and well. Speaking of the grift destroying norms by not divulging his taxes or divesting from his companies has led to multiple problems as mentioned above.

At the same time we have a bipartisan senate committee releasing detailed reports on Russian election interference he has his cronies (aided by US taxpayer funds) trying to bring to life the conspiracy theory that it was the Ukraine who intervened in our election and not the Russians. Considering the detailed and biartisanly agreed upon accounts of their attacks on our democracy thats more and more looking like sedition. Sedition by a man with a cult following is um not good. 

He has reduced the US military to nothing more than a mercenary force in Saudi Arabia and bragged about it.

IDK why noone else seemed to blink but his admin did publicly announce they would be killing 1400 Americans annually through their air regulations. 

America's booming deficit has shown his financial schemes arent working, harming future generations of Americans.

IMO it is the constitutional issues that he has done the most harm with however a close second would have to be his effect on public discourse. That is the one thing that IDK how we ever get over. He has told the nation , and his cult in particular, that bullying behavior, lies and corruption are acceptable means as long as your ends are met. A nation cant survive like that amigo.

I know I know the whatabout brigades are gonna come running to which I say two things. First youre smoking crack if you think what is happening today is even mildly comparable to any other administration in modern history so just dont start with that . Second and more importantly though if your first instinct is to say "whatabout the other side" shouldnt that mean you dont support your side doing it?  Of course if you dont actually support your side doing it dont do the whatabout thing, if you do then just sack up and own it rather than blaming someone else for your dark desires.

 

 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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DarkHunter
6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Then we have the whole trust thing between insulting NATO allies, backing out of deals and of course sacrificing our allies the Kurds. A secondary problem with that is unfortunately due to his lack of respect for American societal norms we are left wondering what his motivations for doing so were. So who trusts us again? Who are our allies?

Some of those NATO allies needed to be insulted, arguably they need insulted more.  Way too many NATO countries have let their militaries atrophy to essentially nothing just because America was willing to have a large military.

As for the Kurds I know this is hard for people to accept but the Kurds have never been our allies and we have just used the Kurds as pawns in our geopolitical moves.  It hasnt been morally or ethically right but morals and ethics tend to mean nothing in geopolitical situations.  Before Trump America has betrayed the Kurds 7 times, 6 of which occured post 1960s. 

Between 1958 and 1963 we armed the Kurds, among other groups, in Iraq to help overthrow Kassem.  When a successful coup occured in 1963 we immediately stopped arming the Kurds but kept arming the new Iraqi government with weapons, including napalm, to suppress the Kurds.

In 1970 when the Iraq government started to drift into the Soviet sphere of influence we once again started arming the Kurds to fight, we just kind of left out the important detail that we never intended for them to actually ever win and was never going to give them enough support to even come close to winning but instead we were going to use them as a blood sponge to keep Iraqi government occupied.  Later we signed agreements with Saddam and the Shah of Iran to cut off all aid to the Kurds and we let Saddam massacre thousands of them for the first time.  Kissinger famously said to all of that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work".

During the 80s we helped supply Iraq with chemical weapons that we knew would be used against the Kurds but didnt care as it also kept Iran from winning the Iran-Iraq war.  

In 1991 H.W. Bush during the first gulf war called on the Iraqi people to rise up and overthrow Saddam and when the Kurds listened and started to rise up along with the Shia neither got any support and America let both get slaughtered.  H.W. Bush apparently didnt want the regular people of Iraq to overthrow Saddam but instead for the Sunni controlled military to do a coup.

Under Clinton America sent vast amount of weapons and money to help Turkey violently suppress its Kurdish population, also was the start of Iraq Kurds being good with Turkey Kurds being bad.

Lastly in 2007 Turkey was getting a bit nervous that the Kurds in northern Iraq were getting to close to having an independent state so we let Turkey bomb them mercilessly till they felt more secure.

Out of curiosity how has what Trump has done been any different then the past 50 to 60 years of US policy towards the Kurds.

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Farmer77
18 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

As for the Kurds I know this is hard for people to accept but the Kurds have never been our allies and we have just used the Kurds as pawns in our geopolitical moves.  It hasnt been morally or ethically right but morals and ethics tend to mean nothing in geopolitical situations.  Before Trump America has betrayed the Kurds 7 times, 6 of which occured post 1960s. 

So answer the question: Does any of the the above make it OK to do so now?

Crud I get it you like the guy, it doesnt mean you have to justify everything he ever does.

20 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Out of curiosity how has what Trump has done been any different then the past 50 to 60 years of US policy towards the Kurds.

Well specifically Trump turned their back on them after they had 11k fighters die fighting ISIS for us. Thats new as this just happened over the last couple of years. You may have heard about it?

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DarkHunter
13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So answer the question: Does any of the the above make it OK to do so now?

This is what you are not getting, there is no ok in geopolitics, there is no morality, and there is no ethics in geopolitics so your question is complete nonsense.  There is normally an attempt to make it look like morals and ethics matter to make the masses feel good but they never do matter.  All that matters on the geopolitical level are national interests and that was what was acted on, if the right or wrong choice was made might become clear later but that is generally rare.  But to pretend that Trump has done something that hasnt been done before is just wrong.

13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Well specifically Trump turned their back on them after they had 11k fighters die fighting ISIS for us. Thats new as this just happened over the last couple of years. You may have heard about it?

It's not new, just about every time we had the Kurds fight for us thousands died doing it to normally be immediately betrayed and let thousands more die.  

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