+and-then Posted October 18, 2019 #2326 Share Posted October 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: He also realized that was the confession that may have sealed removal in the Senate and has spent the hours since backpedaling like mad , to the point hes flt out lying about what he said You go with that. I'll watch and see how far it gets ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2327 Share Posted October 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Man none of you guys have any clue what youre talking about at this point do you? What you want is for her to have a vote on the impeachment inquiry so clowns like Nunes can have a say in the proceedings. The inquiry however is ALREADY happening. To me it is interesting that Democrats say HISTORICALLY Trump should do this, and that, and not doing so is grounds for censor, or impeachment. And Trump says... No I'm not doing that. So then historically every impeachment inquiry got a House vote. But today Dems are saying.... No I'm not doing that. Just gave up the high ground. There's no moral superiority there. Just more clowns trying to score points. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2328 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, and then said: No matter how convinced you are (again) Trump can plead he was exercising his authority as the chief executive and there isn't thing damned one you guys can do to deny him that right. But roll on... Again this shows on how many levels Trump is displaying blatant corruption. The clause I was quoting above was regarding the emoluments violation bombshell he dropped during that insane presser. There are so many different cases of apparent corruption and unconstitutional activity that I do understand its easy to get confused. 2 minutes ago, and then said: Unless you are actually saying that America gives billions to other countries with no expectation of any return? Remember, Trump didn't receive ANYTHING of value to him alone. Thats patently false. There was no foreign policy objective to withholding congressionally appropriated money to ensure the Bidens OR the DNC get investigated. The value was solely to him alone. 4 minutes ago, and then said: His request, ignore it or not, was for help in a corruption investigation due to a video of Plugs arrogantly talking about how he bullied a Ukrainian minister into firing a top prosecutor. You can choose to ignore the very real historical context around that video but please stop expecting the rest of the world to. 4 minutes ago, and then said: On top of ALL of this, he received no guarantee of reopening anything and the aid was released anyway. He neither gave or received something so your quid pro quo is quid pro gone. Yes he did. Its right there in the phone call. Quote I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have, friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2329 Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Damn man thats some fever swamp desperation right there That seems like something that sweaty gutfield guy or the ross lookalike would scream at Juan Williams on the five So tell me again why you guys stopped caring about the Constitution? And yet it is the Law, something you are trigger by apparently. Me... I believe it is legal, because this... You... Doesnt anyone care about the Children!!!! (Appeal to Emotion) (Appeal to (perceived) Public Opinion) I dont see anything in you post that disputs what I said, just attacks and opinion and accusations to try to discredit by false appeal to the Constituition. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2330 Share Posted October 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, DieChecker said: To me it is interesting that Democrats say HISTORICALLY Trump should do this, and that, and not doing so is grounds for censor, or impeachment. And Trump says... No I'm not doing that. So then historically every impeachment inquiry got a House vote. But today Dems are saying.... No I'm not doing that. Just gave up the high ground. There's no moral superiority there. Just more clowns trying to score points. Well except for that whole constitution thingy You guys are culture warring while the rest of the nation is worrying about the nation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2331 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, DieChecker said: And yet it is the Law, something you are trigger by apparently. Me... I believe it is legal, because this... Because of what though? Because you made up a scenario in your head and it comforts you? Why on earth would you spin such a tale? Do you actually believe that nonsense? That no money will change hands? 1 minute ago, DieChecker said: You... Doesnt anyone care about the Children!!!! (Appeal to Emotion) (Appeal to (perceived) Public Opinion) I dont see anything in you post that disputs what I said, just attacks and opinion and accusations to try to discredit by false appeal to the Constituition. There was nothing to dispute. You posted hopeful fantasy. Youre hopeful that no money will change hands and because you like Trump you are willing to put our nation at risk hoping he does the right thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2332 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: Well except for that whole constitution thingy You guys are culture warring while the rest of the nation is worrying about the nation. Right... Trump acting within the law = bad. Because it Triggers. House Dems act outside precedent and its rainbows. Got it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2333 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Farmer77 said: Because of what though? Because you made up a scenario in your head and it comforts you? Why on earth would you spin such a tale? Do you actually believe that nonsense? That no money will change hands? What is your proof it will? Your convicting before a crime happens. Like firing a police officer based on no facts, but just emotion. Quote There was nothing to dispute. You posted hopeful fantasy. Youre hopeful that no money will change hands and because you like Trump you are willing to put our nation at risk hoping he does the right thing. You equally are living in fantasy. You simple think you are right though. And thus you are triggered by counter argument. I believe in charging crimes that happened, not those imagined by political partisans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2334 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, DieChecker said: Right... Trump acting within the law = bad. Because it Triggers. Its truly amazing the brainwashing affect he has. He told America he was OK with foreign intervention to our elections, he gets told thats illegal by multiple authorities, does it anyways and you guys are still on here arguing "oh its ok" 2 minutes ago, DieChecker said: House Dems act outside precedent and its rainbows. No its not rainbows. Its not really cool at all. Unfortunately the GOP are acting as defense attorneys in this case rather than investigators. Multiple of whom have proven themselves untrustworthy when it comes to such matters regarding Trump, I.e Nunes & Gaetz. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2335 Share Posted October 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: There are so many different cases of apparent corruption and unconstitutional activity that I do understand its easy to get confused. If they are apparent, you'll have no issues listing them, yes? Quote The value was solely to him alone. Even if true. Impossible to criminally prosecute. Political side show of impeachment is the only option, and it still appears it will be a hollow victory with the Senate failing to convict. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2336 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, DieChecker said: What is your proof it will? Your convicting before a crime happens. Like firing a police officer based on no facts, but just emotion. Are you serious? Im truly having trouble trying to figure out how to respond to this. So without any facts to back up your position you are assuming no money will change hands for the foreign leaders, their staffs, the media, the secret service etc etc ? And yet you somehow claim im the one operating out of emotion. 6 minutes ago, DieChecker said: I believe in charging crimes that happened, not those imagined by political partisans. Again though do you have facts to support your position that everything will be free? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2337 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Its truly amazing the brainwashing affect he has. He told America he was OK with foreign intervention to our elections, he gets told thats illegal by multiple authorities, does it anyways and you guys are still on here arguing "oh its ok" Actually if it was H. Clinton who did the same thing, I'd say the same thing. The President has bast powers, and picking where to entertain foreign leaders is one such power. If you can show definitively that Trump will earn a penny with using his property as a host location, then let's again look at that. Quote No its not rainbows. Its not really cool at all. Unfortunately the GOP are acting as defense attorneys in this case rather than investigators. Multiple of whom have proven themselves untrustworthy when it comes to such matters regarding Trump, I.e Nunes & Gaetz. That's cool at least YOU can admit that. I believe other Liberal minded posters here would not admit as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2338 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Are you serious? Im truly having trouble trying to figure out how to respond to this. So without any facts to back up your position you are assuming no money will change hands for the foreign leaders, their staffs, the media, the secret service etc etc ? And yet you somehow claim im the one operating out of emotion. Again though do you have facts to support your position that everything will be free? Of course I don't. Do you have any evidence other then suspicions? Point being your assuming the worst, and then calling it criminal, when the event hasnt happened. The appearance of Conflict of Interest is not evidence of Conflict of Interest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2339 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, DieChecker said: If they are apparent, you'll have no issues listing them, yes? Syria withdrawal -Turkey investments Ukraine - Rudy dirty deeds Ukraine - Zelensky call Multiple emoluments cases 2017 taxes show he ran two books just as Cohen testified to and of course hiding his taxes in general Foundation is still under investigation China request for Biden dirt Questionable use of Temporary appointments Nepotism Obstruction of Justice Obstruction of Congress This is off the top of my head without any effort researching at all. The appearance of corruption is thick amigo 6 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Even if true. Impossible to criminally prosecute. Political side show of impeachment is the only option, and it still appears it will be a hollow victory with the Senate failing to convict. Im OK with history, him and his fans knowing he will forever be known as only the 4th POTUS in history to be impeached. But I think the odds of removal are increasing by the day at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2340 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Agent0range said: I don't think you have a clue what is going on at all. She said no vote on an impeachment INQUIRY, which is not needed. She can set forth an impeachment inquiry without a vote, which is what happened. The vote is strictly symbolic. She has not once said they won't vote on impeachment. If so, quote your sources. I read on a BBC article that if there is an impeachment inquiry vote, then REPUBLICANS will get to ask questions and call witnesses. By not having a vote, Pelosi is effectively fending out the Republicans during the inquiry. Every time in the past, a vote was taken to REMOVE the appearance of political bias.... Since the impeachments were due to factual evidence, everyone thought that was OK. Since this is just a Pony Show, they need to change out any official Republican input into the investigation. Cant have actual good questions and arguments clouding what should be a very one sided report. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2341 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, DieChecker said: Of course I don't. Do you have any evidence other then suspicions? Point being your assuming the worst, and then calling it criminal, when the event hasnt happened. The appearance of Conflict of Interest is not evidence of Conflict of Interest. No man im assuming NORMAL. Its a business. You are the one making a massive and IMO naive assumption that a high end business will sacrifice its normal weekly profits let alone the boon they would receive from an event such as the G-7 Hey maybe im wrong and they will come out and say that. How much of America do you think is going to believe it though? The man whose companies intentionally swindled the elderly and financially vulnerable turned down millions of dollars? Yeah right hes getting his somewhere. I think the largest point is that we shouldnt even have to think about it. Its not good for our nation. Which is why the clause is in there to begin with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2342 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, DieChecker said: Since this is just a Pony Show, they need to change out any official Republican input into the investigation. Im sure republican input would be quite welcomed. The problem is the Trumpian input. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2343 Share Posted October 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Syria withdrawal -Turkey investments Ukraine - Rudy dirty deeds Ukraine - Zelensky call Multiple emoluments cases 2017 taxes show he ran two books just as Cohen testified to and of course hiding his taxes in general Foundation is still under investigation China request for Biden dirt Questionable use of Temporary appointments Nepotism Obstruction of Justice Obstruction of Congress This is off the top of my head without any effort researching at all. The appearance of corruption is thick amigo Some of those are real issues and some, IMHO, are just due to people in media being Triggered. I dont believe the evidence is some of those issues will prove enough, though the "appearance" of inappropriateness is there. Quote Im OK with history, him and his fans knowing he will forever be known as only the 4th POTUS in history to be impeached. But I think the odds of removal are increasing by the day at this point. Probably true. Good luck with the existing evidence though, IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2344 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: No man im assuming NORMAL. Its a business. You are the one making a massive and IMO naive assumption that a high end business will sacrifice its normal weekly profits let alone the boon they would receive from an event such as the G-7 If it was Bush wanting to use the place, I'd agree there would be money changing hands as normal. But... Trump owns the place. If he says Free of Charge... its free. Quote Hey maybe im wrong and they will come out and say that. How much of America do you think is going to believe it though? Polls seem to suggest the same 42% of people who approved of Trump in March of 2016, still approve of him. I dont think much of anyone has changed their minds in the last 3 years. Quote think the largest point is that we shouldnt even have to think about it. Its not good for our nation. Which is why the clause is in there to begin with. If it's not good, why are both sides pursuing it so strongly. This is not a Trump Only issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2345 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, DieChecker said: Some of those are real issues and some, IMHO, are just due to people in media being Triggered. I dont believe the evidence is some of those issues will prove enough, though the "appearance" of inappropriateness is there. Totally and I think thats something that gets missed in our hyper partisan society. For many of the issues we discuss ive come at them from the thought process that the appearance of corruption needs to be checked out but considering the world these people come from it could he just that - the appearance and nothing more . At least thats how I started with this administration. 4 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Probably true. Good luck with the existing evidence though, IMHO. My personal guess is there will be a host of things presented to senate in order to make the case for his unfitness in general that when taken in totality could become too much for many senators to ignore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2346 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, DieChecker said: If it's not good, why are both sides pursuing it so strongly. This is not a Trump Only issue. The emoluments clause? How is that not a Trump only issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted October 18, 2019 #2347 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, DieChecker said: So I didn't say not to investigate Trump. Are you saying not to investigate Biden? If so, why? Because he's running for office? Because Biden is running for office, he should be immune to Federal investigations? Investigating Biden is fine. But its not Trumps job to do so. Not happy with the facts and trying to get foreign authorities to twist them in your political favour in return for another favour is illegal. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2348 Share Posted October 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Trump owns the place. If he says Free of Charge... its free. He hasnt though has he? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 18, 2019 #2349 Share Posted October 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Totally and I think thats something that gets missed in our hyper partisan society. For many of the issues we discuss ive come at them from the thought process that the appearance of corruption needs to be checked out but considering the world these people come from it could he just that - the appearance and nothing more . At least thats how I started with this administration. I can agree with that. I dont even actually blame liberals. Their arguements are, is part, a result of what one side is saying, and they feel the need to defend that when seemingly stupid arguements come from the right. People end up seeming much more partisan then they really are. Quote My personal guess is there will be a host of things presented to senate in order to make the case for his unfitness in general that when taken in totality could become too much for many senators to ignore. I'd agree. It does appear that some R Senators are wavering. But that could just be theater to get liberal minded independents back home to continue supporting them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted October 18, 2019 #2350 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Republicans worried by Mulvaney's confirmation Trump sought exchange of favors with Ukraine Quote Some Republicans were deeply concerned by Mulvaney's comments. "You don't hold up foreign aid that we had previously appropriated for a political initiative," said GOP Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. "Period." Republican Rep. Francis Rooney of Florida called Mulvaney's acknowledgment about withholding Ukraine aid "troubling," saying it is "not a good thing" to do that in connection "with threatening foreign leaders." Rooney would not rule out the prospects of supporting impeaching the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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