Poll of Palestinians

[+and-then]

7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.. I think you'll find that ALL of the 1948 refugees are held as ... well ... refugees in the camps, and NOT allowed to mingle with other Gazan's and the general Gaza population ? 

That's called "love for our brotherly Arabs"  

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

58 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.. I think you'll find that ALL of the 1948 refugees are held as ... well ... refugees in the camps, and NOT allowed to mingle with other Gazan's and the general Gaza population ? 

just the 1948 ones. Ok, that is despicable - but still not all

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

51 minutes ago, and then said:

That's called "love for our brotherly Arabs"  

And then, just because they are getting screwed by Arabs does not mean that Israel is innocent

[Alchopwn]

On 9/21/2019 at 7:03 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I don't blame the Palestinians, I really don't.  Israel has made it clear over the decades that their idea of "peace" is that Palestinians should shut up and move out.  Attitudes tend to harden with generations of human rights abuses, and it can never go away because Israel is a racist nation and that is the whole basis for abuse to the Pals.

So Jihad it is and will be. Die with your boots on.

I think this is a somewhat unfair approach to the history of the region EoT.  When the notion of a Jewish State in British Palestine was first floated, the Zionists wanted a pluralist society where all religions and peoples were accepted and had full democratic rights, and there are a LOT of documents that reiterate this position from the beginnings of the Zionist movement.  In fact despite the attacks, many Zionists still believed the Arabs would come to their senses.  Why?  Because despite the British Colonial Office's efforts to drive a wedge between the Jews and Arabs politically (divide and conquer was ever the British motto), the fact was that Arab economic migration into the area was huge during the period.  Of course the Jews were too optimistic.  They forgot that Islam never shares, and can't play nice to save itself, and the Grand Mufti of Palestine consistently became the regional voice for war.  The amusing thing about the situation was that the number of Arabs who were in Palestine prior to the Jews stimulating the economy was a fraction of those who now call themselves Palestinians.  In fact, the notion of Palestinians is a bit of a myth, as really they were always just Arabs, without anything to culturally distinguish themselves from any other Arab population except their hatred of Jews.  The fact is, if your nation is continuously attacked by the immigrant workforce your people hired and improved the lives of, who then turn around and claim that they own you land, which you paid for, basically due to an argument based on nothing but religious bigotry, you too might become intolerant.  It has been said that the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace, and that is because they are essentially a criminal organization that likes the status quo.  The fact is they like the way they get to terrorize their own people with armed gangs, force people's daughters into prostitution and forced marriages, they enjoy controlling the drip feed of the local economy to their patriotic victims, and they really enjoy acting as unrestricted pedophiles on all the orphans their policies create.  I used to feel very sympathetic towards the Palestinians and their cause, but then I went into Gaza and actually met them, and then I looked into the history in more detail.  I must say, I don't like Israel much either, having lived there doing translations, but Israel is a shining beacon of civilization in the Middle East, and they're only as racist as they need to be to survive.  Frankly I doubt I could show as much patience and forbearance as the Jews have shown to the Arabs.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

With everything you said portraying the Pals as you did (bad Arabs) - bottom line, Al, who ended up with the land that Palestinians once lived on? Who stole it, Al?  Why don't Palestinians have human rights, Al?

Jews stole the land because they hate Muslims. Human rights. hmmm.

[RoofGardener]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

With everything you said portraying the Pals as you did (bad Arabs) - bottom line, Al, who ended up with the land that Palestinians once lived on? Who stole it, Al?  Why don't Palestinians have human rights, Al?

Jews stole the land because they hate Muslims. Human rights. hmmm.

Well, Israel ended up with some of the land that the Arab's once lived on. However, although the Arabs may have LIVED on that land, that is not the same as OWNING that land. You have to recall that most of the land was originally owned under the Ottoman system, with wealthy absentee landlords ruling over a debt-ridden peasantry. It was a sort of debt-feudal system. Certainly very few peasants actually OWNED the land that they worked on. 

The Zionists purchased much of this land from the actual Arab owners. 

I don't even know whether records of Arab peasant ownership under the British Mandate actually still exist ? 

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

With everything you said portraying the Pals as you did (bad Arabs) - bottom line, Al, who ended up with the land that Palestinians once lived on? Who stole it, Al?  Why don't Palestinians have human rights, Al?

Jews stole the land because they hate Muslims. Human rights. hmmm.

Why do the Jewish people hate Muslims? Maybe it's because since the beginning of the Jewish nation they have been attacked or had any agreements by all their Muslim neighbors back tracked on. hmmm maybe human rights really isn't the problem, maybe it's because the Muslims in the region are just sore losers? Yes they are losers, they have never had the ability or leaders to possibly win any fight, oh and by the way they started all of the fights in that area themselves.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[RoofGardener]

9 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Jews stole the land because they hate Muslims. Human rights. hmmm.

I really don't think that's true, @Earl.Of.Trumps. 

[Alchopwn]

9 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

With everything you said portraying the Pals as you did (bad Arabs) - bottom line, Al, who ended up with the land that Palestinians once lived on? Who stole it, Al?  Why don't Palestinians have human rights, Al?

Jews stole the land because they hate Muslims. Human rights. hmmm.

The Jews bought the bulk of the land.  As to there being "Palestinians", that is a post WW2 conceit of the Arabs.  Most people who now call themselves "Palestinians" are the descendants of migrant workers who came to the region in the 1930s, and have less claim to the land than the Jews, as they never even bought the land, and have no long standing claim to it.  Frankly the Turks, as descendants of the Ottoman Empire have more claim to Palestine than the present Palestinians, but really their claim is also paper thin.  The only time the region has historically ever been an independent state, beholden to no empire, was under the Jews.  As to human rights, having survived death camps and pogroms, to find the Muslims calling for the Jews to be raped and murdered and driven into the sea, doesn't sound like human rights either.  You are talking about people who still won't even admit that Israel has a right to exist, so to talk about human rights, is ridiculous.  Why should a conversation of that sort be one sided?  Would we even be having this conversation if the Jews had lost?  No.  Because they would have been raped and murdered to the last standing individual by the "Palestinians".

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

No.  Because they would have been raped and murdered to the last standing individual by the "Palestinians".

The Palestinians are held up as a symbol of human rights abuse simply due to their choice of enemy.  If any other than JEWS were the ones on that land, the world would never have noticed at all.

[Alchopwn]

Just now, and then said:

The Palestinians are held up as a symbol of human rights abuse simply due to their choice of enemy.  If any other than JEWS were the ones on that land, the world would never have noticed at all.

I don't think anti-Semitism is the only reason (technically the Palestinians are also a Semitic people after all), but is certainly contributes.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, Israel ended up with some of the land that the Arab's once lived on. However, although the Arabs may have LIVED on that land, that is not the same as OWNING that land. You have to recall that most of the land was originally owned under the Ottoman system, with wealthy absentee landlords ruling over a debt-ridden peasantry. It was a sort of debt-feudal system. Certainly very few peasants actually OWNED the land that they worked on. 

The Zionists purchased much of this land from the actual Arab owners. 

I don't even know whether records of Arab peasant ownership under the British Mandate actually still exist ? 

As I have mentioned before, the House of Deeds was destroyed in 1967 by the occupiers. I can't find that link anymore, nor any one that supports that notion.

I think common sense should prevail. Certainly there are Palestinians that still have the title in hand, and yet they live in some other country by edict of the occupiers so there were two wrongs, the theft of the land and the eviction from the land of their birth, all because they are Muslim.

And weather the landlords are absentee or not gives no society the right to claim such lands. These occupiers are brutal people,

[Phaeton80]

On 9/20/2019 at 2:22 PM, Gwynbleidd said:

That's an extremely pitiful number in favour of peace.

I wonder how you and I would react if we were in their shoes.. You know, being robbed from our freedom and any semblance of a future (primarily) by a foreign, agressive, occupying military.. for over 70 years.

Im a peace loving guy, but I think any normal human being will re act violently if you put them in such a situation for a prolonged period of time. Extreme environments breed extreme individuals. To blame the militants of any group for their 'crimes' after occupying / taking their land, destroying their homes and mistreating, mass murdering and committing crimes against humanity on a regular basis.. well.. seems pretty sick to me.

Imagine, say Chinese troops occupying your neck of the woods for several decades robbing you of your freedom, imagine you and yours losing your homes, family members, your children by the hands of thesame military. And imagine such crimes being perpetrated without any reprecussions what so ever, all under the deceitful guise of 'self defense' (because some of those nasty Aussies actually re- act and start shooting self made rockets at Chinese dominant area's), while more and more Australian territory is claimed as Chinese territory. More and more armed Chinese civilians, supported by a massive ever- present Chinese army, keep assaulting and victimizing the native Australians.

Lets not forget who is uccupying who here. The ridiculous attempts of some to equate both sides, trying to somehow project this as an equal situation.. is an utter misrepresentation of reality. Were dealing with one of the most advanced military machines in the world against a pummeled band of disorganised militant civilians, militia's. Trying to pose the actions of groups like Hamas implicate all Palestinians, even framing them all as extremist terrorists, is just as distorted. This is, however, standard M.O. for the more Zionistically inclined here.

I wonder how many Jews would have voted for peace if they were the ones being occupied and opressed by a foreign military treating them as sub human.. committing (cultural) genocide. Not for ten odd years, but 70.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

6 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Im a peace loving guy, but I think any normal human being will re act violently if you put them in such a situation for a prolonged period of time.

Nicely articulated, Phaeton. 

The Palestinians were the most peaceful people around. They have never had a military in their history and before the 1940's, nobody had guns. The people are in many cases, highly educated. Sadly, their peaceful nature is what left them as soft targets. Pushovers. 

Unfortunately for the occupiers, the angst and hatred is not limited to the Palestinians. The entire region recognizes Israel as the true existential threat.

It's just a question of when before the ticking time bomb goes off.

[Phaeton80]

11 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Nicely articulated, Phaeton. 

The Palestinians were the most peaceful people around. They have never had a military in their history and before the 1940's, nobody had guns. The people are in many cases, highly educated. Sadly, their peaceful nature is what left them as soft targets. Pushovers. 

Unfortunately for the occupiers, the angst and hatred is not limited to the Palestinians. The entire region recognizes Israel as the true existential threat.

It's just a question of when before the ticking time bomb goes off.

 

Not only the entire region is reacting negatively regarding the unrelenting crimes against humanity of this political entity, the whole world is. Except, ofcourse, the Zionist zealots.. screaming anti Semite! at anyone not cheering Israel on.

[RoofGardener]

On 9/27/2019 at 4:42 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

As I have mentioned before, the House of Deeds was destroyed in 1967 by the occupiers. I can't find that link anymore, nor any one that supports that notion.

I think common sense should prevail. Certainly there are Palestinians that still have the title in hand, and yet they live in some other country by edict of the occupiers so there were two wrongs, the theft of the land and the eviction from the land of their birth, all because they are Muslim.

And weather the landlords are absentee or not gives no society the right to claim such lands. These occupiers are brutal people,

Yeah... I've tried searching for this "House of Deeds" on the internet, and I can't find any reference to it ? It's as though it never existed ? 

I'll keep on digging. I mean, it makes sense that there WOULD have been SOME sort of central repository. It's the sort of thing that the British excel at ! 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

17 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeah... I've tried searching for this "House of Deeds" on the internet, and I can't find any reference to it ? It's as though it never existed ? 

I'll keep on digging. I mean, it makes sense that there WOULD have been SOME sort of central repository. It's the sort of thing that the British excel at ! 

I wouldn't sweat it, RG. I've tried. That story I read was so long ago. It happened when I - and perhaps most of us thought that internet records were forever. Oh. lawdy.

 

PS: thinking… Maybe it was "Registry of Deeds". And who knows what it would have been called in Palestine

Edited September 30, 2019 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[SHaYap]

7 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I wouldn't sweat it, RG. I've tried. That story I read was so long ago. It happened when I - and perhaps most of us thought that internet records were forever. Oh. lawdy.

facing the Nakba... 

Quote

• Jewish voice for peace LINK

~

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 hours ago, third_eye said:

facing the Nakba... 

• Jewish voice for peace LINK

~

Thanks, bud. I'll check it out.

[Grim Reaper 6]

I am surprised at all the Anti-Semitic comments by forum members. When the truth is that the Arabs in this region made their own beds, by attacking Israel so many times. I blame the Arab leadership for being totally inept, if they weren't many of the current problems could have been solved years ago.

[ThereWeAreThen]

Wouldn't really take any notice of these polls. So many factors to take into account. 

[+and-then]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:42 PM, ThereWeAreThen said:

Wouldn't really take any notice of these polls. So many factors to take into account. 

I bumped this because I didn't want to start a new thread but I have a link that demonstrates one of the major factors that keep peace a distant dream.  It also refutes a common argument I get into with PA supporters here.  They simply refuse to admit that the Palestinians openly say they want ALL THE LAND yet deny it in global Fora:

https://unitedwithisrael.org/watch-pa-claims-all-of-israel-is-palestine-while-abbas-deceives-un/?utm_source=pushengage&utm_medium=pushnotification&utm_campaign=pushengage

[RoofGardener]

On 2/27/2020 at 12:12 AM, and then said:

I bumped this because I didn't want to start a new thread but I have a link that demonstrates one of the major factors that keep peace a distant dream.  It also refutes a common argument I get into with PA supporters here.  They simply refuse to admit that the Palestinians openly say they want ALL THE LAND yet deny it in global Fora:

https://unitedwithisrael.org/watch-pa-claims-all-of-israel-is-palestine-while-abbas-deceives-un/?utm_source=pushengage&utm_medium=pushnotification&utm_campaign=pushengage

Arab two-faced mendacity has a long history. Recall the words of Mohammed... "War is Deceit". (Bukhari 52:269). 

In regard the PLO statement about wanting "all of the land", then.. well.. this is hardly new news @and then. 

Two thoughts for you. 

The first is the refrain "From the River, to the Sea, Palestine, will be free". Meaning that the PLO want ALL of the British Mandate of Palestine territory, including Israel. 

And the second point ? Consider what the initialism "PLO" stands for. It does NOT stand for "Palestinian Liberation Organisation", as many seem to think. 

It stands for "Palestine Liberation Organisation".  And in their declaration of Independence, they VERY carefully refused to define their borders. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by RoofGardener

[acidhead]

 

[RoofGardener]

Jeez..the soldier gets knocked over by the van, but then gets up and starts fighting. 

Tough dude ! 

Edited April 28, 2020 by RoofGardener