'Unimaginable' oil prices, warns Saudi prince

[Phaeton80]

56 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, the Saudi's are claiming that the detritus from the missile/drone attacks was from Iranian cruise missiles. They have put aforementioned detritus on display to the media, and the photographs have circulated EVERYWHERE... including to the eyes of multitudinous weapons experts worldwide. So far as I am aware, nobody has contradicted the Saudi analysis ? 

Proof enough ? 

 

Yeah erm, no. The fact the Houthi / Yemeni forces - under attack by US ally Saudi Arabia - use Iranian hardware does not implicate Iran for this attack, contrary to what the usual suspects would have you believe. Or would you pose the use of US weapons / military hardware by any given third party, say ISIS or Saudi Arabia, implicates the USA as the culprit (of the wholesale murder of civilians)?

Lets project this situation in a Western- context example: Canada is attacked by, say, Russia. The US provides some of its military hardware to Canada to defend herself, which then attacks a Russian target with said hardware, only for the US to be blamed for providing it, posing its 'an act of war'.. Asking, no pleading the int community to act against it. While accuser 'Russia' is providing its military hardware to A. start a whole sequence of (illegal) wars of agression herself, B. supplies its weapons to states attacking other states committing crimes against humanity and C. supplies weapons, directly and indirectly, to criminal murderous 'Muslim' extremist groups with strong ties to ISIS (ie. al nusra) in her attempts to oust yet another 'uncooperative' ME head of state.

Yep, thats a pretty strong argument you got there, no double measures at all. S'probably why the international community is falling over themselves to join the 'coalition of the willing' and subdue that dastardly Iran, 'main supporter of terrorism in the region' (rofl).

Edited October 1, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, the Saudi's are claiming that the detritus from the missile/drone attacks was from Iranian cruise missiles. They have put aforementioned detritus on display to the media, and the photographs have circulated EVERYWHERE... including to the eyes of multitudinous weapons experts worldwide. So far as I am aware, nobody has contradicted the Saudi analysis ? 

Proof enough ? 

no. Question: Would you believe anything the Saudis showed you or promised you? Above all when they were trying to encourage you into taking military action against another country on their behalf? That's the mistake Jamal Khashoggi made when they invited him to the consulate just over a small administrative matter.  I find it very hard to believe you really are that naive. Much more likely, you see it as a golden opportunity for an excuse to finally do something to those Iranians. Isn't that right? 

[RoofGardener]

15 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

no. Question: Would you believe anything the Saudis showed you or promised you? Above all when they were trying to encourage you into taking military action against another country on their behalf? That's the mistake Jamal Khashoggi made when they invited him to the consulate just over a small administrative matter.  I find it very hard to believe you really are that naive. Much more likely, you see it as a golden opportunity for an excuse to finally do something to those Iranians. Isn't that right? 

Well, I'll grant you that the evidence COULD have been faked. And the attack COULD have been a self-inflicted attack by the Saudi security forces in order to mobilise the public mood towards attacking Iran. And there COULD be fairies at the bottom of my garden, who pick all my runner beans overnight. But I doubt it. Complicated conspiracies tend to fall to pieces rather rapidly. (a bit like the canes holding my runner beans up). 

[Phaeton80]

Heres another one of those 'Anti Semetical America Haters' spewing the usual 'Conspiracy Nutter Nonsense'.. Things like some crazy 'Russian Stooge' Malaysian PM connecting Israel with terrorism, and supposing the West is inundated with narrative driven propaganda efforts.. yeah right! Sheesh, whats wrong with these people??

Malaysian PM: "Israel Is The Origin Of Modern Terrorism" & Twitter Exec Is Also Army Psyop Soldier

..Maybe this dude should move to Russia, see how he likes it there.. Right?

Edited October 1, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

It's absolutely true. And the Jewish terrorism began before Israel existed. The only book on the matter that Westerners would ever believe are British books written on the matter when the Brits held the mandate. Some of the shoot those Zionist immigrant bastids did - like cutting men's testicles off, killing a man's wife and kids right in front of him... was freekin' horrendous.

Yes, Jews invented terrorism in the middle east. But it is coming back to haunt them.

[DarkHunter]

7 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Meanwhile, I don't know how much this has been reported in the pro-Saudi media, but the devastatingly effective Saudi military has once again scored a stunning victory, so this can only make old IBS's position even stronger.

... or not.  

 

It has been covered in another thread but essentially the Houthi claims are mostly false.  The videos and pics are either from past engagements, some of which went very badly for the Houthis after the initial ambush, or they dont match the claims at all. 

The paraded troops seem to be an overwhelming mix of captured mercenaries or yemeni militia with maybe a handful of Saudi military advisers, the vehicles captured or destroyed were 17 troop transports/light armored vehicles and not hundreds of heavily armored vehicles, and the count of captured seems to be in the hundreds and not thousands.  

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Read for yourselves about the peace loving Zionists in pre Israel.

https://jewterror.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/jewish-terrorism-in-palestine-1930s-and-1940s/

Soon after the end of World War II, there were three basic para-military Zionist organizations in Palestine, working against the Arab people, with the specific purpose of driving it out of Palestine. These were the Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang.

Between 1947 – 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Muslims and Christians were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel’s borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the “Israeli Forces” totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Q:  Since Israel by its own definition is a terrorist organization, does that make America with its ongoing economic and military aid to terrorists, the worlds largest supporter of terrorism?

 

[Phaeton80]

45 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

It's absolutely true. And the Jewish terrorism began before Israel existed. The only book on the matter that Westerners would ever believe are British books written on the matter when the Brits held the mandate. Some of the shoot those Zionist immigrant bastids did - like cutting men's testicles off, killing a man's wife and kids right in front of him... was freekin' horrendous.

Yes, Jews invented terrorism in the middle east. But it is coming back to haunt them.

As it stands, Israel is still mostly profiting from the acts of ISIS, AQ / Sunni terrorism. I suspect this will continue for some time, dont see any reason or any event which will change that any time soon.

But at the proverbial end of the day, I completely agree.. it will come back to haunt them.

[Phaeton80]

15 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Q:  Since Israel by its own definition is a terrorist organization, does that make America with its ongoing economic and military aid to terrorists, the worlds largest supporter of terrorism?

 

 

A: Yes, if the political entity known as Israel defines herself as such, this would be a sound conclusion. Yet, if the definition of terrorism is maintained (terrorism is committing excessive violence against civilians without a lawful basis, poised to serve a political objective), the USA herself is the main terrorist. If she is coaxed to act in anothers interest, or not.

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, this is outrageous and I hope it isn't true :

Saudi Arabia has given a green light to Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi to arrange a meeting with Iran as a first step towards de-escalating tensions in the region, Middle East Eye can reveal.

Abbas al-Hasnawi, an official in the prime minister's office, told MEE on Tuesday that Abdul Mahdi was mediating between the leaderships in Riyadh and Tehran and had communicated each side's conditions for talks to the other.

 

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Well, this is outrageous and I hope it isn't true :

Saudi Arabia has given a green light to Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi to arrange a meeting with Iran as a first step towards de-escalating tensions in the region, Middle East Eye can reveal.

Abbas al-Hasnawi, an official in the prime minister's office, told MEE on Tuesday that Abdul Mahdi was mediating between the leaderships in Riyadh and Tehran and had communicated each side's conditions for talks to the other.

 

Is this a joke?  What is wrong with an attempt at deescalation?

[Space Commander Travis]

37 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Is this a joke?  What is wrong with an attempt at deescalation?

No, it's a (presumably) true story. That's my whole point, any reasonable person would welcome it. As, however, it might remove another excuse for a war with iran, there are some, I have no doubt, that would hope it doesn't happen. 

[Tatetopa]

11 hours ago, and then said:

It doesn't carry enough of the load yet to help with this issue.  The thing people seem to overlook about oil prices is that if the oil was THEIRS, they wouldn't sell it for less than the market value.  No one would.  America's oil is mostly owned by private entities and the global market will rule the prices, not patriotism or anything else.

I totally get that.  We are still a bastion of the free enterprise and private property economic model. My father was in the oil business as a geologist.  You are right many people don't get that though.  They say things like "We are energy independent."  We are not, oil companies are and most of them are global.  If the price of oil goes up in Saudi Arabia, Exon and Shell prosper, oil royalties in the US go up. The American car owner pays the cost at the pump.  

You are also right that alternative energy is not close to making up the difference yet.  For the same price as a new aircraft carrier, we could just about cover the US with wind and solar farms.

So, strategically, I will ask why do we care about the Middle East if not for oil?

You want to protect Israel, I concur.  They are the closest thing to a friend and a democracy in that region of the world, and you and many others have deeper reasons for protection. I can respect that even if I don't share it.  Well and good, we can aid them if they need it.  The Israelis have proven to be a match for the Iranians even if they do have nuclear weapons.  I doubt the Israelis will let that happen.  We are only needed for backup.

Sweet crude oil anoints the heads of the mullahs and the  Wahabi clerics. It is oil that makes  their harsh and hateful voices sound pleasing.  As long as we can protect our friends, let these schoolyard bullies settle their own differences, and make the whole world a safer place.

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I doubt the Israelis will let that happen.  We are only needed for backup.

Well, Mr. Tat, then how come the US is on the precipice of going into Iran - allegedly because Iran is warring with Saudi Arabia? 

IMO, America is waiting for any excuse to invade Iran like they did with Iraq. It's all about protecting the Israel experiment. That is priority number one for the US in its ME affairs. I'd love to see Israel fight it  owns battles but that ain't gonna' happen as long as Uncle Sucker is there to do it for them.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, Mr. Tat, then how come the US is on the precipice of going into Iran - allegedly because Iran is warring with Saudi Arabia? 

IMO, America is waiting for any excuse to invade Iran like they did with Iraq. It's all about protecting the Israel experiment. That is priority number one for the US in its ME affairs. I'd love to see Israel fight it  owns battles but that ain't gonna' happen as long as Uncle Sucker is there to do it for them.

Because we are fools or tools?

[+and-then]

19 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Would you believe anything the Saudis showed you or promised you?

A better question would be, when was the last time you believed ANY evidence that contradicted your biases?  

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'd love to see Israel fight it  owns battles

Name a single war they've had where U.S. troops fought FOR them.  As to them "fighting their own battles" you realize what that will mean if they get pushed to the wall and are about to be defeated, we've discussed it before.  Do you really imagine they wouldn't nuke their enemies?  To say you don't care about that leads me to believe you have a SERIOUS hate going on for those people.  Not just Jews, either.  ALL of the people who'd be killed in the region.  That sounds like justice to you?  If it does, I'd really like to hear your backstory and why you hate these people so much.  Name any other group anywhere in the world that is being denied "justice" that you'd be THAT sanguine about taking the world to the brink for...

[RoofGardener]

12 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, Mr. Tat, then how come the US is on the precipice of going into Iran - allegedly because Iran is warring with Saudi Arabia? 

IMO, America is waiting for any excuse to invade Iran like they did with Iraq. It's all about protecting the Israel experiment. That is priority number one for the US in its ME affairs. I'd love to see Israel fight it  owns battles but that ain't gonna' happen as long as Uncle Sucker is there to do it for them.

Umm.. it isn't ? 

President Trump has stated that whilst the USA will help defend its ally, it will not take pre-emptive action, and will alllow Saudi Arabia to take the lead in determining what action to take. 

(this is in relation to the missile strikes on the refinery. If Iran does something else mad, like attacking oil tankers or interfering with the worlds Chocolate supply, then all bets are off). 

[+Hammerclaw]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:42 AM, Tatetopa said:

Renewable is not only good for the environment, it is good military strategy.

Potential releasing us from any responsibility of policing The Gulf. Let it go to Hell after it's on fashion, or let the one's reliant on it's oil fully foot the bill.

[Phaeton80]

11 hours ago, and then said:

A better question would be, when was the last time you believed ANY evidence that contradicted your biases?  

You should talk, sweet lord. The man had an extremely valid point, trustworthyness of the Sauds is absolutely deplorable, this is not confirmation bias.

I would add thesame could be said about the US and Israel, given the continuous demonization attempts, at several levels, with intent to target / attack Iran without any real reason besides geo strategical. This could very well be confirmation bias, but I strongly doubt it.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Because we are fools or tools?

It is because people with power and "other people's money" will do with it as they so choose. 
This has been going on since the Korean Conflict, fake wars. Tat, just look at Afghanistan and tell me if American *people* can justify this 20 year war. The friggin' government won't tell us why we are there - not the TRUTH anyway.

Do you recall what they told us our reason was for going into Afghanistan after 911? Most people cannot.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

12 hours ago, and then said:

Name a single war they've had where U.S. troops fought FOR them.  As to them "fighting their own battles" you realize what that will mean if they get pushed to the wall and are about to be defeated, we've discussed it before.  Do you really imagine they wouldn't nuke their enemies?  To say you don't care about that leads me to believe you have a SERIOUS hate going on for those people.  Not just Jews, either.  ALL of the people who'd be killed in the region.  That sounds like justice to you?  If it does, I'd really like to hear your backstory and why you hate these people so much.  Name any other group anywhere in the world that is being denied "justice" that you'd be THAT sanguine about taking the world to the brink for...

There are human rights abuses going on all over the world but  what Israel has done and is continuing to do for that length of time and with so much $upport is not comparable. My contempt for them grows every day, and I can only hope they are taught a good lesson about human rights some day soon.

Sure Israel has fought its own battles but not the invasion of Iraq and now, Iran. "Iran want's to destroy us" - yeah, so...?  Everyone in the ME wants you destroyed, Israel, but it is only Iraq, Iran and Syria that talk the talk all the time. 

So, fight the big boys, Israel. But wait... Why should they?

Edited October 2, 2019 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

It is because people with power and "other people's money" will do with it as they so choose. 
This has been going on since the Korean Conflict, fake wars. Tat, just look at Afghanistan and tell me if American *people* can justify this 20 year war. The friggin' government won't tell us why we are there - not the TRUTH anyway.

Do you recall what they told us our reason was for going into Afghanistan after 911? Most people cannot.

20 years?  Do you really think the U.S. has been in Afgahnistan only 20 years?   "The friggin' government" didn't even tell anyone we had troops over there in the 60's but they were there.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

20 years?  Do you really think the U.S. has been in Afgahnistan only 20 years?   "The friggin' government" didn't even tell anyone we had troops over there in the 60's but they were there.

DR, we certainly backed the Afghans in the '80s to get those bad bad Soviet *occupiers* out! 

Things changed. 911. Ring a bell?