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Eldorado

'Unimaginable' oil prices, warns Saudi prince

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Possible, but unlikely ?  There would have been a high probability of discovery, either before or after launch. 

But would there have been a high probability of publication of said discovery?

Sorry im totally being the conspiracy theory douche I cant stand but personal experience in that part of the world says dont trust anything or anyone.

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Space Commander Travis
25 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

An infiltration squad with 17 drones and.. what.. 9 cruise missiles ? That would take a small convoy of lorries. And the cruise missiles are not like RPG's. They require sophisticated setup procedures before they can be fired with any accuracy. We'd be talking about a team of around 50 strong, many with advanced training.

Saudi Arbabia is a big place, and there's a lot of desert where skilled insurgents could easily lose themselves. And these things are essentially like large radio controlled planes, you could easily hide them inside a pickup truck,. Advanced training would just mean being able to set up GPS coordinates really, or even to fly them directly by radio control if they were within visual distance, or if they had a small camera on them,.  

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome
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Space Commander Travis
2 hours ago, and then said:

I assume that to be a rhetorical question?  They could set up cameras and wait for the next SA attack, show them being launched from Iran and even cite Iranians bragging about it and these shills still wouldn't care.  Fortunately, their opinion on national policy matters only to themselves.

national policy? What does doing what Saudi Arabia tells them to because they're too cowardly to do it themselves got to do with America's national interests? 

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RoofGardener
50 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Saudi Arbabia is a big place, and there's a lot of desert where skilled insurgents could easily lose themselves. And these things are essentially like large radio controlled planes, you could easily hide them inside a pickup truck,. Advanced training would just mean being able to set up GPS coordinates really, or even to fly them directly by radio control if they were within visual distance, or if they had a small camera on them,.  

Indeed dumbledore.. except they would need about 30 of these pickup trucks... assuming that the cruise missiles would even FIT in a pickup truck. That would be a somewhat large convoy. So large that it might even show up on satellites. 

And all of those pickup trucks - and the equipment they where carrying - would have to cross borders to get into Iraq, and then travel long distances in Iraq to get within firing range. 

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ethereal_scout

Time to invest in Hydrogen Power....

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and then
7 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Indeed dumbledore.. except they would need about 30 of these pickup trucks... assuming that the cruise missiles would even FIT in a pickup truck. That would be a somewhat large convoy. So large that it might even show up on satellites. 

And all of those pickup trucks - and the equipment they where carrying - would have to cross borders to get into Iraq, and then travel long distances in Iraq to get within firing range. 

You have to get really creative when your default position is to ignore what the U.S. military's intel assets say happened.  Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, er, so to speak.  Iran did it - and will almost certainly do something like it again - because they need sanctions relief SOON and have no plan to stop their moves in the gulf.  All we have to do is wait and watch.

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and then
8 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

national policy? What does doing what Saudi Arabia tells them to because they're too cowardly to do it themselves got to do with America's national interests? 

Keeping Iran from pushing Israel into NUKING THEIR ASS is national policy.  But I get it, you really don't see the point in that.  OR, alternatively, might like to see Israel forced into such a situation. 'Cause, Orange man and JOOS.  You folks amaze me far more than I, you.

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The Caspian Hare
22 hours ago, and then said:

Sounds good, looking a bit further down the road for the consequences it would bring tells another story though.  We didn't want to be bothered with Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated either.  That choice didn't have very positive outcomes for us.  Leaving Islamic fundies in power and unharried will not end well for us either.  Fight there or fight here but fight we will.  Because THEY INSIST.

 

Houthis were fighting against al Qaeda. Their goals are local and confined to their own country. 

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Black Red Devil
21 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

I would say it's a good bit different since you are implying that all of these nations are making their decisions off of pictures supplied by Saudi Arabia instead of having their own investigation teams looking at the evidence.

So when presented with stuff that proves your opinion wrong you go from being so sure in yourself to saying wait for the experts, while still throwing in your impossibility high barrier of acceptable evidence.  Also nice racial dig at the Saudi prince, real good show of character there.

:lol: You've proven absolutely nothing and I've always been skeptical until given solid substantial evidence.  Has there been any so far?  No, so why would I believe my opinion wrong.  Just laughable!

The 'experts' are still bumbling around after 3 weeks with providing the evidence, yet Trump, Pompeo et all were quick to jump to conclusions and announce to the world Iranian responsibility the following day.  This was enough for you to jump straight in and point the finger at Iran and then you get all uppity when someone says you gobble up all the c..p Trump and friends splurt.

Let me ask you some questions, don't you think after three weeks they would have had enough time to concoct enough evidence?  Don't you also think they would have been flagging this in prime time television to the world if they did? Are you really that naive to believe in everything that comes out of Washington without question?

I wasn't aware 'sand' was a race!  Just to point out so you don't get too flustered, the sand digger reference wasn't about geography, it was about digging graves or hiding away 'bit's and pieces' of evidence of murders gone wrong.

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Black Red Devil
6 hours ago, and then said:

You have to get really creative when your default position is to ignore what the U.S. military's intel assets say happened.  Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, er, so to speak.  Iran did it - and will almost certainly do something like it again - because they need sanctions relief SOON and have no plan to stop their moves in the gulf.  All we have to do is wait and watch.

Like when they claimed Saddam had WMD? 

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Black Red Devil
6 hours ago, and then said:

Keeping Iran from pushing Israel into NUKING THEIR ASS is national policy.  But I get it, you really don't see the point in that.  OR, alternatively, might like to see Israel forced into such a situation. 'Cause, Orange man and JOOS.  You folks amaze me far more than I, you.

You should place this statement proudly as part of your signature.  Just so people are aware of your stance on world peace and who you think are the most dangerous nuclear proliferation nations in the world.

No, believe me, you need to be amazed more about yourself. 

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DarkHunter
22 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

:lol: You've proven absolutely nothing and I've always been skeptical until given solid substantial evidence.  Has there been any so far?  No, so why would I believe my opinion wrong.  Just laughable!

The 'experts' are still bumbling around after 3 weeks with providing the evidence, yet Trump, Pompeo et all were quick to jump to conclusions and announce to the world Iranian responsibility the following day.  This was enough for you to jump straight in and point the finger at Iran and then you get all uppity when someone says you gobble up all the c..p Trump and friends splurt.

Let me ask you some questions, don't you think after three weeks they would have had enough time to concoct enough evidence?  Don't you also think they would have been flagging this in prime time television to the world if they did? Are you really that naive to believe in everything that comes out of Washington without question?

I wasn't aware 'sand' was a race!  Just to point out so you don't get too flustered, the sand digger reference wasn't about geography, it was about digging graves or hiding away 'bit's and pieces' of evidence of murders gone wrong.

Most people would consider debris from 18 drones and 7 cruise missiles as substantial proof, seems others would require to be present during the planning, watching the launch, and arriving to watch the impact of the targeted site to have enough proof.

Claiming I'm getting uppity when you throw around racial insults and cant argue your point without turning to personal insults.  Ever consider they were quick to jump to conclusions cause they got evidence that the general population does not have access to.

Once again you are showing your bias by assuming the evidence is being concocted but depending on how detailed they want to get in the investigation it may or may not be enough time to investigate the attack.  As for showing this as you put it on prime time, that is the single most idiotic thing that could be done from a geostrategical perspective.  Doing so would guarantee that Saudi Arabia would have to take military action against Iran while clearly showing Iran to be the aggressor which would without doubt spark a massive regional war that would threaten approximately a third of the world's energy supply.  Claiming I'm naive when you cant even explain the massive holes in the narrative you so desperately want to be true.

Now you are just being sad and pathetic, you and everyone else clearly knows what you were going for your racial attack, at least be man enough to admit and not attempt what would be expected from a 4 year old, it just makes you look juvenile and pathetic.

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Black Red Devil
21 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Most people would consider debris from 18 drones and 7 cruise missiles as substantial proof, seems others would require to be present during the planning, watching the launch, and arriving to watch the impact of the targeted site to have enough proof.

Claiming I'm getting uppity when you throw around racial insults and cant argue your point without turning to personal insults.  Ever consider they were quick to jump to conclusions cause they got evidence that the general population does not have access to.

Once again you are showing your bias by assuming the evidence is being concocted but depending on how detailed they want to get in the investigation it may or may not be enough time to investigate the attack.  As for showing this as you put it on prime time, that is the single most idiotic thing that could be done from a geostrategical perspective.  Doing so would guarantee that Saudi Arabia would have to take military action against Iran while clearly showing Iran to be the aggressor which would without doubt spark a massive regional war that would threaten approximately a third of the world's energy supply. 

What racial attack and what insults?  Since you've made the accusations point them out. 

So here's your rationality, they were quick to jump to conclusions and announce to the world it was done by Iran but it would have been idiotic (your words, implying that I proposed something idiotic, meaning I'm an idiot, hence insulting me) if put on prime time television (which is the same as announcing to the world) without thorough evidence.  So in other words they still are unable after 3 weeks to show the Iranians were responsible despite claiming they were after a day of the incident.  Yet, you believe their story while I'm awaiting for proper evidence and I'm the biased one. :rofl:

21 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Claiming I'm naive when you cant even explain the massive holes in the narrative you so desperately want to be true.

 

What narrative?  Confused are we?  The only one spurting out narratives is you, quoting missiles, directions, distances...  My simple 'narrative' is that I'm awaiting for solid evidence from neutral and believable sources, surely not your two cents worth.

21 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Now you are just being sad and pathetic, you and everyone else clearly knows what you were going for your racial attack, at least be man enough to admit and not attempt what would be expected from a 4 year old, it just makes you look juvenile and pathetic.

Well looky here.  More offensive language and more accusations.  Did my opinions hurt your feelings?  :passifier:

Edited by Black Red Devil

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DarkHunter
38 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

What racial attack and what insults?  Since you've made the accusations point them out. 

The sand digger is a clear racial attack on the Saudi prince, your sad explanation of what you meant doesnt fool anyone.  As for the insults it's just about any time you reference me.

39 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

So here's your rationality, they were quick to jump to conclusions and announce to the world it was done by Iran but it would have been idiotic (your words, implying that I proposed something idiotic, meaning I'm an idiot, hence insulting me) if put on prime time television (which is the same as announcing to the world) without thorough evidence.  So in other words they still are unable after 3 weeks to show the Iranians were responsible despite claiming they were after a day of the incident.  Yet, you believe their story while I'm awaiting for proper evidence and I'm the biased one. :rofl:

First there is a vast difference between saying an idea is idiotic and a person, clearly you cant understand the difference which isnt surprising given your childish nature.  What I'm saying is after 3 weeks we have no idea of the state of the investigation, we have multiple European countries coming out and blaming Iran, and being overly hasty and forcing Saudi Arabia into a position where they must strike back militarily while also ensuring Iran can not have any means of deescalation would be the worst possible decision to make and would guarantee a massive regional war.

41 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

What narrative?  Confused are we?  The only one spurting out narratives is you, quoting missiles, directions, distances...  My simple 'narrative' is that I'm awaiting for solid evidence from neutral and believable sources, surely not your two cents worth.

You believing the Iranian claim of innocence and the Houthi claim of being responsible for the attack.  Problem with claiming to wait for evidence is that you stated before your impossibly high barrier for acceptable evidence and you write off just about every source except for Iran and the Houthis as biased.  You can keep trying claiming to be neutral but you clearly arent.

43 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Well looky here.  More offensive language and more accusations.  Did my opinions hurt your feelings?  :passifier:

I wouldnt call anything I said offensive language, especially coming from the one trying to avoid the forum censor and throw around racial insults.

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and then
6 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Like when they claimed Saddam had WMD? 

I happen to remember the run-up to those days of "shock and awe" quite well.  MULTIPLE LARGE CONVOYS went from Iraq into Syria and no one knows what was in those trucks so teach your granny to suck eggs...I don't need your propaganda expertise, devil-boy.

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and then
7 hours ago, The Caspian Hare said:

 

Houthis were fighting against al Qaeda. Their goals are local and confined to their own country. 

Got that the from where, exactly?  I suppose you also believe that Iran is sinking hundreds of millions into Yemen out of love and affection for their Shia brethren?  The Houthis may have a limited plan but as we see in Syria, the mullahs exact a price for their help.  No offense but I trust Mossad more than you or even our CIA scum.

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, and then said:

I happen to remember the run-up to those days of "shock and awe" quite well.  MULTIPLE LARGE CONVOYS went from Iraq into Syria and no one knows what was in those trucks so teach your granny to suck eggs...I don't need your propaganda expertise, devil-boy.

 

Are you sure you arent Borat?

I mean youre positive youre not trolling us all with an extreme caricature of a stereotypically uneducated , bitter and impotent Alabaman like Borat did in that series?

Theres no way youre real right? :lol:

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RoofGardener

Well @Black Red Devil; what would YOU consider convincing proof ? 

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Black Red Devil
10 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

The sand digger is a clear racial attack on the Saudi prince, your sad explanation of what you meant doesnt fool anyone.  As for the insults it's just about any time you reference me.

First there is a vast difference between saying an idea is idiotic and a person, clearly you cant understand the difference which isnt surprising given your childish nature.  What I'm saying is after 3 weeks we have no idea of the state of the investigation, we have multiple European countries coming out and blaming Iran, and being overly hasty and forcing Saudi Arabia into a position where they must strike back militarily while also ensuring Iran can not have any means of deescalation would be the worst possible decision to make and would guarantee a massive regional war.

You believing the Iranian claim of innocence and the Houthi claim of being responsible for the attack.  Problem with claiming to wait for evidence is that you stated before your impossibly high barrier for acceptable evidence and you write off just about every source except for Iran and the Houthis as biased.  You can keep trying claiming to be neutral but you clearly arent.

I wouldnt call anything I said offensive language, especially coming from the one trying to avoid the forum censor and throw around racial insults.

Man, you're just a waste of time.  You're theories are a waste of reading space, you carry on like a kid because someone doesn't accept them and then spit the dummy and lose control.  Everyone can see who is insulting who and your racial accusations are just a pitiful attempt to find something to accuse me with.  As if I really give a rats what you think. Go ahead and report the so called 'offenses', good luck with that and most importantly, bye-bye.   :st

 

Edited by Black Red Devil

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Black Red Devil
4 hours ago, and then said:

I happen to remember the run-up to those days of "shock and awe" quite well.  MULTIPLE LARGE CONVOYS went from Iraq into Syria and no one knows what was in those trucks so teach your granny to suck eggs...I don't need your propaganda expertise, devil-boy.

Yeah I know, it doesn't suit your agenda. 

'MULTIPLE LARGE CONVOYS went from Iraq into Syria and no one knows what was in those trucks'

Wow, the Conspiracy Theory grapevine is running hot today.  I actually never heard this version.  How do you keep all the truths out, do you put on a foil hat at night or does a balaclava do the trick?

 

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Black Red Devil
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well @Black Red Devil; what would YOU consider convincing proof ? 

How about an independent investigation by the UN? Usually when a country is looking for international support after an attack it would normally call for an emergency meeting of the Security Council.

The Saudi's didn't, why?

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The Caspian Hare
8 hours ago, and then said:

Got that the from where, exactly?  I suppose you also believe that Iran is sinking hundreds of millions into Yemen out of love and affection for their Shia brethren?  The Houthis may have a limited plan but as we see in Syria, the mullahs exact a price for their help.  No offense but I trust Mossad more than you or even our CIA scum.

:lol: Seriously dude? You won't meet a bigger deplorable, right-wing American nationalist than me, but our power is being squandered in a pointless war. (And there's the humanitarian aspect too, famine / cholera / refugees / civilian war deaths) 

Iran supports them as part of their regional competition with Saudi Arabia, but that doesn't mean houthi are puppets who take orders from Tehran. The Houthis were previously fighting against al-Qaeda for their own ideological reasons. That is open knowledge.

From 4 years ago:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-u-s-fight-against-al-qaeda-in-yemen-just-got-harder/

Quote

 

There certainly is a relationship with Iran. The extent to which Iran is dictating the Houthis decisions and movements right now? Not so much. There are a lot of local grievances in Yemen. It’s not like every single move they do is somehow dictated by Iran. Iran tried to increase its influence in Yemen since 2011. It saw an opening when the [Arab Spring] protests started. I spoke to young Houthi activists who were flown to Tehran to attend [ideological] conferences. It seems that they’re also financially backed by Iran.

Certainly, the Houthis are an enemy of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia sees them as being an extension of Tehran in Yemen.

Part of Houthi rhethoric is anti-American, but their actions have not been anti-Western — yet. The Houthis have been against Al Qaeda, for sectarian reasons. Al Qaeda encroached upon their territory in northern Yemen.

 

You can find other sources if you look.

A war with Iran or with the Houthis is a war of choice, not a war of necessity. Frankly, this hostility towards Iran is pointless. Saudi Arabia is at least as bad at destabilizing the region with this disastrous and failed war. Hell, Saudi Arabia has destabilized the West through the exporting of Wahabbi ideology. Although it does use terrorism, Iran doesn't launch regular mass casualty attacks in the West the way ISIS or AQ do.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

How about an independent investigation by the UN? Usually when a country is looking for international support after an attack it would normally call for an emergency meeting of the Security Council.

The Saudi's didn't, why?

For those with short memories, just before the US invaded Iraq, the UN had a team in Iraq looking for WoMD and were about half way done with their inspection. Bush told them to get out of Iraq because the US was coming in! Hans Blix was the head of that UN inspection team and he was major league p!ssed over this because his team was almost finished. But he and team left.

So the media asked Bush why he did not want to want to wait for Blix and team to finish their inspection. Bush said he did not want to wait for this to end up in a "mushroom cloud"!!  

There is no way that Iraq had the many laboratories to begin such a project (Iran has 15 or more) and you can't ship laboratories into Syria. So Bush  LIED.  They did a lot of lying. They said Saddam dropped sarin gas on an Kurd entire village - proven to be a total fabrication. They said Saddam used Sarin on Iranian troops - they used mustard gas. They lied over and over again just to make it *look* like Iraq should be taken out.

As far as WoMD are concerned, I would never ever believe the US Intel when they say that the WoMD were smuggled out to begin with. But there were no laboratories in Iraq. Maybe he had *some* poisons, I don't know but he clearly was nowhere near starting the production of nuclear material to make a bomb. There was no yellow cake as the US insisted.  LIED. 

On the issue of "nuclear": Just observe Israel who blew up an Iraq nuclear power plant, 1980. Had Iraq been working on the bomb, Israel would have blown up all of their laboratories involved in that production. Israel never said or did anything.

Game set match. They never had nukes, nor were they processing yellow cake into war grade uranium/plutonium.

Am I to trust American Intel? Never. 

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RoofGardener
4 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

How about an independent investigation by the UN? Usually when a country is looking for international support after an attack it would normally call for an emergency meeting of the Security Council.

The Saudi's didn't, why?

Has any country ever done that ? Is there a precedent for it ? (e.g. asking for a 3rd party investigation into an attack against them ? ). 

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Space Commander Travis

The U.S. certainly didn't after 9,11, did it. Nor did the UK "government" after the Novichock Affair, did it. They made very careful that no one else could check the validity of their claims. Maybe there ought to be a United Nations department to do such a thing.  

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