Double Binds

[+Desertrat56]

41 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

@Desertrat56 

Thanks for sharing that story there. Sorry you had to go through that. 

I'd say a lot of us have stories of dealing with people like that unfortunately.

Yes, thank you for starting this thread.  I'm sorry you also had to go through stuff with your mom.  I am sure a lot of us have. 

I found the video interesting and a confirmation that my decisions 20 years ago on how to deal the with the old man were the only rational way to go about it.  I was about 35 when I started calling him on his "shiiit" but he did have the habit of turning it around on me and I would just end it by saying I know you know I am right and walk away.  He could still get at me though.  And he only apologized to me once in order to get me to come visit him.  

My friend had a different kind of manipulation growing up.  Her mother was a hoverer and always tried to do everything as if my friend was not capable.  She was very nice with her words,   It was funny how I enjoyed visiting her family because I didn't have to do anything, and she enjoyed visiting my family because we were on our own and expected to take care of everyone else.  (she wasn't expected to but enjoyed not being waited on hand and foot)

If there were such a thing as a functional family support group there would be 2 out of every 20,000 people in it. 

[Aquila King]

9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

My friend had a different kind of manipulation growing up.  Her mother was a hoverer and always tried to do everything as if my friend was not capable. 

That describes a fair bit of my own mother. Rather than trust anyone to do their own jobs, she feels she has to essentially butt in and do it for them. Of course whenever I actually do a job, I get subjected with a constant stream of criticism of how I'm not doing it properly, and she proceeds to gaslight me on how there's something mentally wrong with me for not being able to accomplish such basic tasks without her intervention. Then she has to take over. It left me feeling completely unprepared for the real world, I felt completely incompetent, and gave me little to no confidence in my own abilities. I've spent years thinking that I myself had a bunch of major mental health problems, but come to find out that I've for the most part just been suffering from years and years of psychological abuse from my narcissistic mother.

Anyway, that's enough of me ranting here. I'll just save it for the therapist tomorrow. 

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

That describes a fair bit of my own mother. Rather than trust anyone to do their own jobs, she feels she has to essentially butt in and do it for them. Of course whenever I actually do a job, I get subjected with a constant stream of criticism of how I'm not doing it properly, and she proceeds to gaslight me on how there's something mentally wrong with me for not being able to accomplish such basic tasks without her intervention. Then she has to take over. It left me feeling completely unprepared for the real world, I felt completely incompetent, and gave me little to no confidence in my own abilities. I've spent years thinking that I myself had a bunch of major mental health problems, but come to find out that I've for the most part just been suffering from years and years of psychological abuse from my narcissistic mother.

Anyway, that's enough of me ranting here. I'll just save it for the therapist tomorrow. 

Oh my.  My friend was just given guilt about not letting her mother take care of her.  Her mother was just a bit crazy and clingly, not really narcissistic. 

[Aquila King]

58 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Oh my.  My friend was just given guilt about not letting her mother take care of her.  Her mother was just a bit crazy and clingly, not really narcissistic. 

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest her mother was. Just reminded me of some of my own mother's behavior is all.

[+Sherapy]

On 10/5/2019 at 12:16 PM, RabidMongoose said:

I tempted not to reply to you with the best piece of advice you will ever here which is - `do it back, and never stop doing it back`

RM, leaving the situation is the best plan, if you can. Now, some situations are impossible to leave it could be job or a parent etc.etc. 

I am not suggesting this will change the other person it will not, but it will let you focus on finding the things you can do to help yourself. It  isn’t the worst thing to have a damn good stress mgt. system in place, of course, at the time it isn’t fun and no one should deal with high levels of stress, but until you have  a better plan...

On my last job, we had a tyrannical boss who enjoyed being mean to others, I was her PA and I would hear her say after yelling at someone or picking on them that she loved upsetting people she thought it was fun. 

Three co workers banded together 2 of us quit immediately, we found other jobs easily in our field, we are caregivers so there is a lot of work. I will not keep a job that harms others, this woman didn’t pay her employees according to the law either and we helped a lot of employees file claims at labor board once we left that made us feel more empowered and it really did help others. 

We got her legally, not out of hate but as one coworker said maybe she will do better, she probably won’t but we all are and hopefully she learns a better way.

The third lady had to stay she couldn’t find another job she was in management, so we helped her cope by being there for her, and she did a lot of things to help her stress level become survivable, ran after work, and she could text me anytime when it was unbearable to vent, and she looked for another job, it took her a year to get another job and managing her stress was a lot on her. But, she ended up with a fantastic new job and she too has left. She did have high blood pressure working at that level of stress took its toll on her, but with medical from her new job she has it handled. 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

On 10/5/2019 at 1:04 PM, RabidMongoose said:

You realise anybody here who has had a run in with a narcissist and successfully dealt with them is likely to tell you to do it back to them as well? For some reason you are intent on treating other people nicely, which includes the ones you shouldn't be. 

The bully bullies people who dont stand up for themselves. If the narcissist knows you will do it back to them they will normally back off.

Bullies don’t change even when you bully them back. 

They need therapy not a justification to bully more. 

[+Desertrat56]

6 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest her mother was. Just reminded me of some of my own mother's behavior is all.

I understand.  There are spectrums I think, because guilt is one of the narcissist's tools.

[Duke Wellington]

20 hours ago, Sherapy said:

RM, leaving the situation is the best plan, if you can. Now, some situations are impossible to leave it could be job or a parent etc.etc. 

I am not suggesting this will change the other person it will not, but it will let you focus on finding the things you can do to help yourself. It  isn’t the worst thing to have a damn good stress mgt. system in place, of course, at the time it isn’t fun and no one should deal with high levels of stress, but until you have  a better plan...

On my last job, we had a tyrannical boss who enjoyed being mean to others, I was her PA and I would hear her say after yelling at someone or picking on them that she loved upsetting people she thought it was fun. 

Three co workers banded together 2 of us quit immediately, we found other jobs easily in our field, we are caregivers so there is a lot of work. I will not keep a job that harms others, this woman didn’t pay her employees according to the law either and we helped a lot of employees file claims at labor board once we left that made us feel more empowered and it really did help others. 

We got her legally, not out of hate but as one coworker said maybe she will do better, she probably won’t but we all are and hopefully she learns a better way.

The third lady had to stay she couldn’t find another job she was in management, so we helped her cope by being there for her, and she did a lot of things to help her stress level become survivable, ran after work, and she could text me anytime when it was unbearable to vent, and she looked for another job, it took her a year to get another job and managing her stress was a lot on her. But, she ended up with a fantastic new job and she too has left. She did have high blood pressure working at that level of stress took its toll on her, but with medical from her new job she has it handled. 

 

Instead of leaving, see it as an opportunity to learn to deal with a difficult person.

When it comes to dealing with a tyrannical boss or nightmare colleague the first thing to realise is they all have something wrong going on with them. You might not be able to uncover what exactly without some psychology awareness but their behaviour is their maladaptive coping mechanism.

If you watch how other people interact with them then look out for any subtle comments that put them on edge, stress them out, make them upset, make them angry, make them bite back, or leave them looking like they are on alert. Take note of what was said and begin to figure out which button in the conversation was pressed. It will reveal what their `hidden weaknesses` are.

Alternatively, or in combination, invent stories about what you did at the weekend. Here are some examples:

Birthday Parties/Girls Night Out: You want to be excited and upbeat and loud about telling everyone around you what a fantastic night out you had with your friends. Does your target look stressed or like they are going to cry? If so they have no friends and are unpopular. Get pressing that button! Tell lots of stories about you out enjoying yourself with your friends.

Comment on Rainy Weather: Start up conversations with the nightmare colleague saying things like `it looks so depressed out there` or `the weather is a bit bipolar this week, it keeps going from one extreme to the other`. Do they look upset? Are they on edge? Are they stressed? Do they bite back? If so you found a button. Start up similar conversations with them whenever you can and whenever they look like they are going to cry pass comments like `I think its going to rain` or `I think we are in for a wet October` or `its looking a bit gloomy` etc.

Comment on that film you watched: If you have a nightmare female colleague who seems frequently short-tempered, angry, and aggressive then this is a good one to try. You want to tell them how you have been watching the Madeline McCann series on Netflix and all about how you think they are paedophiles. You are looking for an impact to test if your nightmare colleague is the way that they are because they got sexually abused. Another good one for men and women nightmare colleagues is to talk about how you watched a documentary about war veterans with PTSD and all about how they are set off by things in their environments which remind them of their trauma. Reacting to PTSD stories means its very liked they got abused.

Those should get you started. Whenever you start a new job your mission for the first month should be to uncover the hidden weaknesses of your colleagues. Then if you turn out to have a tyrannical boss or nightmare colleague you can turn the screws on them. That should be done as followed:

First time they bully you: Press their buttons a few times going for something obvious about their appearance. If they are tall, short, fat, thin, beautiful, ugly, intelligent, dumb, old, young, you want to start up innocent sounding conversations to everyone else which have plenty of trigger words in. Like `I`m starving, I`m tempted to go to the butty shop for dinner and get one of their large Coronation Chicken batons, but they look so huge, and I`m on a diet because I`m trying to be healthy and lose weight. After my aunty had a heart attack for being obese I have decided from now on to look after my waistline`. You get the idea.

Second time they bully you: Press the buttons a few times for their hidden weaknesses. 

Third Time they bully you: You have twice tried to give them the brush off so now go in for the kill. Your aim is to submerse them in high levels of stress and anxiety giving them a panic disorder, insomnia, and heart palpitations. All you have to do is take their obvious buttons and hidden buttons and press them relentlessly for a month. When they come in looking tired dont forget to comment on it `you look tired today` or `whats wrong? You know I cannot tell if you are upset or just tired` and in your nicest caring manner possible ask `are you alright?` as these will make them emotional.

After a month of torture you would have got your message across with most tyrannical bosses or nightmare colleagues. You will have put them in the position where they know that if they keep targeting you then you`re going to end up killing them with something like a heart attack. Their need to survive normally overrides whatever issue they have going on. If they are still a nightmare then you have to face facts. You either leave and find yourself another job or you destroy them.

The longest I have seen someone go is three months before we came into the office and found him sat under his desk crying his eyes out and having severe shaking all because it was raining outside lol. They sent him home on stress leave and he never came back.

who yells at people to upset them is normally bi-polar or depressed. They are getting off on controlling other peoples emotions and enjoying the sadistic kick upsetting them provides. If you adopt the same approach to other people whenever you are having a stressful day you will discover playing with other peoples emotions and the sadistic kick you get from it makes you feel better. Thats what your manager was getting out of it - feeling better. Its easy to tell if its depression or bi-polar too because the bi-polar one very likely also be a control freak. Controlling everything also makes them feel better as it gives them a serotonin surge.

On top of all of the above save peoples weaknesses for when they need to be punished for something. Did you work hard but your manager didnt give you a pay rise? Time to do some upwards bullying by pressing their buttons.

If you ever have the misfortune of working for a high-functioning sociopath you will have seen all of the above in action. Watch what the disorder do, they can teach you how to bully. And bullying the bully does normally change them when they realise if they dont stop you will end up killing them.

Instead of going through life as a empath, be an empath that can apply their dark side when needed. It will totally change how people are towards you.

Edited October 7, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[+Sherapy]

12 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Instead of leaving, see it as an opportunity to learn to deal with a difficult person.

When it comes to dealing with a tyrannical boss or nightmare colleague the first thing to realise is they all have something wrong going on with them. You might not be able to uncover what exactly without some psychology awareness but their behaviour is their maladaptive coping mechanism.

If you watch how other people interact with them then look out for any subtle comments that put them on edge, stress them out, make them upset, make them angry, make them bite back, or leave them looking like they are on alert. Take note of what was said and begin to figure out which button in the conversation was pressed. It will reveal what their `hidden weaknesses` are.

Alternatively, or in combination, invent stories about what you did at the weekend. Here are some examples:

Birthday Parties/Girls Night Out: You want to be excited and upbeat and loud about telling everyone around you what a fantastic night out you had with your friends. Does your target look stressed or like they are going to cry? If so they have no friends and are unpopular. Get pressing that button! Tell lots of stories about you out enjoying yourself with your friends.

Comment on Rainy Weather: Start up conversations with the nightmare colleague saying things like `it looks so depressed out there` or `the weather is a bit bipolar this week, it keeps going from one extreme to the other`. Do they look upset? Are they on edge? Are they stressed? Do they bite back? If so you found a button. Start up similar conversations with them whenever you can and whenever they look like they are going to cry pass comments like `I think its going to rain` or `I think we are in for a wet October` or `its looking a bit gloomy` etc.

Comment on that film you watched: If you have a nightmare female colleague who seems frequently short-tempered, angry, and aggressive then this is a good one to try. You want to tell them how you have been watching the Madeline McCann series on Netflix and all about how you think they are paedophiles. You are looking for an impact to test if your nightmare colleague is the way that they are because they got sexually abused. Another good one for men and women nightmare colleagues is to talk about how you watched a documentary about war veterans with PTSD and all about how they are set off by things in their environments which remind them of their trauma. Reacting to PTSD stories means its very liked they got abused.

Those should get you started. Whenever you start a new job your mission for the first month should be to uncover the hidden weaknesses of your colleagues. Then if you turn out to have a tyrannical boss or nightmare colleague you can turn the screws on them. That should be done as followed:

First time they bully you: Press their buttons a few times going for something obvious about their appearance. If they are tall, short, fat, thin, beautiful, ugly, intelligent, dumb, old, young, you want to start up innocent sounding conversations to everyone else which have plenty of trigger words in. Like `I`m starving, I`m tempted to go to the butty shop for dinner and get one of their large Coronation Chicken batons, but they look so huge, and I`m on a diet because I`m trying to be healthy and lose weight. After my aunty had a heart attack for being obese I have decided from now on to look after my waistline`. You get the idea.

Second time they bully you: Press the buttons a few times for their hidden weaknesses. 

Third Time they bully you: You have twice tried to give them the brush off so now go in for the kill. Your aim is to submerse them in high levels of stress and anxiety giving them a panic disorder, insomnia, and heart palpitations. All you have to do is take their obvious buttons and hidden buttons and press them relentlessly for a month. When they come in looking tired dont forget to comment on it `you look tired today` or `whats wrong? You know I cannot tell if you are upset or just tired` and in your nicest caring manner possible ask `are you alright?` as these will make them emotional.

After a month of torture you would have got your message across with most tyrannical bosses or nightmare colleagues. You will have put them in the position where they know that if they keep targeting you then you`re going to end up killing them with something like a heart attack. Their need to survive normally overrides whatever issue they have going on. If they are still a nightmare then you have to face facts. You either leave and find yourself another job or you destroy them.

The longest I have seen someone go is three months before we came into the office and found him sat under his desk crying his eyes out and having severe shaking all because it was raining outside lol. They sent him home on stress leave and he never came back.

who yells at people to upset them is normally bi-polar or depressed. They are getting off on controlling other peoples emotions and enjoying the sadistic kick upsetting them provides. If you adopt the same approach to other people whenever you are having a stressful day you will discover playing with other peoples emotions and the sadistic kick you get from it makes you feel better. Thats what your manager was getting out of it - feeling better. Its easy to tell if its depression or bi-polar too because the bi-polar one very likely also be a control freak. Controlling everything also makes them feel better as it gives them a serotonin surge.

On top of all of the above save peoples weaknesses for when they need to be punished for something. Did you work hard but your manager didnt give you a pay rise? Time to do some upwards bullying by pressing their buttons.

If you ever have the misfortune of working for a high-functioning sociopath you will have seen all of the above in action. Watch what the disorder do, they can teach you how to bully. And bullying the bully does normally change them when they realise if they dont stop you will end up killing them.

While I would just find another job, you have some interesting strategies. 

We were a company of fifty plus, the closest I saw some coworkers deal with her was not to have her in their day to day, yet even then these same employees quit many times to end up going back for various reasons. 

Colorful post.

 

[Duke Wellington]

16 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

While I would just find another job, you have some interesting strategies. 

We were a company of fifty plus, the closest I saw some coworkers deal with her was not to have her in their day to day, yet even then these same employees quit many times to end up going back for various reasons. 

Colorful post.

 

Ignoring helps reduce the number of stressful experiences.

Ignoring as a punishment only works on attention seekers and then there is a more effective means of turning the screws. That is to become the attention seeker yourself whenever around them and suck up all the attention leaving little for them. Attention seekers hate attention seekers.

When we get stressed one of the hormones that gets released (I dont remember which one) is actually addictive. That keeps us going back to battle against the person who has wronged us. The person who left will be thinking if only I did this or that I would have won, and back they end up going for more abuse.

An alternative to ignoring a nightmare employee is to interact with them as much as humanly possible, but to creep them out.

The first step of doing this is to become them. Copy their haircut, their clothes, their language style and sayings, rename your partner to the name of their partner, tell them you have a dog too with the same name, eat the same food as them, have the same interests as them, and when someone new comes to your team and asks you what you are called then use their name. Hopefully this will make your nightmare colleague avoid you like the plague instead of targeting you.

If it doesnt work you could do something like start turning up outside their house every morning waiting for them silently to come out. Once they think you are crazy and creepy they will not only leave you alone, but get away from you as fast as possible.

Edited October 7, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Ignoring helps reduce the number of stressful experiences.

Ignoring as a punishment only works on attention seekers and then there is a more effective means of turning the screws. That is to become the attention seeker yourself whenever around them and suck up all the attention leaving little for them. Attention seekers hate attention seekers.

When we get stressed one of the hormones that gets released (I dont remember which one) is actually addictive. That keeps us going back to battle against the person who has wronged us. The person who left will be thinking if only I did this or that I would have won, and back they end up going for more abuse.

An alternative to ignoring a nightmare employee is to interact with them as much as humanly possible, but to creep them out.

The first step of doing this is to become them. Copy their haircut, their clothes, their language style and sayings, rename your partner to the name of their partner, tell them you have a dog too with the same name, eat the same food as them, have the same interests as them, and when someone new comes to your team and asks you what you are called then use their name. Hopefully this will make your nightmare colleague avoid you like the plague instead of targeting them.

If it doesnt work you could do something like start turning up outside their house every morning waiting for them silently to come out. Once they think you are crazy and creepy they will not only leave you alone, but get away from you as fast as possible.

You are funny and entertaining to read to say the least. 

 

[+Desertrat56]

Here is a perfect example of how to be a narcissitic bully.