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acute

Serious Research into Ghosts?

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XenoFish
6 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I'm sure this is probably true in some cases. Just seems strange to me though. There are plenty of examples of perfectly normal people who claimed to have some type of unexplainable experience. I think if our minds could just create paranormal experiences, like all of them that have ever been claimed, we'd see similar things in every aspect of life. Yet we don't. At least with normal people.

Taken from a different thread.

https://theconversation.com/psychotic-experiences-are-quite-common-even-among-people-who-dont-have-a-mental-health-condition-124236

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openozy
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Well that's a reassuring article,I'm not buying into that for a second as far as paranormal experiences go.

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Davros of Skaro
8 hours ago, openozy said:

Well that's a reassuring article,I'm not buying into that for a second as far as paranormal experiences go.

"The human brain has long been known to perceive things that aren't there—from phantom limbs to patterns in chaos. But a new study from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) shows for the first time that it is surprisingly quick to bend reality when normal perception is disrupted. The results were published yesterday in The Journal of Neuroscience"

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-adapts-in-a-blink/

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openozy
13 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

"The human brain has long been known to perceive things that aren't there—from phantom limbs to patterns in chaos. But a new study from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) shows for the first time that it is surprisingly quick to bend reality when normal perception is disrupted. The results were published yesterday in The Journal of Neuroscience"

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-adapts-in-a-blink/

Very interesting but nothing to do with the paranormal.Your brain doesn't pick you up and throw you against a wall upside down.

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Davros of Skaro
16 minutes ago, openozy said:

Very interesting but nothing to do with the paranormal.Your brain doesn't pick you up and throw you against a wall upside down.

If you call it bad names it might.

 

^.^

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openozy
1 hour ago, Davros of Skaro said:

If you call it bad names it might.

 

^.^

Give it a go and get back to me.

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Tatetopa
On 10/7/2019 at 11:02 AM, papageorge1 said:

Are you sure of that? Could they be doing preliminary investigations and scrapping further investigations and a TV episode?

That might be a way to do it.  You couldn't get sponsors or viewers for a show that 11 episodes out of 12 the crew just went home and said, "Maybe next time."    But you would have to be filming and ready on every occasion or you might miss something.  Cost and mental fatigue would be large.

If you really found something, would you wait until the end of the season to air it?  You would if you wanted maximum viewership and sponsors for the season. This seems to be the formula for Alien investigations, Bigfoot investigations, ghosts, monsters, buried treasures and such.  You have to really sex up the failures as near misses and tease the viewers along with getting really close, next episode may be the reveal..

Investigations proceed at their own pace and if a discovery is made and verified, it would probably be published  sooner rather than later.  without regard to a TV season schedule.  I think real investigations are just too boring to watch, even when there are significant outcomes as a result.  I don't think they make for good spectator sports.  If there are investigations, even by serious, intelligent, rational amateurs, I  don't think they wind up as public entertainment.

10 hours ago, openozy said:

Very interesting but nothing to do with the paranormal.Your brain doesn't pick you up and throw you against a wall upside down.

Outside of entertainment and irate great apes, does anything do that?

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

That might be a way to do it.  You couldn't get sponsors or viewers for a show that 11 episodes out of 12 the crew just went home and said, "Maybe next time."    But you would have to be filming and ready on every occasion or you might miss something.  Cost and mental fatigue would be large.

If you really found something, would you wait until the end of the season to air it?  You would if you wanted maximum viewership and sponsors for the season. This seems to be the formula for Alien investigations, Bigfoot investigations, ghosts, monsters, buried treasures and such.  You have to really sex up the failures as near misses and tease the viewers along with getting really close, next episode may be the reveal..

Investigations proceed at their own pace and if a discovery is made and verified, it would probably be published  sooner rather than later.  without regard to a TV season schedule.  I think real investigations are just too boring to watch, even when there are significant outcomes as a result.  I don't think they make for good spectator sports.  If there are investigations, even by serious, intelligent, rational amateurs, I  don't think they wind up as public entertainment.

 

I think your criticisms are more relevant to Bigfoot, Monster Hunting and Alien shows. More ghost hunting shows seem to find things in every episode because they are pre-selecting places with strong suggestions of the paranormal and also because of the fact that this type of phenomena is just not as rare to find as the types I initially listed.

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Tatetopa
42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I think your criticisms are more relevant to Bigfoot, Monster Hunting and Alien shows. More ghost hunting shows seem to find things in every episode because they are pre-selecting places with strong suggestions of the paranormal and also because of the fact that this type of phenomena is just not as rare to find as the types I initially listed.

Well papa I must admit to ignorance on this.  I have no idea how prevalent paranormal activity is compared to Bigfoot.  To be serious about it., if it is that prevalent,  the chance of some incontrovertible evidence being found seems pretty high.  I guess we will see.

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papageorge1
10 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well papa I must admit to ignorance on this.  I have no idea how prevalent paranormal activity is compared to Bigfoot.  To be serious about it., if it is that prevalent,  the chance of some incontrovertible evidence being found seems pretty high.  I guess we will see.

I don't think the concept of 'incontrovertible evidence' is a valid one with spontaneous events. "beyond reasonable doubt' is as far as we can go and such a term is subjective. 

If I see a ghost how can I give you 'incontrovertible evidence'? Picture - can always be accused of fakery. Video - can always be called faked. Other equipment anomalies can be called just that - anomalies. Multiple witnesses - suggestive hallucination, etc. etc..

'Reason' is the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

Edited by papageorge1

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Kittens Are Jerks

@acute You might find the following LiveScience article interesting. It touches on the science and logic of ghosts and explains that one of the reasons it's difficult to investigate ghosts is that there's not one universally agreed upon definition on what they actually are. From the article:

Some believe that they are spirits of the dead who for whatever reason get "lost" on their way to The Other Side; others claim that ghosts are instead telepathic entities projected into the world from our minds. Still others create their own special categories for different types of ghosts, such as poltergeists, residual hauntings, intelligent spirits and shadow people. Of course, it's all made up, like speculating on the different races of fairies or dragons: there are as many types of ghosts as you want there to be.

There are many contradictions inherent in ideas about ghosts. For example, are ghosts material or not? Either they can move through solid objects without disturbing them, or they can slam doors shut and throw objects across the room. According to logic and the laws of physics, it's one or the other. If ghosts are human souls, why do they appear clothed and with (presumably soulless) inanimate objects like hats, canes, and dresses — not to mention the many reports of ghost trains, cars and carriages?

If ghosts are the spirits of those whose deaths were unavenged, why are there unsolved murders, since ghosts are said to communicate with psychic mediums, and should be able to identify their killers for the police. And so on — just about any claim about ghosts raises logical reasons to doubt it.

Source: https://www.livescience.com/26697-are-ghosts-real.html

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openozy
4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:
14 hours ago, openozy said:

 

Outside of entertainment and irate great apes, does anything do that?

That has happened to me when I threatened some occultists,I've written about it on here before,it was not worth the ridicule.I don't bother talking about this stuff anymore.

Edited by openozy

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, openozy said:

That has happened to me when I threatened some occultists,I've written about it on here before,it was not worth the ridicule.

Without evidence it is just a story. 

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openozy
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Without evidence it is just a story. 

I understand your stand on this stuff now.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, openozy said:

I understand your stand on this stuff now.

No you really don't. There is a lot wrong with supernatural, paranormal, and psychic claims. Believers don't want to face those issues either. 

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openozy
11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No you really don't. There is a lot wrong with supernatural, paranormal, and psychic claims. Believers don't want to face those issues either. 

Oh yeah,I forgot you just live in denial.

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XenoFish

If ghost exist and psychics can communicate with them. Then why are there still unsolved crimes? What hasn't all ancient and buried places been discovered yet? 

If psychic powers such as telekinesis are real, then why hasn't the exact neurological mechanism for it been discovered yet? Why hit and miss, also being entirely inconclusive.

If occultist really had the ability to manifest their will, then why are they not all billionaires? Why isn't 'magical warfare" treated as a legit thing? 

What you have are people who have feed their minds a steady diet of belief. People that have so thoroughly convinced themselves they are psychic and can no long see past their self-delusions. 

Even such foolishness as the law of attraction, if people could truly bend probability to their will, then once again, why isn't everyone filthy rich, why hasn't everyone's enemies died a painful death? 

I've only dealt one entropy curse on someone, to my current knowledge, nothing has happened to them at all. Every ounce of hatred was poured into the ritual, nothing. If such things are real, then a person such as myself should be able to just whisper a few words and give nightmares to whomever I choose. 

Other occultist complain that they can't make ends meet. Fully though, if they spirits, gods, angels, and demons are so damn powerful. Then the occultist should be the more feared person on the planet. Yet, nothing. Nothing at all. 

So you don't get it. I wanted proof. Guess I don't have a low enough IQ to accept everything as being real or having one experience and going "Aah, ghost are real!!!!"

Nor am I willing to accept someone else's delusions as proof of psychic powers. 

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, openozy said:

Oh yeah,I forgot you just live in denial.

Repeatablitiy and consistency. The paranormal has neither, because it does not exist. 

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openozy
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Repeatablitiy and consistency. The paranormal has neither, because it does not exist. 

Ok :rolleyes:

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, openozy said:

Ok 

Glad you agree.

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openozy
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Glad you agree.

I don't,just sick of talking to brick walls. 

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XenoFish
Just now, openozy said:

I don't,just sick of talking to brick walls. 

You've got nothing. Just like a lot of others around here. Stories is all, not proof, no evidence, nothing. Get back to me when you've got real evidence. Not some made up tale or exaggerated experience. 

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openozy
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

You've got nothing. Just like a lot of others around here. Stories is all, not proof, no evidence, nothing. Get back to me when you've got real evidence. Not some made up tale or exaggerated experience. 

You have some good stew in the pot today :D

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openozy
6 minutes ago, openozy said:

You have some good stew in the pot today :D

And it's not going to burn.

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