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Serious Research into Ghosts?

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ChrLzs
15 minutes ago, ocpaul20 said:

OK, but how would you prove a ghost even exists?

If there isn't evidence for them existing, if they don't affect the real world in any way that can be captured or measured or recorded (which is what you are clearly conceding)....

then they may as well not exist.

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openozy
Posted (edited)

"Exist" isn't a word you would use to describe ghosts or spirits as they are not living.

Edited by openozy

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ChrLzs
Just now, openozy said:

"Exist" isn't a word you would use to describe ghosts or spirits as the are not living.

.. or affect the real world in any way whatsoever.  Forgive me, therefore for:

- not being afraid

- not accepting that they exist

- not expecting any evidence to ever be provided (but I'll be the first to eat humble pie if/when that happens...)

 

Nevertheless, above facts not withstanding, others will continue to parrot on about them... :D

I'll get really interested when someone posts good evidence.  Ya'd think that with all the cameras around nowadays......................

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openozy
1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

not being afraid

Why would you be afraid?

 

1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

not accepting that they exist

They are not a living being so they don't exist,but they did when in their mortal body

 

1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

'll get really interested when someone posts good evidence

1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

Ya'd think that with all the cameras around nowadays

I don't believe they can be filmed.As this is the case there is no chance of evidence to appease the egocentric.

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ocpaul20
5 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

if they don't affect the real world in any way that can be captured or measured or recorded

...but they do. The devices that are sold for detecting the paranormal are measuring something. The fact that you cannot say what that something is, means you dont accept it. Whether you accept it or not, there are still measurements there to be made. It is clear that something is affecting those meters or receiving devices in some way. Recording it is just a matter of connecting the meters to a recording device of your choice.

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ChrLzs
11 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

...but they do.

Oh, really?  Let's examine that claim...

11 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

The devices that are sold for detecting the paranormal are measuring something.

Give an example.  Are you seriously trying to tell me that the devices don't say what they are measuring?

11 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

The fact that you cannot say what that something is, means you dont accept it.

Au contraire.  By all means give your best example, but I'll wager that the 'device' is indeed measuring something tangible AND fully explainable.  It's quite easy to calibrate and test measuring devices.  So, back to you, NAME such a device.  The best one, in your opinion.  Let's look carefully at what they do, and see how informed you are.

11 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

Whether you accept it or not, there are still measurements there to be made.

So GIVE EXAMPLES.  If you won't then you need to withdraw the cliaim that these measurements are anything not explainable.

11 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

It is clear that something is affecting those meters or receiving devices in some way. Recording it is just a matter of connecting the meters to a recording device of your choice.

GIVE EXAMPLES ad let's find out just how much you understand.

 

Hint, if I was you I'd start running.  This is NOT going to go well for you.

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ChrLzs

And from the wider view, I trust all readers are noting that NOT ONCE has anyone given an example of ANY effect on reality.  These ghosts/spirits/interdimensional entities/whatever are so lacking in ability that they just can't do anything, in reality.  Pitiful.

One might suggest that they don't exist at all.   But I'm sure ocpaul (anybody???) will get back to us to with something.  Any day now.

 

If not, then I think all the ghosts have now been wiped out, leaving no trace.  What a sad coincidence that this happened exactly over the same time period that we got better at understanding and measuring our environment, and also understanding the nature of the human psyche and why it wants to believe in such pfaff.

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openozy
9 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I trust all readers are noting that NOT ONCE has anyone given an example of ANY effect on reality.

There has been plenty of examples on plenty of threads of this.Get your facts straight and stop talking like Veruca Salt :-*

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ChrLzs
On 1/4/2020 at 4:36 PM, openozy said:

There has been plenty of examples on plenty of threads of this.Get your facts straight and stop talking like Veruca Salt :-*

Which was the best one?   Don't be shy - tell us, and if it's well-evidenced, you'll get an apology from me.  Surely that would be worth it?

Or would you prefer to scuttle off or do another handwave..?

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openozy
On 1/4/2020 at 8:04 AM, ChrLzs said:

NOT ONCE has anyone given an example of ANY effect on reality.

Practically every account has had an effect on the viewer and with objects and people being thrown,I'd call that reality.

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ChrLzs
43 minutes ago, openozy said:

Practically every account has had an effect on the viewer and with objects and people being thrown,I'd call that reality.

But as usual, and oh what a surprise, openozy, like pretty much everyone of the same mindset, get's all shy when simply asked to provide the BEST example..  That's because even the absolute best they can find is pitiful and offers no decent evidence whatsoever.

 

But that's easily enough for openozy....

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Habitat
9 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

But as usual, and oh what a surprise, openozy, like pretty much everyone of the same mindset, get's all shy when simply asked to provide the BEST example..  That's because even the absolute best they can find is pitiful and offers no decent evidence whatsoever.

 

But that's easily enough for openozy....

You are saying openozy doesn't have anything to show you, therefore whatever openozy witnessed, can be dismissed as insignificant. A more cautious person might allow for the possibility that what openozy and others have witnessed, was directed, and in such a way that it would remain...….."for his/their eyes/ears only". If you dismiss that as impossible, you just compound your presumption and over-reach issues.

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openozy
2 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

openozy, like pretty much everyone of the same mindset, get's all shy when simply asked to provide the BEST example

I'm far from shy,there is no BEST example, they are all negative.I've got plenty of these myself but am sick of being ridiculed by a bunch of skeptics who act like spoilt little girls,so not interested in your requests.

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ChrLzs
33 minutes ago, openozy said:

I'm far from shy,there is no BEST example, they are all negative.I've got plenty of these myself but am sick of being ridiculed by a bunch of skeptics who act like spoilt little girls,so not interested in your requests.

You're at a public discussion forum, so stop whining when someone actually debates you...

Clearly you have no good examples to bring.  No example where reality was affected.  You happily admit that your claims are based on nothing.

So let's just follow the obvious logic....  Here we are in 2020.  Almost everyone has a camera, there are security cameras and dash cams and sky cams and traffic cams, and ..... etc everywhere.  Our environment is tested and recorded in innumerable ways not even dreamt of back in the early 1900's.  And yet, back then we had FAR more ghost reports per capita than we do now.  Why?  Glad you asked.  Because back then we didn't know any better and science was only just getting started. 

Now, ghost reports are way down, and all we have to do to eliminate any of the few remaining reports is tell them to set up a cameraInstant disappearance of ghost is guaranteed - would you like me to dig up some of the hundreds of such disappearances right here at UM?

 

And you can't work out why that is?    :D :D :D 

 

Go on, be brave and explain that simple and indisputable observation.  Why is it that now, with magnitudes better surveillance of every aspect of our lives, there is no evidence for the supernatural?

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

You're at a public discussion forum, so stop whining when someone actually debates you...

Clearly you have no good examples to bring.  No example where reality was affected.  You happily admit that your claims are based on nothing.

So let's just follow the obvious logic....  Here we are in 2020.  Almost everyone has a camera, there are security cameras and dash cams and sky cams and traffic cams, and ..... etc everywhere.  Our environment is tested and recorded in innumerable ways not even dreamt of back in the early 1900's.  And yet, back then we had FAR more ghost reports per capita than we do now.  Why?  Glad you asked.  Because back then we didn't know any better and science was only just getting started. 

Now, ghost reports are way down, and all we have to do to eliminate any of the few remaining reports is tell them to set up a cameraInstant disappearance of ghost is guaranteed - would you like me to dig up some of the hundreds of such disappearances right here at UM?

 

And you can't work out why that is?    :D :D :D 

 

Go on, be brave and explain that simple and indisputable observation.  Why is it that now, with magnitudes better surveillance of every aspect of our lives, there is no evidence for the supernatural?

I'll give you the tip, Charlie, this "other" realm is way too smart to be pinned down by you. I know you struggle with the concept that this could actually be the case.

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openozy
1 minute ago, ChrLzs said:

Go on, be brave and explain that simple and indisputable observation.

Well if you bothered to read any of my posts you will see I believe the paranormal can't be filmed,I've never seen a pic on this subject that looked remotely real,sort of like the first fake moon landing.

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psyche101
18 minutes ago, openozy said:

Well if you bothered to read any of my posts you will see I believe the paranormal can't be filmed,I've never seen a pic on this subject that looked remotely real,sort of like the first fake moon landing.

:huh: 

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ChrLzs
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Habitat said:

I'll give you the tip, Charlie, this "other" realm is way too smart to be pinned down by you. I know you struggle with the concept that this could actually be the case.

:D Forgive me for dismissing something that doesn't affect the world/universe we live in.  NOT ONE Iota, NOT ONE example of evidence.  Me, I prefer pink unicorns if you are going to childishly fantasise about something that is completely unable to affect reality in any way whatsoever.

 

Yes, things that don't exist are SOOOOOOO clever at hiding from us, Hab.  :td:  And do, oh do, let us all know when that changes.

Edited by ChrLzs
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Essan

Ghosts, like UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster absolutely do exist.   They are thing that people see and, at the time,are unable to otherwise identify.  

That some people believe that ghosts, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster are specific things is a wholly different issue.  And those who believe this need to provide emphatic evidence that their explanation of what is seen is correct - and that all the many,many other explanations cannot be correct.

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Habitat
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

:D Forgive me for dismissing something that doesn't affect the world/universe we live in.  NOT ONE Iota, NOT ONE example of evidence.  Me, I prefer pink unicorns if you are going to childishly fantasise about something that is completely unable to affect reality in any way whatsoever.

 

Yes, things that don't exist are SOOOOOOO clever at hiding from us, Hab.  :td:  And do, oh do, let us all know when that changes.

Stay smug, I know differently. I know that the "beyond" does intervene in the world. I don't know the extent of it. But it is well concealed. Whether the extent of it materially affects you, I don't know. The real man of knowledge doesn't leap to  these kinds of conclusions, Charlie......

"childishly fantasise about something that is completely unable to affect reality in any way whatsoever." In fact, you are wrong, but much worse than that, you are wrong in principle, you have issued a "finding" about something you are in no position to make judgements about. That is just sneering know-all-ism. You need to be more conservative about your pronouncements.

Edited by Habitat
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openozy
On 10/29/2019 at 12:17 PM, onlookerofmayhem said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ghost-sightings-as-explained-by-science-131550406.html

“The two most powerful psychological factors implicated in hauntings are context and belief,” Christopher French, a professor of psychology and head of the Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit at the University of London, tells Yahoo Lifestyle. Meaning, simply, if a person expects a place to be haunted, then they’ll more likely see it that way.

“Studies show that if people are told that a location is haunted, they report more anomalous experiencers — sense of presence, shivers down the spine, changes in temperature, etc. — than if that suggestion is not given to them,” he says, adding that “believers in the paranormal are more susceptible to such suggestions than skeptics.”

Another Quack.Do you actually have any input into threads or do you just like putting up other people's garbage that you have googled?:lol:.I doubt anyone with any knowledge of the paranormal would be influenced by suggestion.

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Habitat
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, openozy said:

Another Quack.Do you actually have any input into threads or do you just like putting up other people's garbage that you have googled?:lol:.I doubt anyone with any knowledge of the paranormal would be influenced by suggestion.

People without experience of the paranormal could easily be influenced by suggestion, though. Despite having witnessed some very frank manifestations, I still don't default to "paranormal" to explain anomalous happenings. I'd reckon some that have yet to have that experience, but are perhaps a little too eager to, might just fudge it.

Edited by Habitat

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ChrLzs
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Stay smug,

Oh, I shall.  And thanks for fully justifying it with this absolutely ridiculous post...

Quote

I know differently.

You don't even know what 'know' means.  Knowledge refers to things that are proven NOT just to you, but to others..  You have a BELIEF.

Quote

I believe that the "beyond" does intervene in the world.

Fixed that for you.

Quote

I don't know the extent of it.

Then why do you postulate it's existence, if there is no evidence to date?

Quote

But it is well concealed.

Completely concealed, apparently.  May as well not exist.  May as well be from a fairy tale.

Quote

Whether the extent of it materially affects you, I don't know.

 I do.  It doesn't.  If you claim otherwise, or claim that it affects ANYONE or ANYTHING, you need to pony up with the evidence.  Or stop wasting the forum's time with this stupidity.

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

You don't even know what 'know' means.  Knowledge refers to things that are proven NOT just to you, but to others..  You have a BELIEF.

No, in the sense that I know anything at all, I know.

5 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

you need to pony up with the evidence.

I don't need to do anything, you need to stop jumping to conclusions. Let's be honest about this, if you did not have some residual doubts, you wouldn't even be talking about such things, and that is a fact !

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onlookerofmayhem
1 hour ago, openozy said:

Another Quack.Do you actually have any input into threads or do you just like putting up other people's garbage that you have googled?:lol:.I doubt anyone with any knowledge of the paranormal would be influenced by suggestion.

He is hardly a quack. That's an extremely ignorant comment. I reccomend looking at his credentials. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_French

"French teaches a course entitled Psychology, Parapsychology and Pseudoscience as part of the BSc (Hons) Psychology programmes at both Goldsmiths College and Birkbeck College. He is a Chartered Psychologist and a Fellow of the British Psychological Society."

This man is actually interested in studying paranormal claims. 

Well, since he is the one who has been investigating such claims, I deferred to him in this case.

Your comment seems to insinuate I only post things I find on Google. Another ignorant statement. 

I don't really care what you doubt.

The power of suggestion is a well known occurrence. If you are unaware of that fact, I suggest you do some research on it.

 

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