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Serious Research into Ghosts?

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openozy
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I consider that false hope, I have no regard for false hope.

Hope is a positive feeling,would you prefer that they felt hopeless.If you do believe there is only oblivion when we die,why not have positive feelings while we are alive,it would do no harm but would help get you through life.For me its not hope but a knowing we will meet again,thats even more positive.

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openozy
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

As much as you don't adhere to religion, that's where those concepts come from. 

Your beliefs are based on superstitions. I just can't work with that. Facts provide answers with better support and foundation. I can trust them and their origins.

 

I don't know how you figure that.My beliefs are based on experiences.

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openozy
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What about when I was very open to this in my younger years and went seeking it? Still, I saw interpretation, not actual unexplained events. I honestly feel that it is far more likely that the claimant creates the experience. It's the only logical solution that ticks all boxes.

You don't have to seek it it's all around you.Your last sentence is where you close your mind.

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psyche101
49 minutes ago, openozy said:

Hope is a positive feeling,would you prefer that they felt hopeless.

If that is the reality of the situation, yes, false hope tends to end in far greater disappointment.

49 minutes ago, openozy said:

Ifyou do believe there is only oblivion when we die,why not have positive feelings while we are alive,it would do no harm but would help get you through life.For me its not hope but a knowing we will meet again,thats even more positive.

It's not a belief, that's where we differ. It's proven sciences that refute the afterlife. Things we know are true. That can only mean it's a false hope. 

I know we won't meet again, the difference is that I can say why and support that statement to anyone with known facts, which with all due respect are more convincing than individual evaluations of unusual circumstances based on old superstitions. And the afterlife had a traceable history which is simply a lot of wild guesses from ancient people. 

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psyche101
51 minutes ago, openozy said:
 

I don't know how you figure that.My beliefs are based on experiences.

And how did you come to the answers you have i.e an afterlife?

Nothing in nature supports that man made idea. The history is traceable through human culture, not evidences.

It can only be based on superstitions.

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psyche101
49 minutes ago, openozy said:

You don't have to seek it it's all around you.

As mentioned earlier, I was very open to it in my younger years. I didn't know better. I sought proper evidence when my father passed in 2006. Neither avenue revealed anything more than people convincing themselves of things they had already decided on.

49 minutes ago, openozy said:

Yourlast sentence is where you close your mind.

Please explain further. I don't see how suggesting what seems an obvious solution that explains all is closed minded. As with the aforementioned coin and feather, is that closed minded?

I honestly don't see how.

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openozy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

If that is the reality of the situation, yes, false hope tends to end in far greater disappointment.

In your way of thinking we are alive and then when you die, nothing.If you have hope until then,what harm is there in it,you wont be disappointed when you die either way.

Edited by openozy
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openozy
50 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It's proven sciences that refute the afterlife.

There is no way of proving that.

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openozy
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

And how did you come to the answers you have i.e an afterlife?

Nothing in nature supports that man made idea. The history is traceable through human culture, not evidences.

It can only be based on superstitions.

Because I've spoken to past relatives.Not ghosts by the way.Man didn't make any of this.

Edited by openozy

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Habitat
Just now, openozy said:

In your way of thinking we are alive and the when you die, nothing.If you have hope until then,what harm is there in it,you wont be disappointed when you die either way.

 Good point, I think the explanation for some of the "Dr No" behaviour around here is that they fear some negative impact if the "woo" is real, so the job is to be convinced it isn't real.

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openozy
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Please explain further. I don't see how suggesting what seems an obvious solution that explains all is closed minded

Just by thinking that way you have limited your thinking,therefore a wall is put up.

Edited by openozy

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ChrLzs

I have one-o-dem 'walls' up too.  It is just beyond the point where anything that is true and real and evidenced becomes untrue, unsupported or fantasy-based.

I'm happy with my wall, and I'll adjust it if ever something did affect reality.  So, is that close-minded?  See below.

Having that wall up, doesn't mean I denigrate those who may see 'signs' of past loved ones, or get comfort from bumps in the night, or pareidolia...  I have no problem with that ... UNLESS they demand that no explanations are offered, or that paranormality is the only answer.

I do have a problem with that - this is a forum designed to find UNexplained mysteries, so how else do you find those, than by pointing out the ones that are explainable?

And as for the accusation that those of us who dispute ghosts, interdimensionality and the like, and offer considered analysis, have closed minds?  Well, as has been oft pointed out, It's ok to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out..

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psyche101
41 minutes ago, openozy said:

In your way of thinking we are alive and then when you die, nothing.If you have hope until then,what harm is there in it,you wont be disappointed when you die either way.

Undermining scientific knowledge and progress. Creating distrust in progress. Fanatics. 

And it is simply not true.

If one chooses to dismiss real world evidence to take a desired path, I feel that such should remain personal, and not be touted as if true or passed down to offspring. 

People can believe what they want, but should not state beliefs are facts.

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psyche101
44 minutes ago, openozy said:

There is no way of proving that.

I've already shown you that the best physicists in the world say exactly that.

Thermodynamics proves it. 

But there were still a substantial number of people who think that death is not final. It's a very compelling vision. It's easy to say that wishful thinking has something to do with it. But whatever the motivations might be, there are even many atheists and naturalists who think that we just can't say whether there is life after death. They would say that there is no evidence one way or another.

I want to tell you that we can say that there is no life after death. Sorry.

https://ffrf.org/outreach/awards/emperor-has-no-clothes-award/item/22128-sean-carroll

He is more than qualified to make that call. More so than everyone on this website tied together and folded over.

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psyche101
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, openozy said:

Because I've spoken to past relatives.Not ghosts by the way.Man didn't make any of this.

How so? Why are you yourself certain that is the only possible conclusion to your experience? What evidence do you have which is more compelling and better supported then the above presentation by Sean Carroll? Why would any person dismiss his argument?

Edited by psyche101
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openozy
7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Undermining scientific knowledge and progress. Creating distrust in progress. Fanatics. 

 

I thought questioning these finds is how science advances.

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psyche101
Just now, openozy said:

I thought questioning these finds is how science advances.

It has though. That's also why there are no University lectures on the paranormal or creationism. 

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openozy
6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I want to tell you that we can say that there is no life after death. Sorry.

Lol,the bloke you are so impressed with knows nothing obviously.

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openozy
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's also why there are no University lectures on the paranormal or creationism. 

Mainly because it's beyond their limited knowledge.

Edited by openozy

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openozy
16 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

I have one-o-dem 'walls' up too

Well why bother trying to join in on something that is beyond you.:st

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ChrLzs
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, openozy said:

Because I've spoken to past relatives.Not ghosts by the way.Man didn't make any of this.

Bit of a pity that you are not a scientist or investigator, because if you were, you would have recorded the event, and also asked some questions that would prove they were something beyond your imagination.

And of course now you will say "don't be rdiculous, this was a one off event and that was impossible".

But there's a problem - are you saying that every time this happens, across billions of people, and over a hundred billion potential ghosts, with all the cameras and phones available, that in every single situation, no-one managed to gain even a tiny skerrick of verifiable proof of what they claim happened?

Wow, that's dam unlucky.  Or is it just that this all took place in your head, so was not recordable or experienced by anyone else?  Yes, that's what we are saying too - it's all in your head.  Brains do some wonderful things for us, quite frequently.  I think it very close-minded and unimaginative that  rather than recognise and revere the power of the mind (I was going to say 'psyche', but I don't want him to get an ego..), they instead resort to fantasy beings.  It could be seen as insulting to those now-deceased persons actual lives. 

Edited by ChrLzs
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psyche101
2 minutes ago, openozy said:

Lol,the bloke you are so impressed with knows nothing obviously.

How can you stand behind that statement? 

He has devoted a lifetime standing on the shoulders of giants with the best equipment on the planet at the greatest academic institutions on earth.

With all due respect, your claim seems more like sour grapes? What can some anecdotes offer that surpasses that effort?

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openozy
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

He has devoted a lifetime standing on the shoulders of giants with the best equipment on the planet at the greatest academic institutions on earth.

And he still knows nothing about it.

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psyche101
5 minutes ago, openozy said:

Mainly because it's beyond their limited knowledge.

How would that be? If they can predict particles right down to the one that gives mass, what makes you think the afterlife concept is beyond science? 

Why should an afterlife exist? What indicates it's a logical progression of life?

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Habitat
8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I want to tell you that we can say that there is no life after death. Sorry.

Poor devil has another think coming. If he's lucky

4 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

But there's a problem - are you saying that every time this happens, across billions of people, and over a hundred billion potential ghosts, with all the cameras and phones available, that in every single situation, no-one managed to gain even a tiny skerrick of verifiable proof of what they claim happened?

Wow, that's dam unlucky.  Or is it just that this all took place in your head, so was not recordable or experienced by anyone else?  Yes, that's what we are saying too - it's all in your head.  Brains do some wonderful things for us, quite frequently.  I think it very close-minded and unimaginative that  rather than recognise and revere the power of the mind (I was going to say 'psyche', but I don't want him to get an ego..), they instead resort to fantasy beings.  It could be seen as insulting to those now-deceased persons actual lives. 

There's only a problem if you think these phenomena are like normal phenomena, and can be regarded as open to the same kind of investigation and detection. That appears to be a bad assumption.

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