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jaylemurph

Proto-Indo-European Puberty Rites

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jaylemurph

So in a thread that was closed (thanks phringies!), we were discussing puberty/maturation (call it what it is — pederasty) rites amongst Greeks as a survival of older cultural practices, perhaps as an inheritance of older norms. 

Piney specifically mentioned the Wolf cult of the PIE cultures and the Berserkers of Nordic cultures as possible parallels. 

More recently, I was surprised to find out the names of Hengist and Horsa — the traditional leaders of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes who “invaded” Britain in the fifth century CE — translate literally as “Horse-Rider” and “Stallion.” Oddly suggestive words in this context, but PIE kingship rites were known to include ritual copulation with horses. 

I wanted to start a thread where we could theorize a possible history of these cultural practices and their development. 

I realize this might be a slightly taboo subject, but I think there is material here for serious historical investigation (I can provide some links for published evidence and peer-reviewed theory), and figured this forum might be used for something other than lube for onanistic Atlantidiots.  

—Jaylemurph 

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Piney

The Horse Twins probably have PIE origins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_twins

I wondered about twins being suckled by a wolf having PIE origins because one of the Turkic-Iranian clans of the Gokturks had a similar legend about a Eastern Iranian prince being suckled by a she wolf than adopted by one of the Turkic forest tribes. 

@Orphalesion  We have a thread!!! :yes:

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Piney

Spartan Agoge structure. It probably originated with the possible PIE practice of living like feral dogs or wolves which wandered the fringes of the nomad camp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoge#Structure

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Piney
23 minutes ago, Piney said:

I wondered about twins being suckled by a wolf having PIE origins because one of the Turkic-Iranian clans of the Gokturks had a similar tale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashina_tribe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asena

 

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Captain Risky
4 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

So in a thread that was closed (thanks phringies!), we were discussing puberty/maturation (call it what it is — pederasty) rites amongst Greeks as a survival of older cultural practices, perhaps as an inheritance of older norms. 

Piney specifically mentioned the Wolf cult of the PIE cultures and the Berserkers of Nordic cultures as possible parallels. 

More recently, I was surprised to find out the names of Hengist and Horsa — the traditional leaders of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes who “invaded” Britain in the fifth century CE — translate literally as “Horse-Rider” and “Stallion.” Oddly suggestive words in this context, but PIE kingship rites were known to include ritual copulation with horses. 

I wanted to start a thread where we could theorize a possible history of these cultural practices and their development. 

I realize this might be a slightly taboo subject, but I think there is material here for serious historical investigation (I can provide some links for published evidence and peer-reviewed theory), and figured this forum might be used for something other than lube for onanistic Atlantidiots.  

—Jaylemurph 

So the search for the truth of the Atlantis legend is to be replaced with ancient legends of beastiality around the evil cabal camp fire ?

 

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Captain Risky
3 hours ago, Piney said:

Spartan Agoge structure. It probably originated with the possible PIE practice of living like feral dogs or wolves which wandered the fringes of the nomad camp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoge#Structure

Really Piney? The ancient Greeks had the wolf and Lycanthropy as part of the culture and religion. Let’s not read too much into it, eh?

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Captain Risky

I’m beginning to wonder who the real “fringe” is???

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Captain Risky

@kmt_sesh buddy time you looked at this thread and canned it, least one of the cabal goes out tonight and does some historical “research” on some poor defenceless animal. 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

@kmt_sesh buddy time you looked at this thread and canned it, least one of the cabal goes out tonight and does some historical “research” on some poor defenceless animal. 

You pretend to be a defender of those abused by “the cabal”, but you’re really just a nasty piece of work aren’t you Risky?

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
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Pettytalk
1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

I’m beginning to wonder who the real “fringe” is???

Not to mention trying to rewrite the mythical history of Rome's beginning, Talk about a bunch of cabal hypocrisy designating others as hypocrites.

And what about the biggest hypocrite of them all? Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the more hypocrite of the cabal?  Hard to tell, too dark to see with all the black smoke they blow.

Family site, eh? That one is really a joke, always beating around his own bush, and that's why he is always thinking of selfies. Self gratification is his essence, in all respects! 

She-wolf_suckles_Romulus_and_Remus.jpg

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Pettytalk
58 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You pretend to be a defender of those abused by “the cabal”, but you’re really just a nasty piece of work aren’t you Risky?

Nasty response.....still playing double agent? It's night acting school for you, as you don't convince either side.

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Pettytalk
5 hours ago, Piney said:

The Horse Twins probably have PIE origins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_twins

I wondered about twins being suckled by a wolf having PIE origins because one of the Turkic-Iranian clans of the Gokturks had a similar legend about a Eastern Iranian prince being suckled by a she wolf than adopted by one of the Turkic forest tribes. 

@Orphalesion  We have a thread!!! :yes:

Thread is useless without the needle......and the finger should be protected by a thimble when needling. Take your pick.

 

thimbles.jpg

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Piney
4 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Not to mention trying to rewrite the mythical history of Rome's beginning, Talk about a bunch of cabal hypocrisy designating others as hypocrites.

And what about the biggest hypocrite of them all? Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the more hypocrite of the cabal?  Hard to tell, too dark to see with all the black smoke they blow.

Family site, eh? That one is really a joke, always beating around his own bush, and that's why he is always thinking of selfies. Self gratification is his essence, in all respects! 

This gets a golden pot kettle award. Rewriting Plato to start your own doomsday cult. 

 

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Piney

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/vlachs/

Interesting old essay on the Vlachs. 

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Piney
Piney
5 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Family site, eh? That one is really a joke, always beating around his own bush, and that's why he is always thinking of selfies. Self gratification is his essence, in all respects! 

https://www.livius.org/articles/concept/greek-homosexuality/

Here's a little something to fuel your homophobia and hatred.

@jaylemurph  I like K.J. Dover's work. 

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Orphalesion
Posted (edited)

So much reading material :D

As I said in the other thread, everybody knows that the Ancient Greeks, and the Spartans most of all, had an unfortunate penchant for pederasty, but I always thought that it was a Greece-specific development arising from their obsession with youth and the male form, not of PIE origins. I never suspected that the Spartan Warrior Class might have preserved a way of life that originated from a PIE wolf cult.


 

12 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

More recently, I was surprised to find out the names of Hengist and Horsa — the traditional leaders of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes who “invaded” Britain in the fifth century CE — translate literally as “Horse-Rider” and “Stallion.” Oddly suggestive words

The Devine Twins are a very interesting topic, and as Piney noted, they seem to be of PIE origin, since they have heaps of cognates. The Dioscury in Ancient Greece, for example, with each of them taking the other's place in the Underworld for half a year.

And if we are on the topic of horse-names again, well, as I wrote in the Merseburg Charms Baldr is called "Phol" (Foal) and one of the theories it seems is that he was half of a pair of divine twins (like actual theories, not the slash-fanfiction of some self-proclaimed witch :-P )

Edited by Orphalesion
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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 10/7/2019 at 10:53 PM, Orphalesion said:

So much reading material :D

As I said in the other thread, everybody knows that the Ancient Greeks, and the Spartans most of all, had an unfortunate penchant for pederasty, but I always thought that it was a Greece-specific development arising from their obsession with youth and the male form, not of PIE origins. I never suspected that the Spartan Warrior Class might have preserved a way of life that originated from a PIE wolf cult.


Quite a few scholars believe that Leviticus’ warnings against “men lying down with men like they do women” is an attempt to “De-Helenise” Jewish culture.

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
On 10/7/2019 at 1:23 AM, jaylemurph said:

So in a thread that was closed (thanks phringies!), we were discussing puberty/maturation (call it what it is — pederasty) rites amongst Greeks as a survival of older cultural practices, perhaps as an inheritance of older norms. 

Piney specifically mentioned the Wolf cult of the PIE cultures and the Berserkers of Nordic cultures as possible parallels. 

More recently, I was surprised to find out the names of Hengist and Horsa — the traditional leaders of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes who “invaded” Britain in the fifth century CE — translate literally as “Horse-Rider” and “Stallion.” Oddly suggestive words in this context, but PIE kingship rites were known to include ritual copulation with horses. 

I wanted to start a thread where we could theorize a possible history of these cultural practices and their development. 

I realize this might be a slightly taboo subject, but I think there is material here for serious historical investigation (I can provide some links for published evidence and peer-reviewed theory), and figured this forum might be used for something other than lube for onanistic Atlantidiots.  

—Jaylemurph 

As a native Brit, then yes its true.

In order to bond the horse to the warrior then the warrior would have sex with the horse. I haven't heard anywhere though that it was a rite of passage into adulthood.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Skirnum
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

In order to bond the horse to the warrior then the warrior would have sex with the horse

I can not see this as natural. But it can have a mythological story to tell. I wounder.

 

Edited by Skirnum

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Piney
1 hour ago, Skirnum said:

I can not see this as natural. But it can have a mythological story to tell. I wounder.

 

It was actually a Celtic kingship ceremony where the appointed leader had to "mate" with a white horse but I think it was more figurative than literal. 

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