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Setton

US betrays Kurdish Allies

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Setton

So the US has decided to let Turkey wipe out the men and women that died to defeat ISIS for us while Turkey sat in their hands. 

Why would anyone trust the US as an ally after this? 

Https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49956698

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Farmer77

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Setton said:

So the US has decided to let Turkey wipe out the men and women that died to defeat ISIS for us while Turkey sat in their hands. 

Why would anyone trust the US as an ally after this? 

Https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49956698

I’m not sure who was first but there is another thread on this. I definitely prefer your headline though 

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and then

You and the Cap'n need to coordinate.  We already have another slavering Trump demonics story on this topic.

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Raptor Witness

I forecast a while back here that Trump’s greatest weapon against the intelligence community, and the American people, is his willingness to stand down in the face of our adversaries. 

Cloaked in a simple decision, this sets the stage for further advancement into Ukraine, by Russia.

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and then
7 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

I forecast a while back here that Trump’s greatest weapon against the intelligence community, and the American people, is his willingness to stand down in the face of our adversaries. 

Cloaked in a simple decision, this sets the stage for further advancement into Ukraine, by Russia.

How does avoiding an open fight with the Islamist TRASH that is leading Turkey, accomplish that bit of legerdemaine?  Frankly, I'd rather see him withdraw if it's absolutely necessary but to continue to arm the Kurds and begin crippling sanctions of Erdog if he, in fact, tries to exterminate those people.  I'd have built a major U.S. airbase in northern Iraq and had the Kurds for allies but no one asked me.  I've been saying it since the year after we invaded Iraq.  It was obvious to any fool what would happen once the Shia were allowed to essentially control the Sunni minority in Iraq.  There was a lifetime of "payback" coming because of the way the Shia were brutalized under Saddam.  

If we actually withdraw and watch those Kurds exterminated and imprisoned under Erdog then we'll never have another ally.  We'll only have the mercenaries we can afford to pay while we constantly watch our own backs.  Trump isn't the cause, Erdog is the cause.  He needs a JDAM down his throat.

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Raptor Witness
10 minutes ago, and then said:

How does avoiding an open fight with the Islamist TRASH that is leading Turkey, accomplish that bit of legerdemaine?  Frankly, I'd rather see him withdraw .....

If you had even an ounce of foresight, you would know what this is setting the stage for. 

Haven’t you noticed already, under Trump that our allies are the enemy and our adversaries are our friends?

Because you have the foresight of fleas, the damper of Hell has been opened.

 

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)

So now Liberals want someone like Bush? 

And conservatives want someone like Trump?

Lol

Trump ran on a non-intervention, pull out of the middle East policiy. So this is no suprise. He has been seeking to do an "America First" policy his entire time on office; pulling out of foreign engagements. 

You can't have it both ways people. If you want to have a presence in the middel east then you got to commit to it with actual war.

If you want to bring the troops home then you have to actually do it. and watch what happens after happen.

For the last decade everyone has been trying to do both. You can't. 

Edited by spartan max2
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Setton
4 hours ago, and then said:

You and the Cap'n need to coordinate.  We already have another slavering Trump demonics story on this topic.

Anything to contribute on the topic? 

I'm assuming of course that, because it's Trump, you're OK with ethnic cleansing. 

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Setton
3 hours ago, and then said:

How does avoiding an open fight with the Islamist TRASH that is leading Turkey, accomplish that bit of legerdemaine?  

Curious - you want to go to war with Iran, risking many US service personnel's lives, to protect an ally that's done nothing for you. But you'd rather run away than protect men and women who have fought, died and won on your behalf, for 5 years, even though you would be in no danger. 

Is it cowardice, greed or just outright evil, I wonder? 

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bee
Posted (edited)

 

this is obviously a complicated political situation and when I was trying to get a handle on
what's going on... this comment under an article provided useful  information... 
it goes deeper into it and may help to explain Trump's decision.... ?..... make of it what you will.....
 

https://www.ft.com/content/b2cfd37a-e8ba-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55


 

Quote

The story is totally one sided.

 


1. Kurds in Syria who do not all support the YPG make up 8%  of the total Syrian population ie 1.8 million people, but the YPG controls around 30% of Syria. The area they control has half the population it had as before the war started. The other half of the population are in Turkey and other countries unable to go back. due to PKK/YPG controlling that area. The area the YPG controls was previously populated by mostly Arab Syrians. There are Arab and Syrian Turks in these areas who do not want to live under the rule of the YPG/PKK/

2. The YPG have increased their terrorist in Syria from 10% of the area to 30% of Syria. Western media does not report it but the YPG have been given tens of thousands of trucks worth of arms for free. They have some weapons like the Javlin anti tank missile, supplied free of charge that Turkey is not allowed to buy with money. The YPG is like the PKK a communist Leninist Marxist organization and no friend of the West . So let no one be fooled that the YPG fought ISIS for their benefit and not yours.

3. There are 3.5 million refugees in Turkey who want to return to their homes. This small area buffer zone is a compromise minimum that should be given to these people to settle again. Munjib is a city controlled by the YPG which used to be 90% populated by Arabs. The YPG have ethnically cleared these areas and Arab cannot come back.

4. Previously while war was going on I read many reports in western media how the YPG after taking land from ISIS would return these lands back to Arabs who where there before ISIS. Then they said after the war ended they would hand these lands back. They have not handed back anything and the western media is silent on this promise. They should give back these areas as they control a much larger proportion of Syria then the population they have in them.

5. FT talks of Kurdish militants in Turkey. They fail to use name of this organization ie the PKK and fail to mention that they are considered a terrorist organization not just by Turkey, but also by the EU and Us. 6. The YPG recruits children as soldiers. This was reported by the UN. Some are taken without the permission of their parents from Syria and also from Turkey. Turkey has right to settle some of the 3.6 million Syrian refugees it has to date taking care of without much help from any pother country.

 

 

Edited by bee

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Earl.Of.Trumps

People have to understand, yes the US/West says the Kurds are our friend, but they are terrorists to the Turks. 

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Setton
Quote

1. Kurds in Syria who do not all support the YPG make up 8% of the total Syrian population ie 1.8 million people, but the YPG controls around 30% of Syria. The area they control has half the population it had as before the war started. The other half of the population are in Turkey and other countries unable to go back. due to PKK/YPG controlling that area. The area the YPG controls was previously populated by mostly Arab Syrians. There are Arab and Syrian Turks in these areas who do not want to live under the rule of the YPG/PKK/

 

2. The YPG have increased their terrorist in Syria from 10% of the area to 30% of Syria. Western media does not report it but the YPG have been given tens of thousands of trucks worth of arms for free. They have some weapons like the Javlin anti tank missile, supplied free of charge that Turkey is not allowed to buy with money. The YPG is like the PKK a communist Leninist Marxist organization and no friend of the West . So let no one be fooled that the YPG fought ISIS for their benefit and not yours.

 

3. There are 3.5 million refugees in Turkey who want to return to their homes. This small area buffer zone is a compromise minimum that should be given to these people to settle again. Munjib is a city controlled by the YPG which used to be 90% populated by Arabs. The YPG have ethnically cleared these areas and Arab cannot come back.

 

4. Previously while war was going on I read many reports in western media how the YPG after taking land from ISIS would return these lands back to Arabs who where there before ISIS. Then they said after the war ended they would hand these lands back. They have not handed back anything and the western media is silent on this promise. They should give back these areas as they control a much larger proportion of Syria then the population they have in them.

 

5. FT talks of Kurdish militants in Turkey. They fail to use name of this organization ie the PKK and fail to mention that they are considered a terrorist organization not just by Turkey, but also by the EU and Us. 6. The YPG recruits children as soldiers. This was reported by the UN. Some are taken without the permission of their parents from Syria and also from Turkey. Turkey has right to settle some of the 3.6 million Syrian refugees it has to date taking care of without much help from any pother country.

1. This is simply not true. The refugees in Turkey are from other parts of Syria. Turkey regards the Kurds as an existential threat. They committed genocide in Afrin to remove them and now plan to do the same across the Syrian border and replace them with ethnic Arabs to permanently remove the perceived threat. Meanwhile, all the Kurds want is the right to self determination. 

2. The YPG is not the PKK although there is probably some crossover in membership. The Kurds have been provided with weapons to fight the b******* who killed dozens of innocents in Manchester, the Bataclan and god knows how many attacks. Do you have a problem with this? 

3. The YPG have not 'ethnically cleared' any areas. They have retaken territory that fell to ISIL. The refugees in Turkey mostly come from southern Syria, although a minority of Arabs are from the claimed Kurdish region. 

4. This is just incomprehensible ****e. If you can decipher the point, do let me know as it appears to be utterly divorced from reality. 

5. Again, the YPG is not the PKK. A source for the other claims would be a welcome novelty. And no, Turkey does not have the right to settle Syrian refugees wherever they fancy. 

The Turks have had the ambition to wipe out the Kurds for decades. We'll before the YPG even existed. With the US betrayal, they have a convenient excuse. They've already wiped out the Kurds in Afrin, now it will be all Northern Syria. Iraq will follow over the coming decades then Iran.

And @bee, you really need to start getting your information from somewhere other than anonymous comments on news articles. Right now, you're supporting ethnic cleansing.

Stop. Think about that. And decide whether you want to continue defending this or decide you're mature enough to admit you're on the wrong side of this. 

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bee
1 hour ago, Setton said:

And @bee, you really need to start getting your information from somewhere other than anonymous comments on news articles. Right now, you're supporting ethnic cleansing.

Stop. Think about that. And decide whether you want to continue defending this or decide you're mature enough to admit you're on the wrong side of this. 

 

no need to get so dramatic.... I was just posting another take on it all - not necessarily promoting it..
because the constant obligatory Trump Bad Man point of view gets very boring...

and like I said at the beginning of the post..

"this is obviously a complicated political situation "

 

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Hammerclaw
10 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I forecast a while back here that Trump’s greatest weapon against the intelligence community, and the American people, is his willingness to stand down in the face of our adversaries. 

Cloaked in a simple decision, this sets the stage for further advancement into Ukraine, by Russia.

The Russians have had bases in Syria for decades. It's their only toehold in the Mediterranean. That's what they are protecting. The Turks, on the other hand, are allies, fellow NATO members and host to the Largest US/NATO base in Western Asia, Incirlik. It is in our best interests to keep them on our side. The Kurds, who never actually revolted against the government will realign themselves with Damascus against Turkish adventurism. The ragtag assortment of rebel groups are pretty much done for. Their only major urban center Aleppo, well, Obama sat on his behind and allowed the Russians and Turks to bomb it into rubble and submission. Any realistic chance for the revolution to succeed was squandered long before Trump was a blip on the political radar. That quagmire is not worth a single additional American life. 

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Raptor Witness

I love how Trump’s most ardent supporters are now trying to defend him for this reckless decision, clearly not in our national interest, at this time.

I vote we carve out a Kurdish homeland as soon as possible, before it’s too late.  Nobody deserves it more. They are a great people, in the midst of great adversity.

 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Raptor Witness said:

I love how Trump’s most ardent supporters are now trying to defend him for this reckless decision, clearly not in our national interest, at this time.

I vote we carve out a Kurdish homeland as soon as possible, before it’s too late.  Nobody deserves it more. They are a great people, in the midst of great adversity.

 

I vote you to the front line to take the first bullet and earn you're red badge of courage. Don't worry, I'll write your folks.

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Manwon Lender
18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I vote you to the front line to take the first bullet and earn you're red badge of courage. Don't worry, I'll write your folks.

Unfortunately Raptor Witness is right the US has been promising the Kurds a homeland for their support in the war on terror across the Middle East. Now we just turn our backs on them, this will come back to bite us in more ways then one. It's just shows that our word can't be trusted, which will makes us many more enemies than friends. What do you think will happen to the 10,000 or  more ISIS fighters the Kurds are holding in prison camps, I suspect they will be set free or asked to join the Kurds. That can cause a great deal destabilization and a bigger blood bath. No matter how you slice it this going to turn out bad.

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Unfortunately Raptor Witness is right the US has been promising the Kurds a homeland for their support in the war on terror across the Middle East. Now we just turn our backs on them, this will come back to bite us in more ways then one. It's just shows that our word can't be trusted, which will makes us many more enemies than friends. What do you think will happen to the 10,000 or  more ISIS fighters the Kurds are holding in prison camps, I suspect they will be set free or asked to join the Kurds. That can cause a great deal destabilization and a bigger blood bath. No matter how you slice it this going to turn out bad.

How was it ever going to turn out good? Did Iraq turn out good? How are things going in Afghanistan? We helped the Kurds survive Daesh but they were never rebels. They'll do just fine and will be assets in Damascus' drive to reunite the country and deter Turkish incursions. No, the Obama Administration started this mess encouraging the disastrous "Arab Spring" but didn't have the stomach for the fight they fomented both there and in Ukraine. It's time to bring this ugly example of idealistic Liberal adventurism to an end. 

Edited by Hammerclaw

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

 

 

25 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

How was it ever going to turn out good? Did Iraq turn out good? How are things going in Afghanistan? We helped the Kurds survive Daesh but they were never rebels. They'll do just fine and will be assets in Damascus' drive to reunite the country and deter Turkish incursions. No, the Obama Administration started this mess encouraging the disastrous "Arab Spring" but didn't have the stomach for the fight they fomented both there and in Ukraine. It's time to bring this ugly example of idealistic Liberal adventurism to an end. 

What do you think is going to happen to all the ISIS prisoners held by the Kurds. You didn't mention that in your post above, I would like to Here Your thoughts.

Edited by Manwon Lender

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Let me see if I have this right.

Turkey is invading Northern Syria. And America is supposed to go in? Excuse me, why isn't Syria/Russia supposed to defend Syria?

In America's best interest, get the hell OUT.

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Farmer77
Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Let me see if I have this right.

Turkey is invading Northern Syria. And America is supposed to go in? Excuse me, why isn't Syria/Russia supposed to defend Syria?

In America's best interest, get the hell OUT.

No you dont have it right.

We had troops there but Trump chose to pull them out, which is cool but, along with pulling our troops out he told Turkey they could invade and we wouldnt stop them. The problem with him explicitly telling them they could invade is they will massacre our allies the Kurds. Essentially Trump just told Turkey to go do genocide.

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and then
16 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

Because you have the foresight of fleas, the damper of Hell has been opened.

If you imagine that your "wisdom" is somehow profound then you greatly overestimate the perception others have of you.  If you weren't so hateful, you'd actually be a sympathetic caricature of mental illness, IMO.

His withdrawal is dishonorable and it WILL cost America in the long and short run.  It is ill considered and may cost us far more than he is being counseled.  That said, refusing to remove the 150 troops that are acting as a tripwire there would be decried by sycophants like YOU, the Farmer and the other usual parrots just as harshly as his current decision has.  You and those here like you need no reason to hate and oppose anything he does.  You embody the vitriol that the 5th column trades in.  I wouldn't insult a ***** by calling you guys one.  They have FAR more honor and the ability to admit their choices.  I'm officially done treating with you and a couple of others here.  Only a fool brays back at jackasses.  You have a nice life.  I hope you enjoy 2020 and that it causes you a worse mental break than you are currently struggling with.  Toodles...

 

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Setton
7 hours ago, bee said:

 

no need to get so dramatic.... I was just posting another take on it all - not necessarily promoting it..
because the constant obligatory Trump Bad Man point of view gets very boring...

and like I said at the beginning of the post..

"this is obviously a complicated political situation "

 

Again: ethnic cleansing 

Deciding whether you support that or not should not be a 'complicated situation'. 

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and then
3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

What do you think is going to happen to all the ISIS prisoners held by the Kurds. You didn't mention that in your post above, I would like to Here Your thoughts.

The Kurds will be slaughtered wholesale unless Trump has made it clear to that pile of dog crap that crushes Turkey under his Islamic boot that to do so will cause them to suffer economically to the point of insolvency.  If he does no such thing and allows them to be slaughtered then I hope he falls under the judgment of a righteous God when his time comes.

If he brutalizes the civilians in that sector my guess is Turkish civilians will be treated to FAR worse atrocities in time.  There is no safety for tyrants, ever. Time is their enemy.

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and then
3 minutes ago, Setton said:

Again: ethnic cleansing 

Deciding whether you support that or not should not be a 'complicated situation'. 

And are we to believe that had his decision been to stay the course and risk open conflict, potentially causing a fracture within NATO, you'd have given him credit for his bravery?  That's the problem with being an obvious shill for years.  No one believes a word you say, regardless which way the wind happens to be blowing that day.  FWIW, I think his decision is dishonorable and will be soon seen as counterproductive but to believe he would ever get support from those who hate him would be like waiting up for the tooth fairy.

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