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Setton

US betrays Kurdish Allies

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Farmer77
Just now, RoofGardener said:

And yet... it WAS a very clear letter BECAUSE of its simplicity ? Perhaps this reflects President Trump's opinion of Erdogen ? 

Sure 30 some years of the man speaking like a moron publicly should be dismissed and we should assume that just this once it was because he was talking down to Erdogen. You do work hard for the guy roofie!  :D

 

 

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RoofGardener
Just now, Farmer77 said:

Sure 30 some years of the man speaking like a moron publicly should be dismissed and we should assume that just this once it was because he was talking down to Erdogen. You do work hard for the guy roofie!  :D

You think he speaks like a moron publicly ? And yet 63 million people voted for him.  You DO realise that you have just called 63 Million Americans 'morons' ? 

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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

You think he speaks like a moron publicly ? And yet 63 million people voted for him.  You DO realise that you have just called 63 Million Americans 'morons' ? 

 Stop with the snowflake crap LOL

Many millions voted for him because Hillary was the other option. Many voted for him clearly identifying that he spoke like a moron but held hope an outsider would bring change.

Granted one common refrain during the 2016 election was "We love Trump he talks like us" and yes those people are morons. Morons for speaking like that to begin with and morons for not having the cognitive ability to understand why it is that the office of POTUS hasnt held such people in modern history.

 

 

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RoofGardener
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

 Stop with the snowflake crap LOL

Many millions voted for him because Hillary was the other option. Many voted for him clearly identifying that he spoke like a moron but held hope an outsider would bring change.

Granted one common refrain during the 2016 election was "We love Trump he talks like us" and yes those people are morons. Morons for speaking like that to begin with and morons for not having the cognitive ability to understand why it is that the office of POTUS hasnt held such people in modern history.

"Because Hillary was the other option" ? So Hillary is a worse option than Donald ? So does that mean that HER 65 million voters where also morons ? 

Also, just because the office of POTUS hasn't held "such people", doesn't mean that it SHOULDN'T hold "such people". 

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

"Because Hillary was the other option" ? So Hillary is a worse option than Donald ? So does that mean that HER 65 million voters where also morons ? 

Many thought Trump was the better option at the time, myself included!

I couldnt personally bring myself to pull the lever for either of them and found the fact that those two were "the best" America had to be utterly humiliating.

11 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Also, just because the office of POTUS hasn't held "such people", doesn't mean that it SHOULDN'T hold "such people". 

Of course it does. For gods sake the ability to formulate a complete thought without insulting, lying or just rambling into self aggrandizing would get the vast majority of people in my field fired. The POTUS not only holds the nuclear codes he is representing 400 million Americans. A strong grasp of the english language should be a minimum qualification. That doesnt seem like it should be all that controversial.

 

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Many thought Trump was the better option at the time, myself included!

I couldnt personally bring myself to pull the lever for either of them and found the fact that those two were "the best" America had to be utterly humiliating.

Of course it does. For gods sake the ability to formulate a complete thought without insulting, lying or just rambling into self aggrandizing would get the vast majority of people in my field fired. The POTUS not only holds the nuclear codes he is representing 400 million Americans. A strong grasp of the english language should be a minimum qualification. That doesnt seem like it should be all that controversial.

 

Except, of course, the intended recipient of the letter doesn't speak English :)

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

You think he speaks like a moron publicly ? And yet 63 million people voted for him.  You DO realise that you have just called 63 Million Americans 'morons' ? 

Not to mention the growing crowds and growing number of rallies.  He may not speak in a speech pattern that suits @Farmer77, thank GOD Farm is not our grammar police.  Trump is still able to effectively communicate his beliefs to a growing following.  If it weren't for Deep State spies leaking stuff inappropriately, the Left wouldn't have a platform.  You kind of wonder if the inner workings of other Presidents were leaked like they are with Trump, how would their grammar compare?  It would probably be comparable.  I'm sure if you went to many Presidential libraries to do research, one could cherry-pick the worse missives of the lot to make fun of.  Your hatred is now complete.  TDS just took another high profile victim last night.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
8 hours ago, and then said:

I think we ALL would prefer to walk away.  That really isn't a choice ONE side in a war can unilaterally take.  Yes, we can choose to strike camp and head home.  Can we stay here though?  What happens when the next attack kills tens of thousands and poisons a city to make it uninhabitable for years?  You have more confidence in the actions of our enemies than I do.  They see retreat as an indication that they are winning and it emboldens them.  

Fair enough.

Here is my opinion on US involvement and blame for all things ME, "Out of sight, out of mind". It'll just take a bit getting used to.

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Setton
8 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Except you didnt just quote the letter, you literally picked the last three sentences in an attempt to imply the entire letter was written in such a way.  Its exactly what cherry picking is and has nothing to do with anything being right or wrong.

What actually is enough eloquence for the president to use and what words are grown up enough and which words arent.  You dont like Trump and that's fine, but you are letting your hate cloud your ability to think even remotely rationally.  You know no matter what Trump wrote or how he wrote it you would find some fault with it.

Seems there might have been a few things wrong with that letter... 

Quote

Turkey's Erdogan 'threw Trump's Syria letter in bin' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50080737

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
6 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

You think he speaks like a moron publicly ? And yet 63 million people voted for him.  You DO realise that you have just called 63 Million Americans 'morons' ? 

Hey, Boris,, er, RG, I resemble that remark!  :rofl: 

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Hey, Boris,, er, RG, I resemble that remark!  :rofl: 

ROFL :D

Boris indeed. Who.. it would appear.. has just negotiated a deal with the EU... 

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Setton
10 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

You think he speaks like a moron publicly ? And yet 63 million people voted for him.  You DO realise that you have just called 63 Million Americans 'morons' ? 

I'm sure you're stumbling towards a point..? 

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RavenHawk
On 10/14/2019 at 5:25 PM, Tatetopa said:

RavenHawk, I think that is a pipe dream.

To some degree I agree but that should never interfere with establishing a goal.  It’s always a pipe dream until it’s realized.  That’s a change in attitude that Trump brings.  Much more upbeat from what Obummer spread.

 

What has our policy been with many communist nations including China?  Don't talk about human rights, just trade with them and they will reform and become more westernized all by themselves.   That has not worked too well.

No it hasn’t.  I have never been a fan of this model.  Giving the enemy all your technology?  WTF!?  It was a mistake form the beginning.  The idea to engage was basically good but it was poorly managed.  This is really an issue of monopolies taking over, which is not good.  Corporations or even government are not the face of America or Americans.  Just flood China with goods does not make change.  It is a violation of the Invisible Hand.  You need the interaction of hundreds of smaller American companies spreading influence in the form of human contact as opposed to just material goods.  If it’s going to be the status quo, then no, we don’t need to be in SA.  if it is going to be different then we need more than just a military presence.  Right now, I see it as a strategic pause.  It wouldn’t hurt to establish a big naval base in the Red Sea or perhaps the Persian Gulf.  That would give us a base to guard the western approaches to the Indian Ocean and put Iran and China in check.  A major base in the Persian Gulf would drive Iran crazy.  It would be similar to the way Trump is pushing Pelosi.  You know he is trying to force her to bring the impeachment vote!?

 

We are not going to reform Islam, especially the hard line Saudi version. 

Since about 74% of Muslims support Sharia law in one form or another, I’d agree, but we can still mitigate it by actively confronting it with contact and interaction.  Having SA bond closer with Israel.  These things were the point of going into Iraq and provide a stabilizing influence between Shia and Sunni.  Regrouping in SA would still work for us.

 

A lot of Islamic countries lie Indonesia and Malaysia  have a much milder and more accepting form of Islam,

For now, but the western parts of Indonesia are semi-autonomous being ruled under Sharia law and it is spreading to the rest of the nation.  When left to its own devices, Islam will spread and establish Sharia law when no one is looking.  Indonesia is predominately Muslim anyway, but instead of equality as laid out in its constitution, Islam will strive to make a point of dominance.  I suspect that Salafism will rise up here too in a major way.

 

but I doubt we could change them either.

Well, if we present no expectation of them changing, they never will.  They can only change themselves but if nobody cares, they’ll continue the way they’ve gone for the last 1400 years.

 

And remind me why do we need influence in the region?

Nations always need influence.  That is how the world works.

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and then
14 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Except you didnt just quote the letter, you literally picked the last three sentences in an attempt to imply the entire letter was written in such a way.  Its exactly what cherry picking is and has nothing to do with anything being right or wrong.

What actually is enough eloquence for the president to use and what words are grown up enough and which words arent.  You dont like Trump and that's fine, but you are letting your hate cloud your ability to think even remotely rationally.  You know no matter what Trump wrote or how he wrote it you would find some fault with it.

I used to be amazed at the sheer staying power a lot of them have in their capacity to stay energized in the hate.  Now, it's just boring and I wonder if some of them aren't going to have real problems if he gets re-elected.

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and then
21 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Ya and neither the Yanks nor the Brits will give the Soviets as much credit is they deserve, either. 8.6 million troops lost. 

I think the aforementioned cousins across the pond from each other can be forgiven for not admiring people who started out working WITH the bad guys.  People thought Patton was insane, he turned out to be correct.

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joc
On 10/13/2019 at 3:21 PM, Tatetopa said:

But really who cares.

:yes:

We owe the Kurds nothing!  As a matter of fact...you can bank on this:  If Trump had said...we are going to stay here and protect the Kurds probably forever...The Left would have said We need to get out now!

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and then
1 minute ago, joc said:

:yes:

We owe the Kurds nothing!  As a matter of fact...you can bank on this:  If Trump had said...we are going to stay here and protect the Kurds probably forever...The Left would have said We need to get out now!

Too right they would have!  I actually think we should continue to help them as we can but I agree that Trump was in an untenable position and if he had stiffed Erdog and some troops died this thing could have spun out of control.  As it is, let them and Russia bleed.  

Nancy and Chuck got shown the door yesterday and she is absolutely losing her mind today.  She gave a little presser and was asked "at what point should we just let the voters decide" speaking of the Impeachment.  She basically said they weren't going to get that chance that the voters had decided last year to live with what their vote brought now.  IOW, it was going to be the Dems choice on Impeachment, NOT the voters.  

If Barr and Durham drop the hammer soon, it's going to be wild in DC for awhile.  As hysterical as the media has been, it should be fascinating to see what they have planned for an encore ;)  I'm hoping for spontaneous human combustion on the House floor.  :w00t:

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RavenHawk
23 minutes ago, and then said:

 I'm hoping for spontaneous human combustion on the House floor.  :w00t:

I thought Pelosi was for sure in that meeting.  I think she soon will.  TDS clouds the mind and she's going to call for the vote.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, joc said:

We owe the Kurds nothing!  As a matter of fact...you can bank on this:  If Trump had said...we are going to stay here and protect the Kurds probably forever...The Left would have said We need to get out now!

We don't owe anybody anything.  That is also true for our fellow citizens.  We are not required to help.  We do it if we think  it is right.  It is not illegal for your motto to be "Hooray for me, FU."

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joc
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

We don't owe anybody anything.  That is also true for our fellow citizens.  We are not required to help.  We do it if we think  it is right.  It is not illegal for your motto to be "Hooray for me, FU."

So you probably didn't hear Trump tonight in Dallas...but he worked out a cease fire between the Kurds and Turkey.  Hmmm...imagine that.  

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crookedspiral
14 minutes ago, joc said:

but he worked out a cease fire between the Kurds and Turkey.  Hmmm...imagine that.  

Which we all know isn't going to last very long. 

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joc
34 minutes ago, crookedspiral said:

Which we all know isn't going to last very long. 

You don't know that.  

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, joc said:

So you probably didn't hear Trump tonight in Dallas...but he worked out a cease fire between the Kurds and Turkey.  Hmmm...imagine that.  

Big deal, we don't owe them anything do we?  Waste of his time.

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Manwon Lender
3 hours ago, joc said:

So you probably didn't hear Trump tonight in Dallas...but he worked out a cease fire between the Kurds and Turkey.  Hmmm...imagine that.  

According to Turkey, it wasn't a cease fire. It's only a holding operation that will last for a few days so that the Kurds can move out of the contested areas. I don't have the confidence in your fearless leader that you do. President Trump started this situation by throwing a snow ball which turn into an avalanche. Now he's grasping at anything to lessen the impact of his decisions, what it comes down to is he's doing far too little because it is certainly too late. That's what you call damage control, all of these things should have been done before Turkey invaded Syria.

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Setton
4 hours ago, joc said:

So you probably didn't hear Trump tonight in Dallas...but he worked out a cease fire between the Kurds and Turkey.  Hmmm...imagine that.  

No, he's worked out a ceasefire between Turkey and Syria. Just for long enough for the Kurds to withdraw and let Turkey get on with their ethnic cleansing. 

He really doesn't know the Kurds at all... 

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