Will trump get impeached?

[+and-then]

On 10/15/2019 at 4:20 AM, the13bats said:

And then,

I was reading some of your other replies, to me impeachment is a really big deal and if this is just some preliminary, seeing if there is even something to impeach for, what a waste of time and money, do you see why I dont like things about both sides?

If the man has done anything worthy of impeachment then both sides already know it,  this is like a merry melodies cartoon before a 3 stooges flick?

And if this is because of some mystery whistle blowers claims, really? not just rep party but America deserves to know who is making what claims against the potus, it sure wasnt hidden from nixion or Clinton or the American people then, Why now?

 

 

What is happening today is shameful and it is damaging to our faith (what little is left) in our government.  In the 90s the Republicans hounded an unpopular Democrat perpetually but they never got nearly as overtly, totally vicious with him, IMO.  But vicious or not, they hounded him until they finally got him in a corner and caused him to make the choice between his pride and his duty.  He chose to lie under oath so they Impeached him.  The Senate acquitted him. 

When you view what's happening today through that filter, the Democrats probably have wanted some pay back since then but this scandal is more serious than anything American government has ever endured.  I honestly believe we are going to see evidence lead to indictments against former directors of National Intelligence (Clapper), FBI (Comey) and worst of all CIA (Brennan).  There is even the potential that documentation could be produced that would directly implicate former president Obama in the plan.  When people here say they believe it was a silent coup attempt, you can believe about half of our country thinks it meets that standard.  I've never seen or even imagined anything like it happening here.

If they are tried in DC, they will be exonerated because of an American tradition known as jury nullification.  A jury always has the right to intentionally disregard the evidence and choose to acquit a defendant based on a "higher" moral duty than they feel to the U.S. statute that was broken.  It was done with disgusting frequency in my part of the country after our Civil War.  If a black man was tried, for nearly anything, he went to prison, regardless what evidence was produced.  In modern times the best example of nullification was the OJ Simpson verdict.  The evidence was solid, there was no reasonable doubt that the man slaughtered two people, yet his attorneys managed to convince a jury to ignore the evidence and they chose to do so.

The answer to your question of why now is just a guess on my part but I believe it would put everything we've seen since he got elected into focus.  The absolute hysteria that the Left/Democrats demonstrated after he won seemed kind of over the top to most Trump voters.  Usually, Americans have always respected the poll results, shook hands and went about their business.  It what Americans have always done, with a few dust ups along the way but this time was starkly, strangely different.  They began protesting, filing lawsuits and shopping for politically minded judges to halt nearly every action the man took.  Nearly 3 years later, they're still at it.  This Impeachment Kabuki won't be official until Pelosi calls for a vote of the full House membership and she has said she isn't doing that yet.

Pelosi's refusal to count heads officially is a way to protect Red State representatives who might be defeated if they vote to Impeach him.  But more than that, once that vote is taken, she and Schif could no longer stop Republicans from questioning witnesses.  If they thought they had a serious chance to remove Trump they'd have no problem with taking the vote.  They know that their only chance is to question people in secret and avoid  most of the courtroom rules that apply to such questioning.  Then they compile a transcript and cherry pick statements (often out of context) to leak to the press.  No minority input or questioning and only the worst light cast on the words of witnesses they call.  This is why Trump has decided not to play their game.  He doesn't have to.  If there is ONE lesson about American government that I hope everyone can glean from this travesty it is that our Founders intentionally created a government that would be subject to the oversight by ballot and it's structure was intentionally made so that the 3 branches would be ADVERSARIAL to each other by being completely Co Equal.  The president could ignore a Supreme Court ruling if he chose to.  He certainly can veto any bill coming out of House and Senate.  The Founders wisdom concerning human nature still amazes me today.

[Doug1029]

2 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Your slogans are idiotic.

Getting out is the right thing to do.  Grading the process based upon style points is stupid.

If getting out is the right thing to do, why didn't the idiot-in-chief do it when he first took office?

Doug

[skliss]

Oh no he di'int!  Ceasefire!

[Doug1029]

46 minutes ago, and then said:

They began protesting, filing lawsuits and shopping for politically minded judges to halt nearly every action the man took.  Nearly 3 years later, they're still at it.  This Impeachment Kabuki won't be official until Pelosi calls for a vote of the full House membership and she has said she isn't doing that yet.

Democratic obstructionism of Trump is payback for Republican obstruction of Obama, which was payback for Democratic obstruction of Bush, which was payback for Republican harassment of Clinton.  It may go back farther, but my memory doesn't.

Trump has come up with some truly horrendous ideas, chief of which seems to be:  if Obama did it, I'm going to undo it.  Obama did do some good things, like almost-universal healthcare.  Wrecking good things is evil.  But Trump doesn't seem to mind..

Another is his bad faith in administering the Environmental Protection Act.  Another is his defunding of the National Park Service, and fire-fighting agencies - he's still trying to do it.  Another is his attempt to remove research datasets concerning climate change from govt computers.  Fortunately, those got backed up before he could act, so by the time he did, it would have been a waste of effort.

He is trying to end the US Postal Service and reduce govt spending on education.  Many of our small rural towns are barely hanging on by their teeth.  If the school and the post office die, they die.  Have you ever seen Talihena, Oklahoma?  When I first saw it, I thought it looked straight out of the fifties.  Now it looks straight out of the thirties.

And Trump, single-handedly has sunk our agricultural sector.  It will take ten years to recover from his trade wars.  By that time, many of our farmers will be permanently out of business.  And we had the most-productive farm system in the world.

Trump made a big deal of what a good deal-maker he was.  That did not impress North Korea - no deal there, yet.  It didn't impress Mexico, either.  NAFTA was reinstated under a new name with some minor changes.

The Deal-maker-inchief has one big opportunity left:  make a deal wherein he resigns in exchange for immunity for himself, his family and his fortune.  But he better hurry.  The window is closing on this one.

Doug

Edited October 17, 2019 by Doug1029

[+and-then]

14 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

The Deal-maker-inchief has one big opportunity left:  make a deal wherein he resigns in exchange for immunity for himself, his family and his fortune.  But he better hurry.  The window is closing on this one.

I disagree on nearly every point you made but I don't care to chew that bone any longer, it does no good.  I am curious, though, if he gets re-elected next year, what do you imagine the reaction to be around the nation?  Genuine question because it really is beginning to appear that he will get another four.

[+and-then]

17 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Democratic obstructionism of Trump is payback for

If you really believe that what has been going on since 2016 is the same old game they've played forever then you have a lot less discernment than I'd given you credit for.  The coming indictments probably won't convince you of your error but convictions won't be so easy to ignore.  Of course, unless they're tried outside the Beltway, they'd never be convicted but the evidence will have been made part of the record forever.  After all of the hysterical posturing of the media for 3 years, I think it will be an awe inspiring bit of spectacle we'll be treated to if documentary evidence in the form of memos, texts, emails and phone calls actually make it clear that this was a top-down operation against an opposition candidate and when that failed, a fully funded, coordinated attempt to nullify a national election.  

I'm sure that you'll get a smile out of that idea but the other half of the people in this nation who don't share your hatred of the Orange man actually believe this happened and if evidence is presented that is more than hearsay and innuendo, there is apt to be a groundswell for change.  That would be a good thing, IMO.

[Doug1029]

18 minutes ago, and then said:

I disagree on nearly every point you made but I don't care to chew that bone any longer, it does no good.  I am curious, though, if he gets re-elected next year, what do you imagine the reaction to be around the nation?  Genuine question because it really is beginning to appear that he will get another four.

I am hearing just the opposite.  I imagine it is because of who each of us is listening to.

He could get re-elected.  Then we will have four more years of lying, corruption and incompetence and a declining role for America in the world.  I hope not.  So far, it seems to be going well for the Dems, but the election is still a long way off.

11 minutes ago, and then said:

If you really believe that what has been going on since 2016 is the same old game they've played forever then you have a lot less discernment than I'd given you credit for.  The coming indictments probably won't convince you of your error but convictions won't be so easy to ignore.  Of course, unless they're tried outside the Beltway, they'd never be convicted but the evidence will have been made part of the record forever.  After all of the hysterical posturing of the media for 3 years, I think it will be an awe inspiring bit of spectacle we'll be treated to if documentary evidence in the form of memos, texts, emails and phone calls actually make it clear that this was a top-down operation against an opposition candidate and when that failed, a fully funded, coordinated attempt to nullify a national election.  

I'm sure that you'll get a smile out of that idea but the other half of the people in this nation who don't share your hatred of the Orange man actually believe this happened and if evidence is presented that is more than hearsay and innuendo, there is apt to be a groundswell for change.  That would be a good thing, IMO.

Exactly who do you think will get indicted/convicted?  So far, it has been only people peripherally related to TRUMP.  Manafort, Cohen, etc.  I expect we'll see more convictions as the indictments proceed to trial.  Once Trump leaves office, the flood gates will open.  He will not be protected by the DOJ memo.  I expect them to go after Eric, Donald Jr and Koeshner, too.  Then there are all those corruption and theft charges resulting from people like Pruitt.

So far, everything I'm seeing is pointing the other way.  The only real question at the moment is:  will Trump be removed from office?  That one is still u in the air, to my way of thinking.

Doug

[Coil]

How tired of this Trump and all their politicians seeking compromising evidence against each other.
And even if the young had a chance, and so, the old people will reappear in power. Even we had a quiet revolution and the people chose the young. Americans, chase these old people and choose the young. I’m surprised how they clung to Biden’s son, although earlier Trump asked the Europeans to accept Putin in the G8! Where is it seen that the American president decides to put in a word for the Russian president given the hostility between the countries? But Trump didn’t have anything for this, but Biden quickly became alarmed for his son. This suggests that government interests are not important to them but personal skin is more important and, God forbid, they are not hooked personally.

[RoofGardener]

3 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

Congress needs to take back its war-making powers.  Delegating them hasn't worked very well.

I would like to see both the Kurds and the Palestinians have their own homelands.  They will never be safe in somebody else's country.  The Jews learned that rather well.  But now they deny it to the Palestinians.

The two situations are not comparable. The Kurds are willing to negotiate. The Palestinians (or rather... the PLO ) are NOT. They demand that Israel be destroyed. 

The Kurds do NOT demand that Iraq, Iran, or Syrian be destroyed. 

Can you see the difference ?

[Doug1029]

20 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The two situations are not comparable. The Kurds are willing to negotiate. The Palestinians (or rather... the PLO ) are NOT. They demand that Israel be destroyed. 

The Kurds do NOT demand that Iraq, Iran, or Syrian be destroyed. 

Can you see the difference ?

Nobody said they were the same.  But I'd still like to see both with a homeland.  Every nation needs a homeland for its own protection.

The problem is that everybody thinks their homeland should be what it was at its maximum extent.  That's just not workable.

 

You seem to think you know all about what I think, but so far, you're not doing too well.  Would you like to have a serious discussion of our differences, or shall we just hang it up?

Doug

[ian hacktorp]

1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

If getting out is the right thing to do, why didn't the idiot-in-chief do it when he first took office?

I can see that it's going to be incredibly painful for many on the Left (as well as their strange, Neocon bedfellows) to watch Donald Trump go down in history as the greatest peace-mongering president the US, and the world, has ever had.

And today, a complete cease-fire has been announced so that all of the terrorist mercenaries you're so concerned about can leave the area safely...more compassion from Trump  That's gotta hurt, huh?

I'm thinking Lefty/Neocon trauma-therapy is a great opportunity as a growth industry.

[Doug1029]

2 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

I can see that it's going to be incredibly painful for many on the Left (as well as their strange, Neocon bedfellows) to watch Donald Trump go down in history as the greatest peace-mongering president the US, and the world, has ever had.

And today, a complete cease-fire has been announced so that all of the terrorist mercenaries you're so concerned about can leave the area safely...more compassion from Trump  That's gotta hurt, huh?

I'm thinking Lefty/Neocon trauma-therapy is a great opportunity as a growth industry.

I haven't heard of this yet.  If it works, we can go back to the Arab/Israeli Wars.  In the meantime, what is Russia doing?

Somehow, I just don't see the conservatives giving up their nice profitable war they conned us into back in 2001.  The problem I see here is that peace-making is not Trump's forte.  I'm waiting for him to revert to character.

Doug

[ian hacktorp]

1 minute ago, Doug1029 said:

The problem I see here is that peace-making is not Trump's forte.

The problem isn't what you're seeing...it's what you're NOT seeing.

And the Middle East wars weren't the product of middle American conservative ideals...far from it.  The Middle East wars were started to achieve the objectives of Neocon globalists and supported by their Leftist/Marxist puppets which have completely infiltrated the Democrat party and, to a lesser degree, the Republicans as well.

They are now losing badly and will be rooted out in the coming months.

[skliss]

Id like to see evidence of conservative profits...mine must have gotten lost in the mail.

Also proof of Trump as a war-monger since he's avoided military conflict at every turn. He's more peaceable than any president I can remember.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

6 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Hey it's not like he signed the Federal Reserve Act or made Marijuana a "Schedule 1" narcotic or drafted crime bills that tore the black community apart. 

Let's keep things in perspective here.

All right then, keeping things in perspective, it doesn't matter what you throw out there, Trump is still the most corrupt, most lawless, most inept president in modern history. And he will continue this behaviour because his base and his enablers don't care what he does. He doesn't belong in the WH; he belongs in prison.

[ian hacktorp]

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

He doesn't belong in the WH; he belongs in prison.

Yet, he'll end up on Mt. Rushmore.

How ironic is that?

[Farmer77]

Mulvaneys insane presser today I think just tilted the odds quite a bit in favor of impeachment.

Not only did he admit it was a quid pro quo and tell us to get over it, he also announced the massive emoluments violation with the G7 going to Trumps resort.

 

[ian hacktorp]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Mulvaneys insane presser today I think just tilted the odds quite a bit in favor of impeachment.

Not only did he admit it was a quid pro quo and tell us to get over it, he also announced the massive emoluments violation with the G7 going to Trumps resort.

Nice bit of fiction there^^...

Edited October 17, 2019 by hacktorp

[ian hacktorp]

10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

tilted the odds quite a bit in favor of impeachment.

Now that the House's Four Horsemen of Impeachment are down to just three left alive (or at least un-dead)...it would seem the odds of impeachment are dwindling rapidly.

(That is, if odds can actually dwindle from zero)

Lol...

Edited October 17, 2019 by hacktorp

[Kittens Are Jerks]

38 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Yet, he'll end up on Mt. Rushmore.

More likely at the bottom of it.

[Golden Duck]

9 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

tRUMP will be impeached.  The Dems already have the votes to do it.

But will he be removed from office?  The conventional wisdom is that the Senate Republican majority will protect him.  But there are some chinks in the armor:

1.  Recent polls indicate 53% of the voters support impeachment/removal.  The number keeps slowly going up.  If it gets high enough, senior Rubs are likely to throw tRUMP overboard to save the party.

2.  Scaramucchi reports that 20 Senate Rubs are ready to vote for removal from office.  If he's right, that's 69 votes to remove.  It requires 67.  But what if he's wrong?  It would be a mistake to introduce articles of impeachment too soon.  So it looks like we're in for a few more weeks of politicking while the Dems try to drum up some more support.

Stay tuned.

Doug

Mia Love was on Australian TV this morning. She maintains she is true to the Republican platform; and, members of the GOP should be called out when they deviate from the Platform.

It's her opinion that the Dems are their own worst enemy. While their maybe a conflict between Trump and the GOP platform, the Republicans will never support a process from which they're excluded.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Mulvaneys insane presser today I think just tilted the odds quite a bit in favor of impeachment.

Not only did he admit it was a quid pro quo and tell us to get over it, he also announced the massive emoluments violation with the G7 going to Trumps resort.

 

My only question is:  Are you a  p a i d   political hack?

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Yet, he'll end up on Mt. Rushmore.

Only his closest associates will know it ids his rear end carved in stone.

[Farmer77]

6 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Nice bit of fiction there^^...

So im dying know: Do you know that he is lying here, dont care and are just spreading it anyways or do you honestly think he didnt say there was a quid pro quo - not just that but that they do it all the time and we should all just "get over it"?

See Mulvaney tries  to blame "the media" but we have this thing called "video" which clearly recorded his exact words, hell in fact I watched it live and have enjoyed the replay very much many times so far tonight in fact

Edited October 18, 2019 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

  Napolitano on Doral G7: ‘As Direct and Profound a Violation of the Emoluments Clause As One Could Create’

Quote

ox News analyst Andrew Napolitano directly quoted the Constitution to say why it’s wrong for President Donald Trump to host the G-7 at a resort he owns, calling it a “direct and profound” violation.

“He has bought himself an enormous headache now with the choice of this. This is about as direct and profound a violation of the Emoluments Clause as one could create,” Napolitano told Neil Cavuto on Fox Business.

Napolitano also pointed to Mick Mulvaney’s insistence that Trump would not “profit” from hosting the G-7 Summit at Trump Doral in Florida.

“Most respectfully, Mr. Mulvaney’s focus on profit, while it may make sense in the economic world, is not what the Framers were concerned about,” Napolitano said. “They were concerned about a gift or cash coming directly or indirectly to the president of the United States, even if it’s done at a loss. Now, the president owns shares of stock in a corporation that is one of the owners of this, along with many other investors. He also owns shares of stock in the corporation that manages it. So those corporations will receive a great deal of money from foreign heads of state because this is there.”

“That’s exactly, exactly what the Emoluments Clause was written to prohibit,” he said.

I genuinely dont see how anyone can defend this one from a Constitutional perspective.