Witnesses and Corroborating Accounts

[Vaz]

A little known case that occurred in Vancouver Island in 1970.  The 70's is regarded as one of the most important decades in UFO history in terms of the sheer number of sightings and experiences.

Two nurses witness a craft hovering close. One sees a lot of interior detail, while the other presumably coming to the window a little later sees much less.  The author gives a rational explanation to account for the difference in detail that they both witnessed.  What fascinates me is that she describes the occupants. Other witnesses came forward after the event:

 

"The object was circular and had what I guess you would call a top and bottom. The bottom was silvery, like metal, and was shaped like a bowl. There was a string of bright lights around it like a necklace. The top was a dome made of something like glass. It was lit up from inside and I could see right into it."

Continuing her account in question-and-answer form, Miss Kendall said there were two male-Iike figures in the craft, one behind the other, facing to her right away from the hospital. The one in front appeared taller, or perhaps was positioned higher, than the other. Their heads were encased in close-fitting dark material.

As she watched with intense curiosity, yet completely unfrightened - "I never felt so peaceful in all my life. I wish I could have talked to them " - she became aware of seeing more of the interior of the craft and realized it was tilting. In a moment she could see to a point just below their knees and noticed they were standing in front of what looked like stools.

"They looked like fine, tall, well-built men," she said. "They were dressed in tight-fitting suits of the same material that covered their heads but their hands were bare and I noticed how human they looked. Their flesh seemed just like ours."

Intrigued as she was by the appearance of the two figures, Miss Kendall found her interest mainly centered on what looked like an instrument panel facing the one in front. One reason for this, she thought, was that she comes from a family of racing-car enthusiasts and automotive mechanics have always held a special interest for her.

"The man in front was staring at the panel as if something very important was going on, and I wondered if they might have had mechanical trouble," she said. "I even thought they might have landed on the roof of the hospital and then had trouble taking off.

She described the panel as a very large one, taking up almost half the interior of the object and reaching nearly to the top of the dome. The instruments, if that is what they were, seemed to be inset in the chrome-Iike metal of the panel and there was a variety of sizes...........................

http://www.ufobc.ca/History/1970/ufooccupants_v2.htm

 

[Vaz]

Witnesses who report seeing human like occupants inside these craft is by no means uncommon in UFO sightings.  Tight fitting clothing, control panels etc  Reminds me of the cases in Bob Pratt's book entitled UFO Danger Zone.  You can read this on line by the way.  

Type into Google and you can easily find the whole book on line.  Many cases are covered some involving people who get 'hooked' by UFO's and dragged up. At some point they are able to see occupants, very human like, both male and female.  See page 14.

Some sustain injuries and are badly traumatised.  

These cases fascinate me and raise serious questions.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Vaz
Typos

[XenoFish]

People used to witness demons in their room at night and were abducted by fairies. It's amazing how culture changes demons and fairies to aliens. 

[L.A.T.1961]

37 minutes ago, toast said:

What have these issues to do with potential epidemic risks?

 

Nothing, except epidemic's, car accidents and gun use all pose a risk to the public at large. The government is charged, in theory, with the task of keeping people safe from all risks. Why put one risk before another? 

[ChrLzs]

8 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The question becomes should a witness statement be given any weight in judging an incident or not? 

If this was a legal / court case, then yes.  It isn't.

Quote

If there are similarities between statements how should this similarity be measured ? When is a witness statement classed as good enough? 

https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr06/eyewitness

Generally, unless there is corroboration by un-related and unmotivated others, a statement by someone is not regarded as sufficient.  However, in some cases if that is all there is and it is judged to be beyond reasonable doubt - that's how the law works.

In scientific circles, that is NOT how it works, as you should know.  As your link states:

Quote

Mistaken or flawed identification has assumed a newfound prominence in recent years: It's been cited as a factor in nearly 78 percent of the nation's first 130 convictions later overturned by DNA testing, according to the New York-based Innocence Project, which works to free the wrongly convicted.

 

So the tinfoli hat cry of "there are far too many eyewitnesses statements for this not to be real!", is just a waste of time - there are lots of such reports simply because ufo's aliens/ghosts etc are culturally popular.  And whether they be mistaken, empathetic, deliberate falsehoods /hoaxing / havin' a laugh - it doesn't really matter as it is essentially a victimless 'crime'.  You don't get into trouble for making a false report.. so lots of folks do, for a multitude of reasons.

The simple fact is that we survey the skies many orders of magnitude better than we ever have, every Mary, Dick and Harriet carries increasingly better cameras, and have decent sightings gone up?  No.  Identifications have....

Edited October 14, 2019 by ChrLzs

[the13bats]

7 hours ago, quillius said:

one book 10 years after the event and the other over 45 years after the event.....I think its clear to see the impact of the event on Calvin especially..

 

you are correct though, there is a good thread on this case here on UM.

interesting to note the above the mention of 'blue' lights, cant quite remember who it was but I remember reading about another witness at the time who mentioned blue lights in the location....

Right, my tone gets lost in type, I had someone once really hammer into me how it ruined their lives, I didnt see ruined lives, at least from this alleged event, the book part, well you know how that goes.

Blue lights, there are a lot of earthy human things that cant produce blur lights,

But again, "I saw a blue light" doesnt give us proof of an alien or alien abduction.

[the13bats]

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Sceptics say eyewitness testimony is worthless. But if - say, a consultant to Project Bluebook like Hynek declares a UFO sighting (Michigan) to be "swamp gas" , well that identification works just fine for them

Interesting that you bring up that case to make your point, actually theres more to it than that,

Paraohased, please do look it up,

R Fowler a ufologists, and claimed abductee, claimed to be friends with hynek he had some reserves why hynek said the swamp Mich sighting was swamp gas which in his opinion it wasn't,

He said he had his friend hynek at his house and questioned him why did you call that Mich case swamp gas, he says hynek told him to the effect he was told to say something mundane and get out of town, or he would loose his job with blue book,

Fowler thought he just proved bluebook wasnt a legitmate study of UFOs which he did but he also showed his  buddy hynek valued a paycheck over credibility and interigrity.

So as a skeptic i dont think any of that "works just fine" just like when you or other believers make up stuff. We have to have credibility and interigrity.

 

[the13bats]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

That's the virtue of social media.  It allows people to come forward.

Do you have anything to offer besides the same old stories?

[quillius]

15 hours ago, Vaz said:

I just thought you may be interested in the woman who also saw the craft.

indeed I am, anything new on this case (its one of my favourites) I am happy to look at. 

Obviously I do prefer statements/info from the time frame but I think that has been exhausted (or at least I have exhausted myself researching it)

[quillius]

10 hours ago, the13bats said:

Right, my tone gets lost in type, I had someone once really hammer into me how it ruined their lives, I didnt see ruined lives, at least from this alleged event, the book part, well you know how that goes.

Blue lights, there are a lot of earthy human things that cant produce blur lights,

But again, "I saw a blue light" doesnt give us proof of an alien or alien abduction.

I think I would have to disagree with regards the negative impact on their lives....I have read enough to suggest it wasnt a bed of roses for them after the event

no one is suggesting blue light (or this case) is proof of alien abduction.

I am convinced the men had an experience that night and I am also convinced they believe what they were saying at the time....still its difficult for me to believe it was aliens but I have struggled to find a plausible explanation IMO. Although I know my friend Psyche has suggested a scenario for which I respectfully disagree with....

[the13bats]

2 minutes ago, quillius said:

I think I would have to disagree with regards the negative impact on their lives....I have read enough to suggest it wasnt a bed of roses for them after the event

no one is suggesting blue light (or this case) is proof of alien abduction.

I am convinced the men had an experience that night and I am also convinced they believe what they were saying at the time....still its difficult for me to believe it was aliens but I have struggled to find a plausible explanation IMO. Although I know my friend Psyche has suggested a scenario for which I respectfully disagree with....

Seems unless a heck of a dejavu we have beaten this to death in another thread, you have your opinions about it i have mine, I am not interested enough to not just say go read my thoughts about it in the other thread,

Have a good one,

[quillius]

38 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Seems unless a heck of a dejavu we have beaten this to death in another thread, you have your opinions about it i have mine, I am not interested enough to not just say go read my thoughts about it in the other thread,

Have a good one,

unless you have changed your name i dont quite recall your postings on that thread....unless of course we are talking about two different threads...

 

either way I don't have the energy for it myself....so have a good one yourself

[the13bats]

8 minutes ago, quillius said:

unless you have changed your name i dont quite recall your postings on that thread....unless of course we are talking about two different threads...

 

either way I don't have the energy for it myself....so have a good one yourself

It felt like dejavu,  in another thread on this case a very passionate fellow I dont recall his name who seemed to have emotinal interest invested had to try to debate almost my every word starting with like you my opinion that if these guys lives were ruined this case wasnt the only thing to blame, so if it wasnt you my bad.

Anyway I'm too lazy to go vamp up that other thread, it played out, and like most in the end its just a story nothing more.

[quillius]

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

It felt like dejavu,  in another thread on this case a very passionate fellow I dont recall his name who seemed to have emotinal interest invested had to try to debate almost my every word starting with like you my opinion that if these guys lives were ruined this case wasnt the only thing to blame, so if it wasnt you my bad.

Anyway I'm too lazy to go vamp up that other thread, it played out, and like most in the end its just a story nothing more.

it could have been me though I really do not recall....the thread is a couple of years old where I spent most of it debating with Psyche...so as mentioned maybe it was more than one thread...old age etc etc

but guess you are right... a story is what it is.........

 

[the13bats]

Here is an old thread on the pascagoula case with great discussion from both sides,

 

And for fun,

http://www.theironskeptic.com/articles/pascagoula/pascagoula.htm

My take...it was something but not aliens or otherworldly.

[quillius]

9 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Here is an old thread on the pascagoula case with great discussion from both sides,

 

And for fun,

http://www.theironskeptic.com/articles/pascagoula/pascagoula.htm

My take...it was something but not aliens or otherworldly.

nice one, spent 10 minutes trying to find it but couldnt....thanks

[the13bats]

11 minutes ago, quillius said:

nice one, spent 10 minutes trying to find it but couldnt....thanks

And this...

Have a blast.

[stereologist]

21 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Sceptics say eyewitness testimony is worthless. But if - say, a consultant to Project Bluebook like Hynek declares a UFO sighting (Michigan) to be "swamp gas" , well that identification works just fine for them

Did it? I think you should go back and find out how mistaken you are.

[stereologist]

21 hours ago, Vaz said:

It's a good job people don't listen to them.  I strongly recommend that you don't.

So you think it is wrong for people to look for actual evidence? You want people to blindly believe every story tossed their way?

[stereologist]

20 hours ago, Vaz said:

Far too many cases to be dismissed I'm afraid.  The classic night time abductions could possibly be the result of some sleep paralysis or related phenomena (however I personally doubt it) , but by no means all abductions are like that.  Consider the cases of Villas Boas, Travis Walton, Carl Higdon, The Pascagoula Case, The Allagash Four, The Hills, John Salter Jr............and these are only the well documented ones.  None of these were the classic 'asleep in bed type' abductions.

Then there are literally scores of others.  Less well known.  Hopefully I'll cover many of these for you.  In the meantime take a look here and get a feel for the extent of these cases over the last 70 years or so:

https://www.ufoinsight.com/category/aliens/

 

One of the mistakes made by many in the fringy areas is to think that a lot of stories is better than a few stories.

You seem to be a believer in what is known as residualization. That is the idea that with so much there must be some residue of stories that are true. Unlike most believers in the process of residualization you actually point out some of the stories. Travis Walton is a phony in my opinion. He was about to lose a good amount of cash because he did not get his contract done in time so he pulled the abduction stunt to prevent a penalty clause in the contract. The fact that no one seemed worried while he was gone shows that they knew he was alright and not abducted as claimed. The Hills case doesn't seem real either.

As you point out these are classic 'asleep in bed type' abduction stories. Apparently asleep in bed is not required to come up with an abduction story.

[stereologist]

19 hours ago, Vaz said:

Foresnic approval isn't required when so many people from all walks of life have come foreward.  That is infinitely more powerful than the stamp of modern science.

In very recent times the USAF has made some 'painful' admissions.  Not that this was needed though.

Here you go claiming the existence of a residue. The residue of course is what is left over when the fakes, lies, fairy tales, imaginations, mistakes, and whatever other things are removed.

And no it is not more powerful than actual evidence. It is wishful thinking. It is belief without reason.

[Vaz]

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

And this...

Have a blast.

Very nice.  These cases are well supported.  In some cases there are many independent witnesses, while others cases corroborate each other with specific details.

The cases mentioned in Bob Pratt's book UFO Danger Zone are amazing.  All seem to be unfriendly vistors trying to abduct people literally off the street.  I was amazed to read that two seperate witnesses described seeing what looked like ordinary humans piloting the craft.  It's a shame that in the case at Vancouver island the witness did not get a look at their facial features.  Were they the short humanoids as reported by The Hills, or more like us as described by Travis Walton and the witnesses in Bob's book?  One of the witnesses in Bobs book reported that one of the male pilots had a beard.

Who are they and where are they from?  Are they related to us?  Why do they want to snatch Brazilians off the street?  Are they looking for slaves?  New genetic samples?  Are they still around or have they moved on?  Are they the same type that terrorised Colares in 1977?  Are these they types that mutilated Sgt Jonathon Lovett or Todd Sees? 

How do they make these craft?  What is the power source?  How do they navigate?

 

 

 

[stereologist]

18 hours ago, Vaz said:

Witnesses who report seeing human like occupants inside these craft is by no means uncommon in UFO sightings.  Tight fitting clothing, control panels etc  Reminds me of the cases in Bob Pratt's book entitled UFO Danger Zone.  You can read this on line by the way.  

Type into Google and you can easily find the whole book on line.  Many cases are covered some involving people who get 'hooked' by UFO's and dragged up. At some point they are able to see occupants, very human like, both male and female.  See page 14.

Some sustain injuries and are badly traumatised.  

These cases fascinate me and raise serious questions.

What people see is often dependent on the latest movies. That makes the aliens they see scriptids. A scriptid is a being derived from a script. They see something which is similar to the level of technology they are familiar with. 

The mechanical probes people describe are so 1800s.

[Vaz]

9 minutes ago, stereologist said:

What people see is often dependent on the latest movies. That makes the aliens they see scriptids. A scriptid is a being derived from a script. They see something which is similar to the level of technology they are familiar with. 

The mechanical probes people describe are so 1800s.

What really tickles me is that there is a feature on CNN today that scientists apparently found traces of life on Mars in the 70's.  Also that Astronomers are frantically discovering planets around Suns by detecting the minute wobble of stars!  

Just shows you how out of touch, blind and stuck up there own ..............holes these people really are.  

Edited October 15, 2019 by Vaz
Typo

[Vaz]

Another famous case is the Lonnie Zamorra sighting of 24th April 1964.  The craft left trace evidence.  Other people witnessed low flying craft in the area while another witnessed a similar shaped craft landing 2 days later also in New Mexico.  Zamorra reported seeing small occupants around the craft wearing white coveralls.  I'm sure the case is well known to people.

https://www.ufoinsight.com/zamora-incident-ufo-socorro-a-case-study/

What isn't generally known is that Gary Wilcox on a farm in New York also witnessed a similar shaped craft (egg shaped) and small occupants wearing 'shiney white metallic suits' collecting plant speciments.  This happened also on the 24th April in the morning.  He himself would later receive medical treatment for radiation burns after touching the craft and nothing would grow on large portions of his land.

https://www.ufoinsight.com/the-gary-wilcox-occupant-encounter-the-fertilizer-case/

Was it a coincidence that both Zamorra and Wilcox described a similar craft and occupants on the very same day in two distinct parts of the US?  

Edited October 15, 2019 by Vaz