Creating Our Own Reality

[RoseDancer]

Question-s 

Just read the thread on predictions. 

If we do create our own reality from our thoughts words and action, are we creating the Prophecies? 

Are we truly responsible for everything that happens on this Earth?

[Bendy Demon]

We don't create our own reality..not physically. We create our own interpretation of reality especially if we don't like actual reality.

However sometimes we are responsible for what happens but at other times we endure the after-effects of the actions of others. There is no prophecy, regardless of what the religious communities say.

We cause our own problems, not god or demons (I take issue with that). Humans and humans alone are the cause of their own problems, we tolerate the aberrated thinking of those in high positions, allowing them to dictate policies that hurt others.

This generation may not be responsible for all the stuff that goes on but we can still try to do things to change and the best way to start is by working on our own mindsets and stop relying on mysticism to tell us what to think.

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, RoseDancer said:

Question-s 

Just read the thread on predictions. 

If we do create our own reality from our thoughts words and action, are we creating the Prophecies? 

Are we truly responsible for everything that happens on this Earth?

For the most part every action is a 'self-fulfilling prophecy' of some sort. Our reality is a subjective experience based on objective existence. 

[XenoFish]

To be a bit more technical, we shape our lives through our beliefs and actions. We change the objective reality through what we do. 

[Jodie.Lynne]

10 minutes ago, RoseDancer said:

If we do create our own reality from our thoughts words and action, are we creating the Prophecies? 

It is possible to both create and fulfill "prophecies" that we make for ourselves, that affect ourselves, within the limits of our own sphere of control.

"I want to lose 10 pounds" "I want to get a new car", etc., etc.

Change the wording to read "I predict..." I will lose 10 pounds, I will get a new car. The 'prediction' will only come true if one works towards it.

 

Quote

Are we truly responsible for everything that happens on this Earth?

You need to explain what you mean by this statement. Am I responsible for what you do? No, of course not. Am I responsible for what I do? Yes, of course.

The question should be: Can you be held accountable for your actions?

[freetoroam]

44 minutes ago, RoseDancer said:

If we do create our own reality from our thoughts words and action, are we creating the Prophecies? 

We do not create our own realities. We are part of nature and have been born into our lives and the reality which comes with it.

We do have some control.over our lives as we grow older and learn and gain experiences, but this varies at stages during our lifetime.

Eg: small children do not have control on their lives. They develope and the world around them have a influence on how they develope and how they could be as an adult.

Teenagers believe they have control on their lives, much because they want it, but it does not mean they actually do, especially while they still harbour naivity and inexperience.

Adults have opportunities to make choices, but society, money, relationships, health, have an influence on this.

We can create our own plans.and aim for them, but keep in mind the above can have unforeseen influences on this.

We can all predict our future, it does not mean it will turn out that way.

Predictions can be based on past facts and evidence and these are more likely to come true, it is the religious predictions based on believe which do not. There has been no end of the world, and boy have we had enough predictions on that one, and there will be no return or arrival of a messiah. 

What do you class as "reality"? 

 

[papageorge1]

I think all of what we call 'reality' is a creation of consciousness. Now obviously at are level of existence we only have limited control of what happens.

[+joc]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I think all of what we call 'reality' is a creation of consciousness. Now obviously at are level of existence we only have limited control of what happens.

I know that is what you think...and...I understand why you think it.  But it just makes more sense to me that...instead of our consciousness 'creating' reality....our consciousness is part of reality and allows us to understand and think about the hardness of the concrete in very abstract terms.  

It's pretty provable and many have by their own personal experience.  If you pass out and hit your head on the concrete...it won't be pretty...unconscious or conscious the reality is exactly the same.

[papageorge1]

<self-deleted> <oops>

Edited October 13, 2019 by papageorge1

[papageorge1]

37 minutes ago, joc said:

I know that is what you think...and...I understand why you think it.  

Actually what you are saying is the more straight-forward position. Mine is the one more counter-intuitive.

40 minutes ago, joc said:

 But it just makes more sense to me that...instead of our consciousness 'creating' reality....our consciousness is part of reality and allows us to understand and think about the hardness of the concrete in very abstract terms.  

It's pretty provable and many have by their own personal experience.  If you pass out and hit your head on the concrete...it won't be pretty...unconscious or conscious the reality is exactly the same.

Here's a synopsis of the two schools of thought:

Materialist (joc): Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter

Non-Dualism (papa): Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of Consciousness

 

Why non-dualism for papa? 1) Evidence from the paranormal argues strongly for intelligence without a physical brain. 2) Those masters/sages/gurus I have come to respect as having experienced consciousness at a deeper level than I, tell us that Consciousness is the creator behind all this. In fact they tell us Consciousness/God/Brahman is all that is permanent and real and the material reality is just a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman.

I am sure this thinking comes off as counter-intuitive to those not familiar with this line of thought.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Actually what you are saying is the more straight-forward position. Mine is the one more counter-intuitive.

Here's a synopsis of the two schools of thought:

Materialist (joc): Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter

Non-Dualism (papa): Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of Consciousness

 

Why non-dualism for papa? 1) Evidence from the paranormal argues strongly for intelligence without a physical brain. 2) Those masters/sages/gurus I have come to respect as having experienced consciousness at a deeper level than I, tell us that Consciousness is the creator behind all this. In fact they tell us Consciousness/God/Brahman is all that is permanent and real and the material reality is just a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman.

I am sure this thinking comes off as counter-intuitive to those not familiar with this line of thought.

The problem is that without matter, consciousness can not exist. 

[papageorge1]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The problem is that without matter, consciousness can not exist. 

Perfect example of materialist thinking.

In non-dualism; Consciousness is FUNDAMENTAL meaning it is not created. Consciousness exists as the ground of all reality. 'Matter' can be likened to just the props in this play/drama of the universe. What is Matter? Consciousness at creative play.

Edited October 13, 2019 by papageorge1

[+joc]

3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Actually what you are saying is the more straight-forward position. Mine is the one more counter-intuitive.

Here's a synopsis of the two schools of thought:

Materialist (joc): Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter

Non-Dualism (papa): Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of Consciousness

 

Why non-dualism for papa? 1) Evidence from the paranormal argues strongly for intelligence without a physical brain. 2) Those masters/sages/gurus I have come to respect as having experienced consciousness at a deeper level than I, tell us that Consciousness is the creator behind all this. In fact they tell us Consciousness/God/Brahman is all that is permanent and real and the material reality is just a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman.

I am sure this thinking comes off as counter-intuitive to those not familiar with this line of thought.

I have gone very deep into the Consciousness/God/Brahman rabbit hole my own self.  Interestingly enough...have you ever seen real rabbits go down real rabbit holes?  They will come up somewhere else and exit through a different hole.  Same surface...different hole.

While 'evidence' from the paranormal argues strongly for intelligence without a physical brain....the real 'evidence' against that is that we have no evidence of any kind of intelligence without a brain.  It is the perceptions of the unknown that have spawned many materialists like Newton and Einstein to find the real answers to the real questions.

How can life exist outside of the material body?  If it could ...why would there be a need for a material body...and why must the material body be looked upon as a 'house' for Consciousness.  True Consciousness without a brain would not need the material world to exist.  And yet...we have nothing to see but the material world.

 

[papageorge1]

10 minutes ago, joc said:

I have gone very deep into the Consciousness/God/Brahman rabbit hole my own self.  Interestingly enough...have you ever seen real rabbits go down real rabbit holes?  They will come up somewhere else and exit through a different hole.  Same surface...different hole.

While 'evidence' from the paranormal argues strongly for intelligence without a physical brain....the real 'evidence' against that is that we have no evidence of any kind of intelligence without a brain.  It is the perceptions of the unknown that have spawned many materialists like Newton and Einstein to find the real answers to the real questions.

How can life exist outside of the material body?  If it could ...why would there be a need for a material body...and why must the material body be looked upon as a 'house' for Consciousness.  True Consciousness without a brain would not need the material world to exist.  And yet...we have nothing to see but the material world.

 

Consciousness/God/Brahman alone is the only permanent 'real'.

The universe is then a creative expression of  Consciousness/God/Brahman. In Act I, Consciousness identifies with separate finite thought-forms (bodies of the physical and super-physical planes). In Act II through the accumulation of wisdom gained, the finite realizes its Oneness with the All/God/Brahman.

Why does Consciousness/God/Brahman do this? The answer is much like why do humans create art/plays with no practical purpose? To Experience and explore their creative nature!

[+joc]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

Consciousness/God/Brahman alone is the only permanent 'real'.

The universe is then a creative expression of  Consciousness/God/Brahman. In Act I, Consciousness identifies with separate finite thought-forms (bodies of the physical and super-physical planes). In Act II through the accumulation of wisdom gained, the finite realizes its Oneness with the All/God/Brahman.

Why does Consciousness/God/Brahman do this? The answer is much like why do humans create art/plays with no practical purpose? To Experience and explore their creative nature!

yet we live in a Universe that contains trillions of galaxies....

...I maintain and always will, that Consciousness is a biproduct of Material.  Not the other way around.  In reality, what is real is what is real and everything else is not.

[lightly]

These sorts of discussions always make me start wondering how life and consciousness are alike...and different.

A tree is alive .   Is the life in a tree a form or level of consciousness ?   How about grass, flowers, insects, fish, rabbits ? Aha!  rabbits are conscious !?   How about a fish?  Conscious ?  Where exactly is the line drawn between  LIFE  and Consciousness?

   I tend to believe ,some days more than others, that the entire universe is one...and aware.  Because that's how I Am.   Silly huh?         I guess it's a harmless enough belief...I prefer a living Universe to a dead one !  

[papageorge1]

2 minutes ago, lightly said:

These sorts of discussions always make me start wondering how life and consciousness are alike...and different.

A tree is alive .   Is the life in a tree a form or level of consciousness ?   How about grass, flowers, insects, fish, rabbits ? Aha!  rabbits are conscious !?   How about a fish?  Conscious ?  Where exactly is the line drawn between  LIFE  and Consciousness?

   I tend to believe ,some days more than others, that the entire universe is one...and aware.  Because that's how I Am.   Silly huh?         I guess it's a harmless enough belief...I prefer a living Universe to a dead one !  

Always interesting thoughts.

What is the difference between animate and inanimate. To a materialist it is just a more complicated material composition. To a spiritualist, this mysterious thing called life  incarnates animate things.

[papageorge1]

17 minutes ago, joc said:

 

...I maintain and always will, 

Right there you are no longer in an open thinking mode but in a ‘worldview defense’ mode.

Open thinking is always the better place.

[Emma_Acid]

15 minutes ago, lightly said:

Where exactly is the line drawn between  LIFE  and Consciousness?

Eh? There is no "line" to be drawn between the two. I don't understand why you're doing that.

[lightly]

1 minute ago, Emma_Acid said:

Eh? There is no "line" to be drawn between the two. I don't understand why you're doing that.

No distinction/line between life and consciousness ?    A flower is alive right?  Is it conscious?   Jelly fish?  Snail? Worm? Frog??*!

   Living things with sophisticated "enough"  brains are conscious?  And anything with a not sophisticated enough brain is unconscious?  Alive...but unaware?   Physically responsive but not conscious?  

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

In non-dualism; Consciousness is FUNDAMENTAL meaning it is not created.

Where was your consciousness before you were conceived?

[Emma_Acid]

13 minutes ago, lightly said:

No distinction/line between life and consciousness ?    A flower is alive right?  Is it conscious?   Jelly fish?  Snail? Worm? Frog??*!

   Living things with sophisticated "enough"  brains are conscious?  And anything with a not sophisticated enough brain is unconscious?  Alive...but unaware?   Physically responsive but not conscious?  

 

Its like saying there is a distinctive line between "a car's motor" and "driving". They're not things you draw a line between. One is the project of the other, and isn't really a thing unto itself. Consciousness is, beyond any doubt, the result of multiple processes taking place in the brain. Damage the brain, and you damage consciousness. Consciousness is not a "thing" they're going to find rattling around inside peoples' heads.

Different amounts of brain activity will result in different types of consciousness. Are you getting "consciousness" mixed up with self-consciousness?

[Emma_Acid]

3 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Where was your consciousness before you were conceived?

And where was the consciousness that "created" the universe if all matter is the result of conscious thought?

[lightly]

25 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Its like saying there is a distinctive line between "a car's motor" and "driving". They're not things you draw a line between. One is the project of the other, and isn't really a thing unto itself. Consciousness is, beyond any doubt, the result of multiple processes taking place in the brain. Damage the brain, and you damage consciousness. Consciousness is not a "thing" they're going to find rattling around inside peoples' heads.

Different amounts of brain activity will result in different types of consciousness. Are you getting "consciousness" mixed up with self-consciousness?

no,  I guess I'm wondering about awareness?   A flower is alive.    Is it conscious?  Nope, I guess not.

   Does it interact with it's environment .  Yes.   Could that be called..Awareness ?   When does awareness become conciousness?   There are different sorts of brains and sort of brains?   

Edited October 13, 2019 by lightly

[Piney]

29 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

And where was the consciousness that "created" the universe if all matter is the result of conscious thought?

According to real Eastern thought, contained in the singularity that existed before.  He trying to describe a Living Universe that existed for eternity and recreates itself. But when you only speak English and read Theosophy "Brahma/ Tien" eludes you.