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RoseDancer

Creating Our Own Reality

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I think we probably have similar definitions of fundamental. In the view I am espousing physical matter can only disable the physical expression of consciousness. Consciousness itself is fundamental meaning it is uncreated and eternal.

Then you're changing the definition of consciousness.

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papageorge1
4 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Then you're changing the definition of consciousness.

No change. I never defined consciousness to be a physical-only process/experience.

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

It is subtle and  extra-dimensional and at vibratory rates orders of magnitude beyond physical matter meaning it is not directly detectable by the physical senses and instruments.

You said it's super-physical.  What is it's molecular vibration frequency then?

It sounds like you're just repeating something you've heard without understanding the words.

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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

No change. I never defined consciousness to be a physical-only process/experience.

Consciousness is the state of mental awareness, the fact that physical matter can disable it contradicts your non-dualistic view.

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papageorge1
6 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

You said it's super-physical.  What is it's molecular vibration frequency then?

It sounds like you're just repeating something you've heard without understanding the words.

The concept of a vibratory rate is not that challenging.

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papageorge1
5 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Consciousness is the state of mental awareness, the fact that physical matter can disable it contradicts your non-dualistic view.

What 'Consciousness Is' is considered one of the great mysteries of modern thought.

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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

The concept of a vibratory rate is not that challenging.

Yet your inability to answer it suggests you're just repeating what you've heard.

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Rlyeh
3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

What 'Consciousness Is' is considered one of the great mysteries of modern thought.

Yet we know what loss of consciousness is.

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Phaeton80
20 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The problem is that without matter, consciousness can not exist. 


I dispute that notion (as would probably most religious minded).. Besides the fact we havent established a clear definition of the concept of consciousness (I think?), everything in this reality bares down to energy, frequency and vibration. The specific variables within those fundamentals dictate its specific form, whether or not such a set of variables results into something tangible, measurable (to us). Seems to me matter is a bandwidth of vibration in the range that is common to our perception and understanding.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:


I dispute that notion (as would probably most religious minded).. Besides the fact we havent established a clear definition of the concept of consciousness (I think?), everything in this reality bares down to energy, frequency and vibration. The specific variables within those fundamentals dictate its specific form, whether or not such a set of variables results into something tangible, measurable (to us). Seems to me matter is a bandwidth of vibration in the range that is common to our perception and understanding.

Sure whatever. I expect nothing less from those who are spiritually/religious minded. 

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papageorge1
11 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Yet we know what loss of consciousness is.

Only the loss of its physical expression.

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Rlyeh
Just now, papageorge1 said:

Only the loss of its physical expression.

And mental, in which case is no different than complete loss of consciousness.

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papageorge1
17 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

And mental, in which case is no different than complete loss of consciousness.

My point has been that consciousness is not a product of the brain but a mystery eternal and fundamental. Certainly you can destroy or temporarily stop brain consciousness but that consciousness still exists on the higher planes. 

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Phaeton80
29 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Sure whatever. I expect nothing less from those who are spiritually/religious minded. 


What a lovely juvenile, arrogant response.

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:


What a lovely juvenile, arrogant response.

 

Just sounds like quantum mysticism. People wanting to insert their religious/spiritual nonsense where it doesn't belong. 

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Coil
22 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Materialist (joc): Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter

Non-Dualism (papa): Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of Consciousness

Brahman also contains matter (Sat level - radiant matter) only in a subtle form, therefore consciousness-matter always goes together. If the spirit or subtle bodies contain only consciousness, they could not create material bodies / universe and connect with the physical body ( and the creative mind of the universe awakens on the second level, Cit)

On the spiritual level, man controls matter freely, and on the physical level, matter dictates its own conditions (these are called “laws” that are supposedly impossible to transcend), therefore it seems that matter surpasses consciousness or is primary than consciousness.
 For example, the body dies and our consciousness cannot prevent death. At the spiritual level, however, there is no death and attrition-entropy. Therefore, it seems to us that spirit is one thing and matter is another and these categories contradict each other (one eternal and another mortal), but in fact it is just the weakness of our earthly consciousness in the inability to control matter.

That is why there is reincarnation on earth as a way to continue the development-training further despite the death of the body and for the spirit, the death of the body does not change anything in its plans. Eventually,the spirit will bring evolution to the transformation of the body into an immortal body as it was originally and our physical world become the same as the world of God as it is the purpose of God and the meaning of the existence of the physical universe and the physical level of being. Eternal life, in an eternal body, in eternal bliss, knowledge and creativity.

 

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Rlyeh
20 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My point has been that consciousness is not a product of the brain but a mystery eternal and fundamental. Certainly you can destroy or temporarily stop brain consciousness but that consciousness still exists on the higher planes. 

If they're not conscious then no it doesn't.  It's like saying bovine excrement is really gold on a higher plane.

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papageorge1
34 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

If they're not conscious then no it doesn't.  It's like saying bovine excrement is really gold on a higher plane.

I am asserting that after brain death, consciousness can still be experienced at even a richer level through the astral body on the astral plane.

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RoseDancer
On 10/13/2019 at 5:08 PM, freetoroam said:

What do you class as "reality"?

Reality is what I know and I know nothing. 

I'm the oldest of five and when we get together, talking about the past no two of us remember an event the same way. 

What is reality to you? 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I am asserting that after brain death, consciousness can still be experienced at even a richer level through the astral body on the astral plane.

Which there is zero evidence for the existence of. 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, RoseDancer said:

I'm the oldest of five and when we get together, talking about the past no two of us remember an event the same way. 

Memory is malleable. Every time we recall something we edit that memory a bit. We can even create false memories of events and things that never happened. 

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Phaeton80
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Just sounds like quantum mysticism. People wanting to insert their religious/spiritual nonsense where it doesn't belong. 


Allright, so you suppose Tesla is 'a quantum mysticist'.

Thats cute.

 

Edited by Phaeton80
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papageorge1
39 minutes ago, Coil said:

Brahman also contains matter (Sat level - radiant matter) only in a subtle form, therefore consciousness-matter always goes together. If the spirit or subtle bodies contain only consciousness, they could not create material bodies / universe and connect with the physical body ( and the creative mind of the universe awakens on the second level, Cit)

No, in Advaita Vedanta thought that I am espousing, Brahman is pure consciousness best described as being-awareness-bliss (sat-cit-Ananda). All matter physical and subtle are part of Maya (illusion). Brahman alone does not contain subtle matter.

43 minutes ago, Coil said:

 

On the spiritual level, man controls matter freely, and on the physical level, matter dictates its own conditions (these are called “laws” that are supposedly impossible to transcend), therefore it seems that matter surpasses consciousness or is primary than consciousness.
 For example, the body dies and our consciousness cannot prevent death. At the spiritual level, however, there is no death and attrition-entropy. Therefore, it seems to us that spirit is one thing and matter is another and these categories contradict each other (one eternal and another mortal), but in fact it is just the weakness of our earthly consciousness in the inability to control matter.

That is why there is reincarnation on earth as a way to continue the development-training further despite the death of the body and for the spirit, the death of the body does not change anything in its plans. Eventually,the spirit will bring evolution to the transformation of the body into an immortal body as it was originally and our physical world become the same as the world of God as it is the purpose of God and the meaning of the existence of the physical universe and the physical level of being. Eternal life, in an eternal body, in eternal bliss, knowledge and creativity.

 

I think I agree with much of what is said in this part.

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papageorge1
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Which there is zero evidence for the existence of. 

And I contend the evidence is strong but not worth rehashing with a known negativist.

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XenoFish
11 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:


Allright, so you suppose Tesla is 'a quantum mysticist'.

Thats qute.

 

I don't care about tesla. What the hell is 'qute'? 

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