Dark_Grey Posted October 17, 2019 #26 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, aztek said: pretty clear is it way past that point There are young people in major Universities right now who think black people don't have ID's or access to the internet. That's how insular and disconnected the upper class has become. They literally see minorities as dumb apes who need to be gently herded but we are the racists for treating them like everyone else. It boggles the mind. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #27 Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, OverSword said: I don't think he ever specifically mentions any hierarchical organized religion. I myself am religious but don't believe in organized religion. However, everyone should recognize where he was speaking, Notre Dame is a Catholic College and a Catholic audience is likely who he was addressing. Regardless of his position in our government William Barr is welcome to his own opinions and free to express them as guaranteed in our constitution. As well, he being attacked for this opinion only serves to strengthen the truth of his statement for those that already agree with him. I see your point, however he is in a position of authority and he is using that authority to try to change things that should not be changed. It doesn't matter who his audience is, his idea that only his christian values are respectable and good for the country and anyone else who does not share his religion is bad for the country is incendiary and divisive. Whether he is stating his opinion or rabble rousing, it has the same effect. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #28 Share Posted October 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, aztek said: you mean war on people who discriminate against others religious beliefs? like in gay cake case? should your imaginary gender be above my religious beliefs? You can believe anything you like, as long as you don't infringe on someone else's belief. The whole subject is really about bullying people in to thinking the world is against them so they will vote a certain way. I agree, if someone doesn't want to sell you a cake and their business is a private business they have that right. We have too many people going overboard in this country and it is used as fodder by the owners of the media to keep us foaming at the mouth emotionally insane and angry at each other so they can slip congress and the senate more money under the table to vote away more of our rights. You are one by always brining up and blaming "the left" as if that is a real thing. Get a grip and take a breath. Any time you think in US vs THEM you are being manipulated. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #29 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said: I see your point, however he is in a position of authority and he is using that authority to try to change things that should not be changed. It doesn't matter who his audience is, his idea that only his christian values are respectable and good for the country and anyone else who does not share his religion is bad for the country is incendiary and divisive. Whether he is stating his opinion or rabble rousing, it has the same effect. isn't that exactly what left is doing, in addition to war on christianity, white males, traditional families? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #30 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Desertrat56 said: You can believe anything you like, as long as you don't infringe on someone else's belief. well, in real world their belief is about infringing on mine 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #31 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, aztek said: well, in real world their belief is about infringing on mine Give me an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #32 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Desertrat56 said: Give me an example. gay cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #33 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said: . Any time you think in US vs THEM you are being manipulated. this is called reaction to reality, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #34 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, aztek said: gay cake How does that infringe on your beliefs? Is someone shoving it down your throat? Are they leaving it on your door step? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #35 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said: How does that infringe on your beliefs? Is someone shoving it down your throat? do you know what that case is about? christian beliefs do not recognize homosexuality, making me recognize it IS infringement on my beliefs, so yes it is being showed down my throat Edited October 17, 2019 by aztek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #36 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, aztek said: do you know what that case is about? christian beliefs do not recognize homosexuality, making me recognize it IS infringement on my beliefs, so yes it is being showed down my throat I know about the case, I mentioned it in a prior post. I disagree with the law suit, however, it has no bearing on my life except as a piece of information. Are you the owner of that bakery? Were laws changed because of that law suit to force you to bake a cake for someone you don't want to bake a cake for? Have you been forced to bake a LGBT cake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #37 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said: I know about the case, I mentioned it in a prior post. I disagree with the law suit, however, it has no bearing on my life except as a piece of information. Are you the owner of that bakery? Were laws changed because of that law suit to force you to bake a cake for someone you don't want to bake a cake for? Have you been forced to bake a LGBT cake? so what you mean i have to voice my opinion, and concerns ONLY when it comes to me personally? you do know that saying. " when they came for jews i said nothing cuz i was not a jew...... etc Edited October 17, 2019 by aztek 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted October 17, 2019 #38 Share Posted October 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Sorry, I was too slow to catch this point. Could you back up a bit and explain a bit further? I was responding to Quote The main freedom that the religious in this country think there is a 'war' on is their 'freedom' to discriminate against people. Thankfully we do have some laws in place to prevent their exercising some of that questionable 'freedom'. I was giving examples of legitimate reasons a religious person may feel the State is "waging war" on them. LG seems to be implying all religious people are racist as in his/her mind, religious people are most concerned about their ability to make racist remarks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #39 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, aztek said: so what you mean i have to voice my opinion, and concerns ONLY when it comes to me personally? No, but you can't take someone else's experience and pretend like that affects you when it doesn't. Voice your opinion all you want, that isn't what we were talking about though, was it. I asked you how does someone infringe on your beliefs and you brought up something that happened to someone else. Are you sitting in your mother's basement letting her take care of you or are you actually out in the world having your own experiences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #40 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Desertrat56 said: No, but you can't take someone else's experience and pretend like that affects you when it doesn't. are you trans, or gay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted October 17, 2019 #41 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said: I know about the case, I mentioned it in a prior post. I disagree with the law suit, however, it has no bearing on my life except as a piece of information. Are you the owner of that bakery? Were laws changed because of that law suit to force you to bake a cake for someone you don't want to bake a cake for? Have you been forced to bake a LGBT cake? It's freedom for everybody or freedom for nobody. Today's progressive issue is subject to change so the underlying current must always be to support individual freedoms. Anyone is free to be gay, the business owner is free to refuse customers at his own discretion. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #42 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: It's freedom for everybody or freedom for nobody. Today's progressive issue is subject to change so the underlying current must always be to support individual freedoms. Anyone is free to be gay, the business owner is free to refuse customers at his own discretion. Right, I agree and that is what I started with but now I realize @aztek is a troll and I should not have engaged. Edited October 17, 2019 by Desertrat56 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #43 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Desertrat56 said: @aztek is a troll. why? because your logic is a dead end logic, and i just showed it to you, turned it against you, and you have nothing to counter it with? in that case it is a compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #44 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, aztek said: why? because your logic is a dead end logic, and i just showed it to you, turned it against you, and you have nothing to counter it with? in that case it is a compliment No, because you never answered my questions and you accused me of being something you think is an insult, which has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you being a troll. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted October 17, 2019 #45 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said: No, because you never answered my questions and you accused me of being something you think is an insult, which has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you being a troll. thanks for proving my point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robotic Jew Posted October 17, 2019 #46 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The country and the world will be a much better place when all religion is cast aside and referenced only a joke about what fools people of the past were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted October 17, 2019 #47 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said: No, because you never answered my questions and you accused me of being something you think is an insult, which has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you being a troll. I think he was asking if you are gay because his point was that you told him he shouldn't care about a Christian being made to bake a cake for a gay person since he individually is not forced to make the cake. So by that logic, if you are not gay then you should not care about the person wanting the cake since it does not effect you individually. I think that is what he was getting at anyways. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted October 17, 2019 #48 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 hours ago, BrooklynGuy said: A good article on the efforts to rid our country of all religion and the positive role faith plays in society imho. Only 69 days till Christmas. William Barr explains how people who hate religion are ruining our country Judging by the spittle-flecked hatred coming his way, Attorney General Bill Barr scored a bull’s-eye on the intolerant left with his speech at Notre Dame Saturday defending religious liberty. For 50 years, he said, militant secularists have been waging deliberate war on the Judeo-Christian morality that underpins our system of government, with terrible consequences for the health of our society, including family breakdown, alienated males, drug addiction, depression and suicide. He explained that the Founding Fathers set up America as a unique “experiment” in which they trusted the people to govern themselves. Read more: https://nypost.com/2019/10/16/devine-perverse-william-barr-bashing-makes-little-sense/ The more I hear from Barr the more I respect him. I believe we are at a crossroads in this nation and we are about to decide if we will be mature enough to remain free or if we've become willing to trade freedom for relative comfort. I think Barr, and hopefully Durham, will be the men who signal which direction we've decided on. They may fail miserably but if they at least tell the truth about what has been done to the citizens here I will always respect them for trying. When you see the vitriol that follows a speech that is in no way aggressive or demeaning to specific individuals, it clarifies how far our civic discourse has been damaged. I believe that actions begin with thoughts and word choices are the measure of those thoughts. Considering the trends we see online and on air today, the actions we can expect in the future are not going to be calm and well-considered. If Barr and Durham take the evidence they find and attempt to hold people in high places under Obama to account for their crimes and misdeeds, I believe we will look back on the noise around Mueller's investigation and think of it as "the good old days" in comparison. I honestly don't like to imagine what the noise level will be and how far agitated, angry, near hysterical people may be willing to go. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 17, 2019 #49 Share Posted October 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: I think he was asking if you are gay because his point was that you told him he shouldn't care about a Christian being made to bake a cake for a gay person since he individually is not forced to make the cake. So by that logic, if you are not gay then you should not care about the person wanting the cake since it does not effect you individually. I think that is what he was getting at anyways. Well that makes two of you who misread what I posted. I said this before, no one should be forced to sell something to someone they don't want to serve if they own a private business. He was trolling and did not answer any of my questions just stated his beliefs were being infringed on by "gay cake". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted October 17, 2019 #50 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said: He complained that laws are being “used as a battering ram to break down traditional moral values.” He is taking his stand on what he believes. He has every right and even a duty to stand for what he believes is right for himself and to point out what he sees as responsible for the horrible level of discourse in our nation. No one is required to agree with him but his right to speak is guaranteed just as much as anyone else. Don't you agree? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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