U.S. purchases Israeli Armor shield tech

[RoofGardener]

On 10/19/2019 at 10:01 PM, Gromdor said:

It would be handy in a traditional war, but we really don't fight them anymore.  Threats these days are buried IEDs.  Can't really remember the last time we had to deploy tanks and had them destroyed.

Interesting point. I know that the Iraqi army lost well over a 100 tanks to ISIS, and Saudi has lost about 20 in its fight with Yemen. I'm not aware of ANY tank losses by the USA since the original Iraq war. But then... it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. 

On 10/20/2019 at 2:51 AM, Captain Risky said:

Im not bias. Just stating a fact. The military relationship between the U.S. and Israel is lop-sided. You're free to spin that in whatever way you like. 

 

On 10/20/2019 at 3:30 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

What I don't like about and then's view of it all is, we give Israel x dollars to which they must spend 75% of it in the US, on war weapons. Like this means they don't get it FREE? of course it does, they get their weapons free.

It would just the same thing as the US saying, "Ok, Israel, take $2.5 Billion in war toys, free". Same difference.

So after all these years of this plush agreement, when does Israel give the US free war toys, or the money to buy Israel war goods?

Uh huh. They're a ONE WAY street, THEIR way.

Both of those points are correct, but it's worth remembering that the payments to "Israel" for military equipment serve two hidden agendas... 

1. As a taxpayer-funded subsidy to US weapons manufacturers
2. Back in the 1980's, to prevent Israeli Aircraft Industries from developing their 4th generation fighter/bomber aircraft, the Lavi, which would have competed very strongly against the F16 on international arms markets. 

I'm not saying that the US annual payments where exclusively down to the above, but they paid a considerable factor. In addition, the USSR was absolutely flooding adjacent countries with MiG's and T55/T72's, and the US saw Israel (and Saudi) as being bulwarks against increased Soviet influence in the region, and supplied them accordingly, as part  of their "cold war" with the USSR.   

Edited October 24, 2019 by RoofGardener

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Interesting point. I know that the Iraqi army lost well over a 100 tanks to ISIS, and Saudi has lost about 20 in its fight with Yemen. I'm not aware of ANY tank losses by the USA since the original Iraq war. But then... it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. 

 

Both of those points are correct, but it's worth remembering that the payments to "Israel" for military equipment serve two hidden agendas... 

1. As a taxpayer-funded subsidy to US weapons manufacturers
2. Back in the 1980's, to prevent Israeli Aircraft Industries from developing their 4th generation fighter/bomber aircraft, the Lavi, which would have competed very strongly against the F16 on international arms markets. 

I'm not saying that the US annual payments where exclusively down to the above, but they paid a considerable factor. In addition, the USSR was absolutely flooding adjacent countries with MiG's and T55/T72's, and the US saw Israel (and Saudi) as being bulwarks against increased Soviet influence in the region, and supplied them accordingly, as part  of their "cold war" with the USSR.   

Bolded: again the Lavi was developed with U.S. funds and eventually closed down for the reason you mentioned i.e. F16 sales. What you failed to mention is that the plans and know how was sold to China at a time when the Chinese aerospace industry was struggling to get off the ground. 

[RoofGardener]

55 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Bolded: again the Lavi was developed with U.S. funds and eventually closed down for the reason you mentioned i.e. F16 sales. What you failed to mention is that the plans and know how was sold to China at a time when the Chinese aerospace industry was struggling to get off the ground. 

I don't believe that is true ? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Lavi#China_Question

To quote another source..... "..At any rate, the J-10 is more inspired by the Lavi than an outright clone.."

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-j-10-“vigorous-dragon”-fighter-jet-chinas-own-f-16-thanks-israel-52502

[DarkHunter]

14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Interesting point. I know that the Iraqi army lost well over a 100 tanks to ISIS, and Saudi has lost about 20 in its fight with Yemen. I'm not aware of ANY tank losses by the USA since the original Iraq war. But then... it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. 

By December of 2006, 530 Abrams tanks have been sent back from Iraq to be repaired from damage sustained in Iraq.  A few Abrams tanks were completely lost, dont believe the crew of any Abrams tank died though, but most of the few Abrams destroyed were destroyed by American forces cause it was deemed too dangerous or too time consuming to recover the damaged tank.

As for the risk of RPGs while only a shot into the rear or top of an Abrams was able to destroy the tank, shots into the side were capable of knocking off the tracks if it hit right, the military developed TUSK for the Abrams tank to reduce the effectiveness of RPG attacks.  The risk of RPG attacks only really happened in urban environments were tanks arent particularly effective.  Also some evidence that Russian kornet anti-tank missiles knocked out 2 Abrams tanks during the battle of Najaf.