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XenoFish

Why not prove it?

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Rlyeh

Evidence?  Psychics are fuelled by ignorance and gullibility.  When they try to prove it you get this mess; 

 

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Rlyeh
5 hours ago, Habitat said:

It is certainly arrogant to demand proof when you know it can't be given, and no-one is demanding anything from you. 

Don't make claims you know you can't support.

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Habitat
Just now, Rlyeh said:

Don't make claims you know you can't support.

Oh, I don't know, if I saw a crocodile on the beach this morning, and I can't prove it was there, as the tide has covered the tracks, I shouldn't tell you, when you are about to wade into the water ? :D

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Rlyeh
16 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Oh, I don't know, if I saw a crocodile on the beach this morning, and I can't prove it was there, as the tide has covered the tracks, I shouldn't tell you, when you are about to wade into the water ? :D

You then proceed to say the crocodile is invisible and can fly.

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Timothy
57 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Oh, I don't know, if I saw a crocodile on the beach this morning, and I can't prove it was there, as the tide has covered the tracks, I shouldn't tell you, when you are about to wade into the water ? :D

That’s a stupid argument. 

Normal and logical things known to exist demand a different response than paranormal things which apparently obey no laws and of which there is no evidence. 

You could be a jerk and tell someone that a crocodile was there when it wasn’t, but they’d probably take your word for it, and they’d be fine unless there was a crocodile you were unaware of (which could also very well exist). 

Conversely you could not tell them about a crocodile which you know exists, and they might be in real danger. They also might be fine.

With the paranormal, there’s no assurance of existence. If the paranormal existed (and I’m talking ghosts and paranormal abilities etc.), it would be we’ll documented and the mechanisms behind it would make some sort of sense. In all of human history, this hasn’t happened. And with the claims as they are, it should have. 

Humans are the variable and they are the explanation. The paranormal is a human construct. Much like 

Spoiler

religion. 

 

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, Timothy said:

 

If the paranormal existed (and I’m talking ghosts and paranormal abilities etc.), it would be we’ll documented and the mechanisms behind it would make some sort of sense. In all of human history, this hasn’t happened. And with the claims as they are, it should have. 

I'm afraid this is an assumption. In the realm of the mundane, it would be a safe enough assumption. Clearly, what is reported, cannot all be safely assumed to be mundane. The temptation to fudge it, appears as big a problem for the naysayers, as the paranormal enthusiasts. Sober caution is advised !

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Habitat
1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

You then proceed to say the crocodile is invisible and can fly.

No I don't

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Rlyeh
Just now, Habitat said:

No I don't

Can it communicate by morse code?

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Habitat
40 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Normal and logical things known to exist demand a different response than paranormal things which apparently obey no laws and of which there is no evidence. 

I would be pretty p*ssed if someone close to me witnessed something extraordinary, and didn't tell me because of your bullship "rules" !

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

Can it communicate by morse code?

You go find where I claimed that, it doesn't exist, and you are supposed to be the one sticking to facts ? Wake up to yourself, rabbit.

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Can it communicate by morse code?

parroting that idiot does not become you. I thought better of you.

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Rlyeh
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

parroting that idiot does not become you. I thought better of you.

Perhaps a different kind of code then?

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Habitat
11 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Perhaps a different kind of code then?

I had you pegged as apart from that coterie of scoffing fools

Edited by Habitat

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Timothy
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

I would be pretty p*ssed if someone close to me witnessed something extraordinary, and didn't tell me because of your bullship "rules" !

They can tell you, but it doesn’t make it a real thing. 
You should exercise logic. 

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Horta
2 hours ago, Timothy said:

 

Humans are the variable and they are the explanation. The paranormal is a human construct.

+1.

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joc
7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Don't care about your crystal ball or stupidmeter or 'feelings'. 

What actually connects the paranormal and or supernatural with extra directions at a subatomic scale? Where is the connection? What validates the suggestion? 

The only thing that connects the 'paranormal' and/or 'supernatural' is a commonality of experience in humans that isn't easily explained.  We all experience similar things.  But in reality, Commonality of Experience is the same thing as Familiar Anecdote.  Familiar Anecdote is NOT the same thing as Familiar Result...as you have already noted.  

Once my best friend had a car wreck.  T-boned by a driver passing the line of cars that was stopped because he was making a Left turn.  About the same time this was happening I was sitting in my driveway with a girlfriend and we were talking about that exact same kind of wreck!  

It's a Familiar Anecdote.  Go ahead...explain that!   Well...there is no 'explaining' it.   But more importantly...there is no repeating it!  

But...because it is Familiar means it must be somehow connected to a different reality or dimension?  That's a stretch that can only be made through...Belief!

I have a Crystal Ball.   It's very cool to just look at.  It's very cool to stare at!  It is in the 'staring' at something that causes our deeper subconscious to organize data in our brains to reach a conclusion about a thing.  A 'feeling' is a conclusion based on inconclusive data.  Rambling morning thoughts .... :)

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Liquid Gardens
7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

How do you confirm something for which no detection devices exist yet?

Why would you even think something exists if you can't detect it?  The Higgs Boson is a bad analogy, the existence of that was implied by other things we did know exist and it addressed an outstanding scientific question.  The only question I see that 'the paranormal' answers is 'why do people think the paranormal exists?', not any external phenomenon or scientific question.

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joc
1 hour ago, Timothy said:

They can tell you, but it doesn’t make it a real thing. 
You should exercise logic. 

Logic vs Belief

There are a lot of people who become angry with others for not 'believing' the same as they do.  Religious wars speak volumes to that end.  So..it is no surprise to me when 'believers' who cannot prove their beliefs but are asked to do so become angry.  Just sayin'...

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psyche101
4 hours ago, Habitat said:

Oh, I don't know, if I saw a crocodile on the beach this morning, and I can't prove it was there, as the tide has covered the tracks, I shouldn't tell you, when you are about to wade into the water ? :D

You should have gone up and given it a nice pat. 

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psyche101
49 minutes ago, joc said:

The only thing that connects the 'paranormal' and/or 'supernatural' is a commonality of experience in humans that isn't easily explained.  We all experience similar things.  But in reality, Commonality of Experience is the same thing as Familiar Anecdote.  Familiar Anecdote is NOT the same thing as Familiar Result...as you have already noted.  

Once my best friend had a car wreck.  T-boned by a driver passing the line of cars that was stopped because he was making a Left turn.  About the same time this was happening I was sitting in my driveway with a girlfriend and we were talking about that exact same kind of wreck!  

It's a Familiar Anecdote.  Go ahead...explain that!   Well...there is no 'explaining' it.   But more importantly...there is no repeating it!  

But...because it is Familiar means it must be somehow connected to a different reality or dimension?  That's a stretch that can only be made through...Belief!

I have a Crystal Ball.   It's very cool to just look at.  It's very cool to stare at!  It is in the 'staring' at something that causes our deeper subconscious to organize data in our brains to reach a conclusion about a thing.  A 'feeling' is a conclusion based on inconclusive data.  Rambling morning thoughts .... :)

Exactly. People are the connection. 

I don't know how that isn't obvious to all? 

Edited by psyche101
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eight bits
4 hours ago, Habitat said:

Oh, I don't know, if I saw a crocodile on the beach this morning, and I can't prove it was there, as the tide has covered the tracks, I shouldn't tell you,

A fine illustration of the Hume-Sagan heuristic, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and its corollary, ordinary claims don't. Both Hume's and Sagan's context for offering the advice (the famous phrasing is Sagan's, but the thought was Hume's before Sagan's grandparents were born) was oral testimony, just like in your example. Oral testimony is ordinary evidence, in real life and in more formal settings, too.

Why is your crocodile on the beach an ordinary claim? Because I think you'd know one if you saw one, and I know that crocodiles exist, that people see them sometimes, so why not you? OK, maybe it was actually an alligator (I'm less sure you'd correctly distinguish between them), and it could depend on which beach (but hey, with climate change, more and more previously unusual things are happening every day).

You are competent to give the testimony, nothing in the testimony inspires hard questions like "how is that possible?" or "are there obviously better explanations of what you saw?" or "didn't you tell me a minute ago that you're allergic to beach sand?"

OK, then, please tell me all about the crocodile, especially if I'm looking to go wading in the water, but any other time is good, too.

 

Edited by eight bits
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joc
6 minutes ago, eight bits said:

You are competent to give the testimony, nothing in the testimony inspires hard questions like "how is that possible?" or "are there obviously better explanations of what you saw?"

But wait....just down the beach from where the crocodile was seen....I saw little green people running all over the beach...in and out of the waves...and then suddenly a huge object slowly rose out of the ocean...all the little green people jumped onto it and ....whooooooshhhhh....it vanished into thin air....

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OverSword
9 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Say what?  Are you on a different planet, or from another conversation altogether?

A photo is evidence that someone printed what appears to be a photo.  Photos and videos are easy to fake and easy to misinterpret, and are missing 3 dimensional information.  Eyewitness accounts are demonstrably unreliable and may in fact be complete deliberate falsehoods thru to misinterpretations and false memories, and they are especially weak if the accounts are collected after the event has been publicised.

So, as we always ask, why not simply post a really good example where all the 'evidence' actually points to a non-terrestrial, paranormal being, and let's see how all those videos/photos/accounts:

- correlate
- are actually 'evidentiary'
- point only at your desired conclusion

 

I'll wait.  But start with your very best example.  Good luck with that.

No kidding. My point was that nothing will sway xeno, there will never be absolute proof so what’s the point in this thread?

Xeno has never said “who knows?” or seemed to think there was even a possibility so If you hadn’t been keeping up in s different thread maybe that’s not very clear.. 

But thanks for explaining things to me.  :rolleyes:

Edit: just went back and read my post. It was clear. Read

Edited by OverSword
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XenoFish

I no longer care what becomes of this thread. No one who claims to have psychic gifts will step forward and change our view of psychology, neurology, biology, and physic by proving what they claim can do. 

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OverSword
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I no longer care what becomes of this thread. No one who claims to have psychic gifts will step forward and change our view of psychology, neurology, biology, and physic by proving what they claim can do. 

Run a remote viewing experiment. Put something in a box give out your coordinates and see if anyone can describe the contents 

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