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RoofGardener

39 bodies found in refrigerated lorry

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Dumbledore the Awesome
10 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

Would you rather have their deaths account for nothing?  Just say 'what a pity' and carry on?  If we want to make sure those people did not die in vain, then their deaths should lead to change and since parliament is currently in a heated argument about securing our borders post Brexit, and bickering about minor inconveniences with customs checks, then today's tragic news should make them all wake up and realize that actual lives are at risk.  So a soft border proposal should be stamped out immediately in order to make sure tragic events like that do not occur again.  Every lorry should be inspected without exception.  I watch the lorries at Belfast docks queuing up and waiting for hours.  Plenty of time to have each lorry inspected.  I watch the drivers napping and walking down to the nearby shops for a bite to eat.  Who knows how many people could be hiding in them.  Change will have to come sooner or later, preferably sooner, and it seems right that the Brexit proposals should reflect that commitment to increase security at all entry ports.  Having a border down the Irish sea might just be the safest option so long as it guarantees that lorries will be thoroughly checked.

 

 

It would still have made absolutely no difference in this case, as it probably wouldn't in the great majority of cases (though this one is certainly exceptional), as you'd be dead within a very few minutes of being shoved into a refrigerated (and refrigerated doesn't just mean like your fridge, it means freezer) trailer . That's the ones responsible for murder, the ones who lured them into stowing away promising them that they'd be able to get loads of benefits or whatever once they were in the UK.

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome
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Dumbledore the Awesome

And besides, they already do check for stowaways on vehicles travelling to the Uk; they have scanners that detect heat and possibly breath and whatever at ports and at the Channel Tunnel, but that's obviously only any use if stowaways are alive. It would be utterly impossible to expect that every single trailer and every single container was opened so immigration officers could actually go inside and have a good search round, and besides, would violate customs seals, as I said earlier. 

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome
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Still Waters

More info coming to light.

Quote

The 39 people found dead in a lorry trailer in Essex were Chinese nationals, Essex police have confirmed.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/essex-lorry-deaths-39-victims-were-chinese-nationals

 

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stevewinn

Chinese, what on earth are Chinese doing coming to the UK in a such a fashion. (illegal) cockle pickers?

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RoofGardener
40 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Chinese, what on earth are Chinese doing coming to the UK in a such a fashion. (illegal) cockle pickers?

It's terrible to have travelled almost literally halfway around the world, only to die in a lorry in Zeebrugge. :(  

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Aaron2016
On 10/24/2019 at 12:34 PM, stevewinn said:

Chinese, what on earth are Chinese doing coming to the UK in a such a fashion. (illegal) cockle pickers?

Our local Chinese takeaway was closed because the staff turned out to be here illegally.  My guess is the victims were being trafficked and exploited as cheap labour.

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Setton
23 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

Our local Chinese takeaway was closed because the staff turned out to be here illegally.  My guess is the victims were being trafficked and exploited as cheap labour.

So remind me, how would leaving the EU have stopped 39 Chinese nationals from dying..? 

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Aaron2016
1 hour ago, Setton said:

So remind me, how would leaving the EU have stopped 39 Chinese nationals from dying..? 

A hard Brexit would make illegal migration far less appealing with tougher restrictions and less EU safety nets to fold back on.  In other words, yes Brexit does make it less appealing for illegal migrants to enter, with potentially tougher sentences for anyone transporting them in, and less safety nets for the migrants themselves.  Guarantees under the European Union would no longer be there.  The ACH website which helps refugees in the UK made the following statements about Brexit.

'The UK will be leaving the Common European Asylum System.'  Regarding the number of refugees coming in -  'After Brexit, those figures are likely to go down.'  They discuss the potential government changes and said there could be a  - 'Democratic mandate for more restrictive asylum policies, and therefore potentially fewer refugees being allowed into the UK.'

If we had left on 29th March then there is a possibility (regardless of how big or small that possibility is) that the victims would be alive, because the journey possibly would never have been attempted under a hard Brexit Britain.  Since we can't confirm or deny what the drivers, smugglers, and migrants would have done, we can only speculate that there was a high chance probability that things would be different if we were already out of the EU. 

 

Edited by Aaron2016
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Desertrat56

@Aaron2016 I think you don't understand the real issue.  This kind of smuggling people and selling people has nothing to do with whether britian stays with the EU or not.  A "Hard Brexit" means nothing in this instance.  There will still be people smuggled into the UK by boat and lorry, the conditions in which they travel will just be more harsh.  There is a lot of tough restrictions in other countries (including the U.S. and Australia) but people are still smuggled in to those countries.  You just don't understand why they are coming, some are slaves and some are very desperate.

Edited by Desertrat56

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Aaron2016
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

@Aaron2016 I think you don't understand the real issue.  This kind of smuggling people and selling people has nothing to do with whether britian stays with the EU or not.  A "Hard Brexit" means nothing in this instance.  There will still be people smuggled into the UK by boat and lorry, the conditions in which they travel will just be more harsh.  There is a lot of tough restrictions in other countries (including the U.S. and Australia) but people are still smuggled in to those countries.  You just don't understand why they are coming, some are slaves and some are very desperate.

I do understand.  EU membership means the smugglers have the means, motive, and opportunity.  The victims as well.  A hard brexit could potentially reduce all three.  If the risk of being stopped and searched is increased, and sentences are tougher under a post-Brexit UK law without any EU red tape or safety nets then the smugglers potentially would not be willing to take the risk anymore, and they would charge more money per person which would discourage the victims to pay the higher amount, and without the freedoms and protections of the EU the victims would have less interest in making the journey to Britain and would opt for another country like Germany or France.

 

The previous gang that was jailed for smuggling Vietnamese immigrants into Britain.

tps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6756095/Gang-smuggled-Vietnamese-illegal-immigrants-Britain-jailed-total-27-years.html

 

 

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Still Waters
Quote

Police question four suspects

It is believed a number of the people were from Vietnam, despite Essex Police initially saying the victims were Chinese nationals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50191627

 

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Still Waters

The lorry driver has been charged.

Quote

A lorry driver has been charged with the manslaughter of 39 people found dead inside a refrigerated trailer.

Maurice Robinson, 25, was arrested after the bodies of 31 men and eight women were found in Grays on Wednesday.

He is further charged with people trafficking, immigration and money laundering offences, Essex Police said.

Mr Robinson, of Laurel Drive, Craigavon, Northern Ireland, is due before Chelmsford Magistrates' Court on Monday.

Three others, a man and a woman, both 38, from Warrington, Cheshire, and a 48-year-old man from Northern Ireland remain in police custody.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50196265

 

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Still Waters

In today's news:

Quote

Vietnamese police have arrested eight people over the deaths of 39 people found inside a lorry trailer in Essex last month.

Mr Cau said the tragedy was being treated as a smuggling incident rather than a case of people trafficking.

https://news.sky.com/story/lorry-deaths-eight-people-arrested-in-vietnam-11853841

 

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RoofGardener
11 minutes ago, Still Waters said:

In today's news:

....Mr Cau said the tragedy was being treated as a smuggling incident rather than a case of people trafficking....

A smuggling incident ?????? 

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